Series I spark plugs - Anyone know how to do it?

Dude...just stand back about 5 feet and start yelling at it for 5 minutes...its wont do diddley to help you remove the plugs but it will make you feel better...

ibmoses wrote:

You should also be wary of the spark plug wires. The ends/boots tend to pull off when removing them.

Bert

X2 if you want to do it right, I would change the plug wires as well.

No money for wires at the moment. GPS for my birthday comes first.

That GPS won't get you anywhere if you wreck a few wires when you pull them off. Originals tend to be pretty hard to pull if they haven't been off for a loooong time. But that's up to you.

Looks to me like you should drive to Queens and let Oldsman105 show you how to get this accomplished. You really don't have to see the plugs to change them.

I know it's generally not a good idea to pull the wires a lot, but I got at least 6-8 plug changes out of mine before they failed at 115k miles. 100k is probably the limit for wires being reliable, imo. Doesn't matter how good they look, they can be bad. You'll know it when hesitation is felt in the higher RPMs.

...and after you are done yelling, here are some tips:

1) I dont' know anybody who trusts a jack with their life. They use ramps or jackstands, abour $15 from AutoZone or Walmart. For replacing the plugs on my RIv ('98) I need neither.

2) From Sears or another parts store, you may want a "wobble extension" for your ratchet wrench. Connect the wobbler to the spark plug socket, then connect an appropriate (3" or 6" ) extension bar to the wobbler. Connect the ratchet head to the extension bar and wha-la - Happy Wrenching.

Yes you can pay someone to do it but if you approach along the lines of the instructions on this forum you will get it done. And soon after you will probably conclude that it is a 'money for nothing' job and you will be SO glad you did it yourself. The flat rate time that you would be charged, I am told, assumes that the mechanic disconnects a motor mount and moves the engine or some darn thing, and in practice I do not think any experienced mechanic does that replacing the plugs on this model car. My understanding is that by and large they use the approach in #2 above.

Given that you don't (yet) have all the tools, why not take Oldsman up on his offer - ride into Queens (it only SEEMS far - it's NOT far) and not only learn how to swap those plugs but also probably much more about what tools you need to be familiar with going forward.

Best,

Albertj

Good advice, Albert. Safety is #1. After you drop a car on its front disc rotor (at night, in the rain), trying to work with only a jack for support (btw, severing the cord to your spotlight), you'll not do it again. One of many dumb things I'm not too proud of - only because I was in a hurry, or thought I didn't need a jack stand because I wasn't actually under the car.

The rear plugs are easiest done from underneath. Get some ramps and pull the car up, then you can roll underneath on your creeper, or slide on a piece of cardboard (poor mans creeper), reach up next to the exhaust pipe and feel around for the plugs.

Oldsman, I'd visit ya, but I can't drive in the 5 buroughs for another year and a month.

OOOH! I forgot about that.

I think the point is that you can change the rear plugs without actually seeing them, using a reasonable set of tools.

Let's start simple. Do you have a socket wrench set?

Albertj

if you want me to i can take a picture of the rear spark plugs its basically where the rear manifold is but you will definitly need a set of ramps for the series I but what i do to get to the rear is put an extension on the socket wrench if you have one along with the spark plug socket. i would not take it to a shop the first time i took it to a shop and didnt feel like doing on my own they wanted 100+.

albertj wrote:

Reaching the rear spark plugs - what works for me (the usual disclaimers apply):

- use a ratchet wrench with a 'wobble extension' - the wobble looks like a 3/8" to 3/8" adapter with a long-ish male part that looks a little like a miniature root beer barrel candy. Most likely a 'univeral joint' type extension will be too big...
- use one or another extension bar with the wobble extension as needed
- before starting to remove plugs, use air compressor with blow gun fitting to blow dirt out of spark plug holes. A wet/dry vac used as a blower will work, too, especially if you have a nozzle (like a crevice nozzle) you use as a concentrator to skinny down the air stream. Point is to blow the dirt out of those cavities before you pull the plugs because you can't really see in.

Then in removing/replacing plugs...

- connect the spark plug socket to the wobble extension and a long-enough extension bar, withthe wrench off. Call this 'the contraption'
- disconnect the spark plug wire from the plug - a plastic or metal spark plug wire puller from a parts store will help to make sure you don't break the wire off in the connector
- fish the contraption into the spark plug cavity and get it onto the plug. Kind of have to push and turn. Once it is seated on the plug...
- NOW set the ratchet wrench to 'loosen' and attach it to the contraption, then unscrew the plug. You may not have but one click on the ratchet for loosening. Once the plug is loose you may need to use your fingers as a clutch to keep from just turning the plug back and forth instead of actually removing it. Once the plug is loose you may want to remove the ratchet wrench from the contraption and turn it out with your fingers.
- once the plug is loose, of course, pull it out of the well with the contraption. You will most likely have to remove the wrench to do this.

Inserting plugs is the reverse of removal, sort of. Here are some pointers:

- coat the OUTSIDE of the plug insulator with a light film of dielectric tune-up grease (the silicone stuff) so it slides out of the spark plug socket easier. Don't need much...
- use a dab of 'anti seize,' preferably the hi temp copper kind but silver is OK, on the threads of the plug. A dab maybe the size of a lentil or so.
- put the plug into the contraption, then put the contraption into the plug well so the plug goes into the hole in the head. When you have the plug in the hole turn the contraption backwards as if removing the plug, while pressing in on it somewhat, until you feel/hear it click. That way you know the threads are mated up and you wont cross thread the sucker.
- NOW turn the contraption (preferably use fingers not wrench) to tighten the plug. if the threads are not galled at all you'll be able to get the plug pretty much all the way in without the wrench. This also assures you are not cross threading the plug, because (in my experience) you can't get a good enough grip on the contraption with your fingers to cross thread the plug if you're not using the wrench! Get it in as far as you can.
- NOW attach the wrench to the contraption and finish tightening the plug. Remember they don't have to be but so tight, and these are aluminum threads in the head so don't get happy on the wrench or you'll strip the suckers especially since you already have them pretty much all the way in
- when the plug is tightened remove the wrench from the contraption then remove the contraption from the plug. You may need a (needlenose) plier to get the contraption and/or the plug socket out of the well, if the socket is sticking to the plug for some reason. Before you do that try pulling the contraption with your fingers while twisting it in the direction of tightening a bit to bind the extension bar and wobble extension together - if you put dielectric grease on the plug this should work.

All the best

Albertj

Them's some nice directions and pointers.

Bert:tavis:

Good advice, Albert. I would add that I don't insert the plug using the socket, but start them with my fingers instead. This is another way to ensure no threads get stripped.

And again, I use a small torque wrench to tighten my plugs to 15 lb-ft. Not absolutely necessary, but it's a consistent method if you have that tool.

I was gonna ask you guys how to get the big black rubbery thing off the plugs, but I won't be doing it anyway. I hate to disappoint you guys, but there's no way I can reach the rear plugs. I tried, and there's no opening big enough for a human hand. I went at it for 15 minutes trying to find a way in, and then when I tried to get the rubber thing off the front ones and couldn't budge it, I decided there's no way I can move my hand around, even if I got it in, enough to get the plug out. I'll wait until I have a good job going, then I'll buy some ramps. Thanks for your help, and sorry for letting you guys down.

IBx1 wrote:

I hate to disappoint you guys, but there's no way I can reach the rear plugs. I tried, and there's no opening big enough for a human hand.

There's your problem....we use monkey hands...

Chicken wrote:

IBx1 wrote:

I hate to disappoint you guys, but there's no way I can reach the rear plugs. I tried, and there's no opening big enough for a human hand.

There's your problem....we use monkey hands...

Ya, when you cut there arms off , make sure you leave some overlapping tendons, easier to pull them and make the fingers move ! Pretty sick I guess, sorry.

good point, Jim...I missed that step....someone do a write-up on the proper monkey hand/arm sparkplug removal please...I know you need fire and visegrips but after that my memory fails me....

I think your approach is OK this time, Ilan. I looked at the SUNY-WCC and could not find an auto repair course. I was thnking that a short course might be helpful - would not help you right this minute, rather it would help you get a sense of how to approach this and other problems. I could not find such a course, but I hpe you do and you take it.

As for your plugs now - you probably could do them by feel from under the car by reaching up with the wrench around the downpipe. Hope you get a chnace to find someone (soon) that will 'show you the ropes' for working on the Riv.

Albertj

changing them the 95 is gonna suck.... but imma tackle it pretty soon!

Well, it's been a good year since my last frusturation with spark plugs, but I think I'm about ready to give it a shot! I have a set of ramps that I just used to change my oil(very easy), and I think I'll get under my car later and see if I can find the rear plugs. I'll let you guys know how it goes, and the tools and stuff I'll need should be in this thread already.

Stand by to help though, haha!

I have done this a couple of times. I use some 2x10 ramps I made out of treated wood. They are storeable and raise the car about 6 inches. They are good for changing the oil. I just place them and drive on. I leave them in place until I leave the next day and store them on the side of the garage after I drive out.
The 95 Riv has heater hoses wrapped in heat reflecting foil on the rear joining to the firewall. I lay on the floor and reach up by the exhaust pipe and Pop the wires off one at a time. They have a metal heat shield that you can grab. On my particular car, I had a bad miss that was coming from the middle wire which was cracked due to the exhaust heat back there. Get some silicone gel and rub a little around the new plug connector and they will come off easier next time. Good luck.

IBx1 wrote:

I could barely get enough room to pull on the front ones either.

im sorry but theres no way thats true, i could have my little brother that doesnt know squat about cars take at least the front 3 out if not all 6. what was "in the way"?

I could reach the spark plugs in the front but wouldn't have space to pull them without slicing my arms open and whacking my knuckles on the radiator.

IBx1 wrote:

Tyler, I could reach the spark plugs in the front but wouldn't have space to pull them without slicing my arms open and whacking my knuckles on the radiator.

i understand you dont have the space to park a bus in there but it really cant be THAT close to not even be able to get a wrench in there, the 3800s are the easiest plugs ive ever changed.

IBx1 wrote:

That Camaro is clean as hell! I like the side exhaust too. Tyler, I could reach the spark plugs in the front but wouldn't have space to pull them without slicing my arms open and whacking my knuckles on the radiator.

You must have the biggest arms in the world, and you belong in the Guinness Book of Records.