Name : Codith Age : 37 Location : Villa Park, IL Joined : 2007-02-08Post Count : 3671 Merit : 140
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:34 pm
robotennis61 wrote:
i like the idea of putting a cherry bomb in place of the resonator followed by hookers in place of the stock mufflers. I've heard this setup works good. anybody out there who can confirm this?
On that whole setup, I don't know but I can tell you I noticed a minimal change with adding a 4"x18" body 3" glasspack so I guess don't expect that glasspack to do much. Of course the smaller the pipe / bigger the body (especially longer), the more the glasspack can attenuate. Keeping the system 2.5" would probably make that a good setup. 3" might be slightly on the loud side, with that kind of mufflers - that I can tell you.
IBx1 Expert
Name : ILAN Age : 33 Location : College Station, TX Joined : 2007-12-30Post Count : 4304 Merit : 69
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:59 pm
It does seem that a big turbo makes a 3800 sound like an Infiniti V6.
robotennis61 Guru
Name : robotennis Age : 63 Location : las vegas Joined : 2007-12-17Post Count : 5562 Merit : 143
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:10 pm
a nice sounding stock exhaust setup for a v-6 that i heard is the hyundai santa fe. it sounds really good! i want one just like that
L67 Aficionado
Name : Matt Joined : 2007-06-05Post Count : 1125 Merit : 37
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:11 pm
robotennis61 wrote:
a nice sounding stock exhaust setup for a v-6 that i heard is the hyundai santa fe. it sounds really good! i want one just like that
1st step is removing your 90* V6
robotennis61 Guru
Name : robotennis Age : 63 Location : las vegas Joined : 2007-12-17Post Count : 5562 Merit : 143
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:14 pm
i hear ya my man i hear ya. but honestly the hyundai exhaust note sounds like a baby v-8! i understand its the entire system but ..i wonder if its not all in the muffler? never heard one sound so burbly
turtleman Expert
Name : Codith Age : 37 Location : Villa Park, IL Joined : 2007-02-08Post Count : 3671 Merit : 140
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:46 pm
I was uncertain about fitment of this before so I had cast it out as an option but after some more careful measurement, I'm definitely leaning towards using it. This is the muffler.. http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/shopexd.asp?zone=main&id=8245 It might be hard to picture, but this thing is a BEAST of a muffler. The body of it is roughly a yard in length and 7" round - 3" pipe diameter. This is to take place of the upstream muffler as you can see in the diagram I made. It will occupy just about all of the longitudinal area that the stock cat and resonator would be. The rest of the plan is the same. With the measurements, I found that this large muffler would sit a little on the low side but not even as low as the lower swoop of the downpipe that no one has any clearance trouble with. In many ways, this muffler design and dimensions should be a very choice answer to the drone tendancy of this motor.
Tomorrow, I'm going to call tech at magnaflow just to ask them what this muffler should handle for power (flow) needs. I'm not worried about the straight through muffler I'll use at the back but I want to at least get an opinion from the people who sell this muffler about my power needs. After all, my goal is to have a quiet system that supports my current and future power needs and looks nice and finished.
97 park ave Addict
Name : Tyler Age : 33 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:09 pm
turtleman wrote:
L67 wrote:
I think the unequal length primaries of the FWD variants make it worse too. Here's a Holden L67 video i found where the exhaust sounds pretty good...I wonder how he did it. (Revving at the end)
I've read that the length of the header primaries being equal doesn't matter much for power. I don't really know if it does for sound but I have a feeling it doesn't matter too much either.
This is a mystery to me. I've seen more videos of those kind of L67 powered cars that sound like this but as well I've seen just as many that sound like our cars. Is there some huge trick that I'm missing here? For the record, I haven't heard any US model FWD L67's that sound like that at all. The only way to make them sound really nice that I know of is a large turbo.
its not the length of the primaries that changes the sound, its the length and routing of the manifolds. on a 90* 3800 the front manifold takes a 180* turn through the crossover, while the rear manifold is a straight shot out of the head with no angles. take an inline 3800 and run the drivers side manifold around to the passenger fender behind the engine along with having the passenger side manifold come straight out to the passenger fender also, and it will sound exactly like our 90* 3800s. the reason those holden 3800s sound so good is because of the equal length and equal angled headers that meet at the same point. the reason a 90* 3800 with a turbo sounds good is because of the same theory, with a turbo you still run equal length/equal angled manifolds to mate with the turbo, then from the turbo you have your downpipe and exhaust.
just my .02
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:14 pm
Quote :
take an inline 3800 and run the drivers side manifold around to the passenger fender behind the engine along with having the passenger side manifold come straight out to the passenger fender also, and it will sound exactly like our 90* 3800s.
I find this very hard to believe. Inline 6s sound totally different (better) than 90º V-6s. Not surprisingly, 60º V-6s have a distinct sound, and 15º V-6s (VR6) sound totally awesome.
I think the reason a turbo sounds so good on a 90º V-6 is that it acts like a muffler, blocking or absorbing a lot of the bad stuff that our ears don't like.
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
L67 Aficionado
Name : Matt Joined : 2007-06-05Post Count : 1125 Merit : 37
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:17 pm
97 park ave wrote:
turtleman wrote:
L67 wrote:
I think the unequal length primaries of the FWD variants make it worse too. Here's a Holden L67 video i found where the exhaust sounds pretty good...I wonder how he did it. (Revving at the end)
I've read that the length of the header primaries being equal doesn't matter much for power. I don't really know if it does for sound but I have a feeling it doesn't matter too much either.
This is a mystery to me. I've seen more videos of those kind of L67 powered cars that sound like this but as well I've seen just as many that sound like our cars. Is there some huge trick that I'm missing here? For the record, I haven't heard any US model FWD L67's that sound like that at all. The only way to make them sound really nice that I know of is a large turbo.
its not the length of the primaries that changes the sound, its the length and routing of the manifolds. on a 90* 3800 the front manifold takes a 180* turn through the crossover, while the rear manifold is a straight shot out of the head with no angles. take an inline 3800 and run the drivers side manifold around to the passenger fender behind the engine along with having the passenger side manifold come straight out to the passenger fender also, and it will sound exactly like our 90* 3800s. the reason those holden 3800s sound so good is because of the equal length and equal angled headers that meet at the same point. the reason a 90* 3800 with a turbo sounds good is because of the same theory, with a turbo you still run equal length/equal angled manifolds to mate with the turbo, then from the turbo you have your downpipe and exhaust.
just my .02
That's what i was trying to say with the unequal length primaries comment, since the front bank has a lot more travel distance than the rear. I suppose i shouldve mentioned the crossover length included with the manifold.
97 park ave Addict
Name : Tyler Age : 33 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:22 pm
AA wrote:
Quote :
take an inline 3800 and run the drivers side manifold around to the passenger fender behind the engine along with having the passenger side manifold come straight out to the passenger fender also, and it will sound exactly like our 90* 3800s.
I find this very hard to believe. Inline 6s sound totally different (better) than 90º V-6s. Not surprisingly, 60º V-6s have a distinct sound, and 15º V-6s (VR6) sound totally awesome.
I think the reason a turbo sounds so good on a 90º V-6 is that it acts like a muffler, blocking or absorbing a lot of the bad stuff that our ears don't like.
the inline 3800 and 90* 3800 are basically the same engine, the L67 in the holdens are the EXACT L67s that are in any 90* L67 car. im telling you its all in the length/angle of the manifolds. ill draw you a picture to help you better understand my point of view.
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:30 pm
Please do. I don't understand what you mean when you say "inline 3800 and 90* 3800 are basically the same engine".
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
L67 Aficionado
Name : Matt Joined : 2007-06-05Post Count : 1125 Merit : 37
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:34 pm
AA wrote:
Please do. I don't understand what you mean when you say "inline 3800 and 90* 3800 are basically the same engine".
I don't even know what an inline 3800 is.
I think he means RWD, and is confusing our 90* talk as meaning a 90* rotation in the engine bay to achieve a transverse engine setup, when we're really talking about cylinder bank angle.
97 park ave Addict
Name : Tyler Age : 33 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:42 pm
L67 wrote:
AA wrote:
Please do. I don't understand what you mean when you say "inline 3800 and 90* 3800 are basically the same engine".
I don't even know what an inline 3800 is.
I think he means RWD, and is confusing our 90* talk as meaning a 90* rotation in the engine bay to achieve a transverse engine setup, when we're really talking about cylinder bank angle.
correct, when i said inline i meant as it is in-line with the drivetrain (RWD), and 90* being 90* in the engine bay, sorry for the confusion. here is a quick pic i drew in paint, as you can see the 2 with the equal length manifolds (turbo 90* L67/ Holden L67) are the 2 that sound really good. then look at the holden L67 with our 90* exhaust setup, it looks like a dumb idea, hence our raspy exhaust sound created by our long angled front manifold and our rear short straight manifold.
Snowdog Addict
Name : Timo Age : 38 Location : Finland Joined : 2008-10-04Post Count : 732 Merit : 24
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:28 pm
well that explanes alot.
So.. what gm cars came from factory whit rwd and a L67 on it? I saw one 2001 camaro for sell and there was writen that it had a v6 3800....they have a L67? if they do would this gearbox go on rivs engine 1:1?
L67 Aficionado
Name : Matt Joined : 2007-06-05Post Count : 1125 Merit : 37
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:33 pm
Snowdog wrote:
well that explanes alot.
So.. what gm cars came from factory whit rwd and a L67 on it? I saw one 2001 camaro for sell and there was writen that it had a v6 3800....they have a L67? if they do would this gearbox go on rivs engine 1:1?
Camaros came with the L36 (NA 3800) only, the L67 was not offered. The RWD L67 was only offered in select Holden models not offered in the US.
Snowdog Addict
Name : Timo Age : 38 Location : Finland Joined : 2008-10-04Post Count : 732 Merit : 24
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:51 pm
but L36 is just a N/A series II??? so it actualy has the same block as the L67 am i right?
L67 Aficionado
Name : Matt Joined : 2007-06-05Post Count : 1125 Merit : 37
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:00 pm
Snowdog wrote:
but L36 is just a N/A series II??? so it actualy has the same block as the L67 am i right?
Yes. Top swapping a Camaro has proven difficult with the TB location so close to the firewall, it involves trimming back the firewall as well as a custom induction setup. Most people just go turbo. It may have been part of the reason that the L67 was never offered.
Last edited by L67 on Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
97 park ave Addict
Name : Tyler Age : 33 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:00 pm
Snowdog wrote:
but L36 is just a N/A series II??? so it actualy has the same block as the L67 am i right?
L36 is N/A higher compression L67
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:01 pm
'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles ^^^ SOLD ^^^
Snowdog Addict
Name : Timo Age : 38 Location : Finland Joined : 2008-10-04Post Count : 732 Merit : 24
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:10 pm
just checked wiki. it showed that holden L36 came whit 4 auto and 5 manual gearbox :O so there would be a chance to make a riv rwd just by polting on one of those gearboxes? + holdens axels. Damn if i would just have the monney for the gearbox and axel! i defendly got time and skills for it. a rwd riv woudl be perfect and it would sound then whit straight headers much better!
weard that noone has ever made a rwd, bonneville or riviera?
Rickw Guru
Name : Rick Location : Lancaster, MA Joined : 2008-09-13Post Count : 6282 Merit : 119
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:14 pm
Timo, You have more access to a used Holden for parts where you are than we do. We don't see Holden's over here.
Snowdog Addict
Name : Timo Age : 38 Location : Finland Joined : 2008-10-04Post Count : 732 Merit : 24
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:25 pm
it's a right side steering wheel car. And made in australia.
just checked it out. That name actualy is badged on many diferent cars(opel, vauxhal, pontiac, toyota..and so on)
I have never seen or heard of it before. I have a friend who imports japanese 'muscel' cars/engines/gearboxes. will just ask from him what this thing costs just as curiosety.
turtleman Expert
Name : Codith Age : 37 Location : Villa Park, IL Joined : 2007-02-08Post Count : 3671 Merit : 140
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:46 pm
L67 wrote:
Snowdog wrote:
well that explanes alot.
So.. what gm cars came from factory whit rwd and a L67 on it? I saw one 2001 camaro for sell and there was writen that it had a v6 3800....they have a L67? if they do would this gearbox go on rivs engine 1:1?
Camaros came with the L36 (NA 3800) only, the L67 was not offered. The RWD L67 was only offered in select Holden models not offered in the US.
I don't know what the L36 camaros' exhaust manifolds and crossover looks like but all the videos I've heard of those camaros all sound like the transverse versions we got.
turtleman Expert
Name : Codith Age : 37 Location : Villa Park, IL Joined : 2007-02-08Post Count : 3671 Merit : 140
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:50 pm
New exhaust question: what is a good source for me to get 3" mandrel bent pipe for exhaust. I need some s-bends or elbows of 45 degrees or less. I would pay some more for stainless if available but mainly just looking for anything. Flowmaster part# 15907 is about right for the s-bend but I don't need 10 of them for over $100.
Rickw Guru
Name : Rick Location : Lancaster, MA Joined : 2008-09-13Post Count : 6282 Merit : 119
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:54 pm
I found a shop close to me that does a lot of Ricer work and has a dyno along with guys that can TIG weld Stainless. They keep a lot of stuff in stock that they will sell or do the work for you. They also have a tubing bender. Might want to look at the ricer shops.
Last edited by Rickw on Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:22 pm; edited 1 time in total