Spring mod: top work

Ok, just needing a checklist for this mod before I order parts. I dont know of a detailed writeup. I need to replace my forever leaking LIM gasket, and while Im at it, throw on a ported supercharger.

LIM gasket
Throttle gasket (never replaced)
SC O-rings
SC oil
Ported SC housing
SC gasket
?????? What else?

What about fuel injector o-rings? Must the fuel rail/injectors come out to do this project. I'd prefer to save the $50 rings I bought a while back until I do the injector upgrade.

Also, where should I order from? I wanted to get the inlet and outlet ported with the EGR hole filled. Any reason I should only get one side ported? I wanna do the inlet because I might need to upgrade the throttle body sometime in the future. Staying with stock LIM.

ZZP quote: But they dont have coolant o-rings

Ported M90 Supercharger
VIN :
Year of your car:'97
Core charge:Case only core charge
Option 1:Inlet/Outlet work, EGR hole fill
Option 2:7 oz of GM s/c oil $585.00 $585.00
Lower intake O-rings
VIN : $4.99 $4.99
Supercharger gaskets
VIN :
Model:Garlock L67 $11.99 $11.99
Intake gasket
VIN :
Model:Aluminum $49.99 $49.99
Throttle body gaskets
VIN :
Model:Rubber reuseable L67 $14.99 $14.99
Sub Total: $666.96

WBS quote: and they will actually accept my core so I get $100 back hopefully

Ported Supercharger Housings - New Lower Pricing!
- Core I will send in my supercharger housing later
- Options VS3 (Machined Outlet & Ported/ Polished Inlet)
$359.99
Supercharger Gasket
- Engine L67
$8.99
Throttle Body Gasket
- Engine 3800 - Supercharged
$6.99
GM Supercharger Oil (4oz)
$13.98
Lower Intake Manifold Gasket Set
- Gasket Material Upgrade to Aluminum Gaskets (15+PSI)
$49.99


Sub-Total: $439.94

ZZP seems to have the better gaskets all around while WBS has the porting special.

Intense:

Code Product Quantity Price/Ea. Total
GMG-T67 Throttle Body Gasket (L67) $6.99
GMG-S67 Supercharger Gasket (L67) $9.99
GMG-SCO Supercharger O-ring Seals, Pair (L67) $9.99
GMG-I67 Lower Intake Gaskets (L67/L32) $49.99
INT-PSC-67x INTENSE™ Ported Gen 3 M90 Supercharger Housing $199.99
INT-PSC-Core: INT-PSC-Core_Paid $175.00
INT-PSC-67x: INT-PSC-672 $250.00
INT-SCO INTENSE™ Supercharger Oil (8oz) $9.99
Total: $711.94

Personally I find local parts stores to be cheaper on some items. What parts stores do you have?

SC gasket: Fel pro comes with the o rings.
TB gasket
Coolant elbows

You won't find the LIM gaskets/SC Oil much lower cost than INTENSE

You want the GM Red gasket maker for the SC to reseal it and keep the oil from leaking. GM PTFE pipe sealant to add to the LIM bolts into the heads to keep any seaping from occuring.

You want a couple cans of TB cleaner for the TB only and a can or two of brake cleaner to wipe all surfaces free of oil etc before laying the gasket on them. Gasket scraper.

Let's not forget the fresh coolant, possible thermostat and after the engine has run for 3 minutes..a fresh oil change and filter to remove any debris that may have gotten into the motor.

On a personal note, I like to clean or degrease a dirty motor before working on it.

According to GM, fuel injector O-rings should be replaced whenever you remove the injectors. You'll most likely have them out for this job.

But if you're planning to do new injectors anyway, I'd just save the new rings until that time. Hopefully you will do them sooner than later.

i thought zzp took core s/c's from 96+ riv's? i thnk the 98+ housings only aply to GTP's and other w-bodys.
and why are you not porting the LIM too? i know money is a factor, but i woudl hate to do the work and then get a larger TB and go, wow i really wish i ported the LIM so i can make full use of the outlet port zzp has a gen 5 LIM for $125 which i think is baisicly the same as the L67's only with a larger opening.

btw thanks for getting some of the prices going on these mods. it makes it much easier to determin what i can/cant afford when i get my tax return back.

X2 on the coolant elbow, even if you dont crack it, it will be brittle after 10yrs. I RTV'd mine in because I didnt trust the cornball o-rings.

BillBoost37 wrote:

Personally I find local parts stores to be cheaper on some items. What parts stores do you have?

SC gasket: Fel pro comes with the o rings.
TB gasket
Coolant elbows

You won't find the LIM gaskets/SC Oil much lower cost than INTENSE

You want the GM Red gasket maker for the SC to reseal it and keep the oil from leaking. GM PTFE pipe sealant to add to the LIM bolts into the heads to keep any seaping from occuring.


.

Have basically Autozones around here. An O'reilly's here and there.

Didn't think of the coolant elbow. I guess it connects one end to the Supercharger housing and one end into the intake housing? Do I need more than one? It says upper and lower. Replace both?

I already have some of the GM gasket maker from when I did my SC oil change a year or two ago.

Mr.Riviera wrote:

and why are you not porting the LIM too? i know money is a factor, but i woudl hate to do the work and then get a larger TB and go, wow i really wish i ported the LIM so i can make full use of the outlet port zzp has a gen 5 LIM for $125 which i think is baisicly the same as the L67's only with a larger opening.

btw thanks for getting some of the prices going on these mods. it makes it much easier to determin what i can/cant afford when i get my tax return back.

I wasnt gonna do the LIM because the INTENSE site says it will actually reduce air flow unless you have the STAGE 2 or 3 heads. I aint ever modding that far. The ZZP site doesnt say anything about that though.


See why my confusion on this job. I got up to a grand to spend but aint trying to waste money either. But I wanna do it right the first time. I dont wanna pull the topend again until I blow a head gasket.

Coolant Elbows: Not sure when the Riv's swapped over, Bonnies got a second elbow at the bottom of the tensioner assembly when GM stopped making a metal elbow as part of the assembly. The elbow below the SC snout actually is in the lower intake and alternator tensioner assembly. Expect that the other elbow whether metal or plastic will need to be looked at. If metal, the o ring will probably need to be replaced (look at the o ring on the second coolant elbow in the package) Dorman has a package with the two elbows that is usally found at Autozone.

Ensure you have the PTFE or use some RTV on the LIM bolts. Oil seepage is a common issue with our motors.

Mr.Riviera wrote:

i thought zzp took core s/c's from 96+ riv's? i thnk the 98+ housings only aply to GTP's and other w-bodys.
and why are you not porting the LIM too? i know money is a factor, but i woudl hate to do the work and then get a larger TB and go, wow i really wish i ported the LIM so i can make full use of the outlet port zzp has a gen 5 LIM for $125 which i think is baisicly the same as the L67's only with a larger opening.
.

the consensus on regalgs is that you dont need to do the LIM porting unless you are going intercooled. If I ever go that route (doubtful), I will just port it then since I gotta pull off the SC to put on an intercooler anyways.

BillBoost37 wrote:

Coolant Elbows: Not sure when the Riv's swapped over, Bonnies got a second elbow at the bottom of the tensioner assembly when GM stopped making a metal elbow as part of the assembly. The elbow below the SC snout actually is in the lower intake and alternator tensioner assembly. Expect that the other elbow whether metal or plastic will need to be looked at. If metal, the o ring will probably need to be replaced (look at the o ring on the second coolant elbow in the package) Dorman has a package with the two elbows that is usally found at Autozone.

Ensure you have the PTFE or use some RTV on the LIM bolts. Oil seepage is a common issue with our motors.

I think my 96' has that lower metal elbow. but i'll buy both coolant elbows so I got the o-ring if I need it.

ordered: ZZP

Products Code Tax(%) Price(ex) Price(inc) Total(ex) Total(inc)
1xCoolant elbows
Model:Upper and Lower
VIN: GA27 0.00 $9.99 $9.99 $9.99 $9.99
1xLower intake O-rings
VIN: GA13 0.00 $4.99 $4.99 $4.99 $4.99
1xSupercharger gaskets
Model:Garlock L67
VIN: GA14 0.00 $11.99 $11.99 $11.99 $11.99
1xIntake gasket
Model:Aluminum
VIN: GA06 0.00 $49.99 $49.99 $49.99 $49.99
1xThrottle body gaskets
Model:Rubber reuseable L67
VIN: GA15 0.00 $14.99 $14.99 $14.99 $14.99
2xGM S/C Oil
VIN: EB03 0.00 $6.99 $6.99 $13.98 $13.98
Sub-Total: $105.93
Tax: $0.00
UPS(Ground)(1 X 3.60 lbs) (Shipping): $8.71
Total: $114.64

From 72mm stock inlet to:

ZZP's inlet porting open it up to 78mm
WBS inlet porting only opens it up to 75.5mm
INTENSE inlet porting opens it up to 75mm

just FYI

Ordered: WBS

Products Base Final
1 x Ported Supercharger Housings - New Lower Pricing!
Option's
*Core : I will send in my supercharger h
+ $100.00
*Options : VS3 (Machined Outlet & Ported/ P
+ $90.00 $169.99 $359.99
(1 x 13lbs) (Ground): $17.85
Sub-Total: $359.99
Total: $377.84

minus the $100 for my core if I ever return it.

less than $500 before core return. not too bad. lets hope the porting quality is there.

Quick online Autozone hit.

1996 Buick Riviera 3.8L SFI SC OHV
Product Description(s)
TBI Base Gasket $4.99 (TB to SC gasket)
Brand: Felpro
Part Number: 61024

Fuel Injector O-Ring $2.99 X3 = $8.97
Brand: Felpro
Part Number: ES70599

Intake Plenum Gasket $9.49 (SC to lower intake with o-rings included)
Brand: Felpro
Part Number: MS95744

The coolant elbows are Dorman part # 47065 and usually ~$4 from the HELP section.

I really hate to overpay.

has anyone seen any research that says porting the LIM will benefit a car that will NEVER have an intercooler on it?
I can add this mod for pretty cheap, but I cant really find any proof (other than hearsay) as to if this mod helps anything but intercooled applications.

AA wrote:

According to GM, fuel injector O-rings should be replaced whenever you remove the injectors. You'll most likely have them out for this job.

But if you're planning to do new injectors anyway, I'd just save the new rings until that time. Hopefully you will do them sooner than later.

I think I am gonna pull them for cleaning. I dont think I'll need an injector upgrade unless I drop to my 3" pulley.

Drew, if the '96 and '98 use the same injectors, I can have my old stockers sent out to be cleaned/flowed, and returned to you when they are done, then you can send me your old stockers. That way you end up with some known good ones and you know what their flow rates are, and I can reuse yours for somebody else...

What are your IPWs during a WOT scan? I'm running a 3.2 pulley and having a big fight with KR above 5000 RPM. I'm hoping the 42.5 injectors will help that situation.

deekster_caddy wrote:

Drew, if the '96 and '98 use the same injectors, I can have my old stockers sent out to be cleaned/flowed, and returned to you when they are done, then you can send me your old stockers. That way you end up with some known good ones and you know what their flow rates are, and I can reuse yours for somebody else...

What are your IPWs during a WOT scan? I'm running a 3.2 pulley and having a big fight with KR above 5000 RPM. I'm hoping the 42.5 injectors will help that situation.

i didnt do a full scan (no laptop with me) so dont know what my IPW's are. I'd bet no more than 20. In theory they should be going near static pretty soon though.

Thanks for the offer, but I probably wont stick with my stock injectors for long anyways. I really wanna put on my 3" pulley thats been sitting for over a year in my garage and im pretty sure nothing less than 42.5lb injectors will do, especially w/o an intercooler.

deekster_caddy wrote:

What are your IPWs during a WOT scan? .

scanned this the other day, maxed out at almost 20 (19.75)

after I do the ported SC, im pretty sure I will have to add more fuel and take them to 21 or 22 IPW's.

dreww wrote:

has anyone seen any research that says porting the LIM will benefit a car that will NEVER have an intercooler on it?
I can add this mod for pretty cheap, but I cant really find any proof (other than hearsay) as to if this mod helps anything but intercooled applications.

AA wrote:

According to GM, fuel injector O-rings should be replaced whenever you remove the injectors. You'll most likely have them out for this job.

But if you're planning to do new injectors anyway, I'd just save the new rings until that time. Hopefully you will do them sooner than later.

I think I am gonna pull them for cleaning. I dont think I'll need an injector upgrade unless I drop to my 3" pulley.

You mean machineing the top opewning on the Lim? if so no it will not benefit unless you plan on running a IC in the future. I am running one currently and it cost me a little top end power. But when I get my IC on it will makre up for it.

oldsman105 wrote:

dreww wrote:

has anyone seen any research that says porting the LIM will benefit a car that will NEVER have an intercooler on it?
I can add this mod for pretty cheap, but I cant really find any proof (other than hearsay) as to if this mod helps anything but intercooled applications.

You mean machineing the top opewning on the Lim? if so no it will not benefit unless you plan on running a IC in the future. I am running one currently and it cost me a little top end power. But when I get my IC on it will makre up for it.

ok, thats what I was thinking. Alot of others seem to think otherwise, but they of course have ported the LIM so they need to justify the cost I guess. I under stand how it helps with intercooling, but not with merely porting the stock SC.


And for anyone wanting to know about customer support:
ZZP sent me my order quickly with no problems. My usual experience with them.

WBS is another story. They charged me immediatly of course, but I STILL dont have my supercharger housing or even a tracking number. Ive emailed them a few times and they are responsive (even offering to custom fill my EGR hole per my request - which I feel wont happen). Ordered Feb. 22.
How long does it take to do a SC port? Im patient but their website never said anything about 3-4 weeks for delivery. At least dont charge me up front.

Make sure you are communicating with Mike at WBS. I've never known him to fall short on customer service. Always prompt on email response.

Not a kock or anything.. my experience with ZZP has been quite opposite to yours. BTW, if you got an MPS or valve seals, check the number you recieved. If you get a cam install kit, hope they sent you the lube. And if you ask a technical question expect completely different info than you requested and don't be surprised if it contradicts their website.

I do business with them, but check any orders closely. Shipping has always been fast and IMO they have a great pulley puller.

It took quite a while for me to get my WBS ported supercharger. Long enough that I was worried. They came through in the end, but I got a 97 core even though I requested a newer model. I sent in a 37000 mile 98 core, so I at least expected a 98. The required vacuum caps weren't included, so I had to wait even longer to get those.

Oldsman is still waiting for his WBStore brake pads from his 13 inch brake upgrade kit. The order was put in about 1 week before Christmas!