FAQ: Automatic Leveling Control (ALC) Concerns

Karma wrote:

And just throwing this out there, my experience is having the back high results in less front bouncing. I have orig front struts and crappy roads. After retrofitting the rear air shocks so I could manually control their pressure, I run around with 75 PSI in the back, very stiff and high. I find this majorly tames front bounce. (Though once I go coilovers its all a non-issue.)

What is OEM PSI for the shocks? I am considering doing this.

charlieRobinson wrote:

Karma wrote:

And just throwing this out there, my experience is having the back high results in less front bouncing. I have orig front struts and crappy roads. After retrofitting the rear air shocks so I could manually control their pressure, I run around with 75 PSI in the back, very stiff and high. I find this majorly tames front bounce. (Though once I go coilovers its all a non-issue.)

What is OEM PSI for the shocks? I am considering doing this.

I'm not sure, but I believe the reccomended PSI for the rear airshocks is 30-40 ish. IIRC max they can handle is 150, and I know I've tried them with 120 before. But keep in mind there is not really an "OEM psi", as it depends on what you have in your trunk. Empty will be one PSI, and throwing in an anvil will cause the back to attempt to rise and increase the PSI. All still stock. Using the AK29 kit, you can remove the stock compresser and run whatever pressure you want in them.

Right on. Just wanted to see how much you lifted. Is there any way to not bypass the airpump and use the pump in conjunction with the manual air fill port?

wouldn't a simple + adapter do the trick? 1 line to the pump, 2 lines: (1 to each shock), and the last line to the manual fill port?

Yup, in theory you could make such a thing. But if you are always running more air than the system would normally put in, they why have the system there at all? It would never run or adjust itself.

My back end is pretty high. I realise most don't like it like that, but I really like the stance. Plus the better weight distribution for launching and handling in corners. With robos coilovers though, I can lower it as well as set the stance front/rear however I like. And the upgraded strut inserts and springs should tame any weight transfer way beyond anything I have right now.

My main concern is if I drop the rear lower than then sensors like, I don't want the pump to run indefinitely trying to fill something it can't. I also don't want to remove the sensors or the pump incase I want to use them later. I think the + adapter would solve this.

(you can also just pull the fuse under the back seat and leave the compresser and stock lines in place.)

is it normal for the pump to be loud? mine is extremely loud..and even tho i hear it ..it doesnt appear to be working..could it be my shocks are too bad??? help please

dboydakid wrote:

is it normal for the pump to be loud? mine is extremely loud..and even tho i hear it ..it doesnt appear to be working..could it be my shocks are too bad??? help please

Didn't you post about rear shocks some months ago?

yes i did..and i got some..my friend that has a park ave gave me these auto zone shocks smh..they are the worst. they were fine for a month or so .but now i just keep hearing this loud noise and nothing is happening...

Check your lines are connected and holding pressure. If there's a leak, whether from your lines, connections, or the shocks themselves, the pump will quickly burn out if you let it run. I'd pull the fuse for the pump until you can find the problem.

dboydakid wrote:

yes i did..and i got some..my friend that has a park ave gave me these auto zone shocks smh..they are the worst. they were fine for a month or so .but now i just keep hearing this loud noise and nothing is happening...

At under $100 per set, you really should consider getting a new pair of rear shocks. AutoZone sells Gabriels and you have to change the airline fittings I think. CarQuest sells KYBs under their CarQuest brand, they ride very nicely and the factory fittings snap on. Monroe Max-Airs are available through NAPA and I think special order thru AutoZone as well as a European brand "Boge." Also the shocks might be cheaper if you order off RockAuto.com.

Anyway - If the shocks your friend gave you were good, chances are you need to check the airlines. Here is how: get an empty spray bottle (for Windex or 409 or what have you) and put about 2 or 3 teaspoon of regular dish detergent in it. Does not have to be "Dawn" or whatever, the dollar-store stuff will work fine. Alternatively, as long as you are at the dollar store if they have like 1/2 gallon bottles of kiddie bubble solution you can just use that straight. Anyway, fill the rest of the spray bottle with water, gently so you don't suds up the liquid (or just pour the bubble solution in the spray bottle). Now - spray it on the shocks and the air lines until everything is good and wet, then turn on the car. You do not have to start it just turn the key to "ON"... While you are waiting for the air pump to start, spray some more bubble solution on the shocks and air lines. They have to be good and wet. it is OK if the spray bottle makes bubbles - the point is that when the pump comes on, there will be bubbles spouting from any leaks. That is waht you are looking for - when that pump is running is there someplace on the lines or shocks that is blowing bubbles.

SO -- if the air lines are bubbling you get to fix them. If a shock is bubbling you get to replace the pair.

Have at it.

Thanks alot imma check all that tomorrow

So I have my air ride disabled and my car has noticeably less body roll now. This makes no sense. I took out the relay to see the difference and the suspension seems MUCH tighter now. I feel bumps a little more but I like the fact that i don't have everything thrashing around my trunk on back roads anymore. I'm probably going to leave it disabled. I never thought it would be a good thing to disable it but so far I like the ride better than it out it by far. I do have new aftermarket struts by the way if that makes a difference.

c0reyl wrote:

So I have my air ride disabled and my car has noticeably less body roll now. This makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. It's the way air shocks work - when one side gets pressurized downwards, the air that was in that shock is pushed to the other side, exacerbating body roll. Depressurize the system and there isn't enough pressure for that to happen. It's the sacrifice of self-leveling rear.

When I put air shocks in the back of my '73 I put a manual fill valve on the left and right side lines separately so that wouldn't happen. When I have a heavy load in the back or tow my trailer, I use a pressure gauge and set each side to whatever matching pressure is needed. No body roll issues that way. When I'm drag racing at the track, I can just pressurize the right rear as I desire.

deekster_caddy wrote:

c0reyl wrote:

So I have my air ride disabled and my car has noticeably less body roll now. This makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense. It's the way air shocks work - when one side gets pressurized downwards, the air that was in that shock is pushed to the other side, exacerbating body roll. Depressurize the system and there isn't enough pressure for that to happen. It's the sacrifice of self-leveling rear.

When I put air shocks in the back of my '73 I put a manual fill valve on the left and right side lines separately so that wouldn't happen. When I have a heavy load in the back or tow my trailer, I use a pressure gauge and set each side to whatever matching pressure is needed. No body roll issues that way. When I'm drag racing at the track, I can just pressurize the right rear as I desire.

Well in that case, I much much prefer the suspension without the ELC or Air Ride or whatever. I hate body roll, and funily enough, the riv with body roll was actually scaring my friends a bit on the back roads. They felt unsafe :/

But it's like an entirely different car now. I'm surprised no one told me to do that instead of recommending a Cadillac sway bar conversion lol

I don't see how just removing the ALC relay would make any difference. As long as the lines are connected and pressure is held between the two, why would turning off the pump matter? Did you leave the lines connected? Are the shocks pumped up?

The lines are connected and they were pumped up before I disabled it, not sure if that affects it much or if it has auto release or what but the way it is now has much less body roll. I can feel it in my back, bad back is sensitive to body roll. Also lose things aren't flying around my trunk as usual. If it ain't broke then don't fix it I suppose lol

Hi everyone, I'm wondering if anyone has had luck either converting their air suspension to a conventional suspension or installing an aftermarket pump kit? I have a '97 with a bad ride level sensor, and replacing the sensor is proving to be quite expensive if not impossible.

I've come across an aftermarket kit on Amazon that supposedly fits my Riv but I'm suspicious because it's one of those "universal" kits.

Monroe also sells a conversion kit (#90007) for a hundred bucks that bypasses the whole air suspension completely. It's kind of tempting considering it's a lot cheaper than the air system and has no sensors and compressors to go bad! But I'm worried about losing that dreamy Riviera ride.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Kristin

gunmetalRED wrote:

Hi everyone, I'm wondering if anyone has had luck either converting their air suspension to a conventional suspension or installing an aftermarket pump kit? I have a '97 with a bad ride level sensor, and replacing the sensor is proving to be quite expensive if not impossible.

I've come across an aftermarket kit on Amazon that supposedly fits my Riv but I'm suspicious because it's one of those "universal" kits.

Monroe also sells a conversion kit (#90007) for a hundred bucks that bypasses the whole air suspension completely. It's kind of tempting considering it's a lot cheaper than the air system and has no sensors and compressors to go bad! But I'm worried about losing that dreamy Riviera ride.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Kristin

if you do a search on this site you will find lots of discussion about this topic. Why not do a search instead of waiting for an answer to something that's already been discussed a lot?

I have searched but have mostly come across discussions about upgrading suspensions to race quality, not regular commuting. If you have a helpful link to pass along that I have missed, I would be grateful. If not, please don't pick a senseless fight, just ignore the post.

Have you looked for a used level sensor? GM used the same equipment on many many air-ride cars for many years. Try car-part.com.

There is a thread about someone who converted their rear shocks to I think F250 Rancho shocks. It would be possible to use that advice but not install the stiff Rancho shocks. However, any shock you install that was designed for an F250 is going to ride a lot stiffer.

If you like the OEM ride, I would work on finding parts and repairing what you have. The stock air-leveling system lasts a long time. The most common problem is that the shocks leak and the compressor burns out because it runs all the time. Keep the components in decent shape and it just keeps working!

gunmetalRED wrote:

I have searched but have mostly come across discussions about upgrading suspensions to race quality, not regular commuting. If you have a helpful link to pass along that I have missed, I would be grateful. If not, please don't pick a senseless fight, just ignore the post.

This is not and won't become a fight - just some fairly direct feedback.

One - the search function on this site works but sometimes can be a pain. It is really picky about what key words you use and about what mode (topics vs terms). What you're looking for is not necessarily "air ride" or "rear shocks" or "compressor" but to search all three of those and other terms you think will work until you find helpful info. You will find info about replacing the rears with the Monroe kit (that topic was gummed to death, there's a lot on it); the benefits of getting rid of the rear air shocks (hint: Robotennis posted *a lot* about that, probably the racing stuff you referred to is in there) and there also were posts my me and others looking technically at the pros and cons of the rear air suspension.

Two: the folks on this site will help you with troubleshooting and what-not but you're going to have to get out under the car and disassemble some stuff. If you don't have the time or the interest to do the mechanical work yourself you need to say so, so that people give you advice geared toward that preference.

Now here is where the feedback turns a bit more direct:

If you don't have the time, the interest, and the space/place to do the work yourself you need to think twice about keeping a Riv. A 15+ year old lux car is usually cheap to buy and usually very pricey to own.

Another "direct" item - You've got this other thread on this same topic:

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t9828-wtb-hunting-for-a-ride-height-sensor#154404

The way I look at it - yes you say you are a transportation design student, my guess is you're a sophomore (latin for "Wise and Silly") - you're smart enough but silly enough to think that asking essentially the same thing two different places might yield a different answer. That is not a real good idea on this site, so I'm calling you out on it. You may think it wise to cross-post - admittedly you correctly surmise that different people will see the different posts and so you may get an answer you like better on one or the other. It is silly, however, because it's not such a big site that such a tactic goes undetected and many list members will quietly sit back and watch the game unfold (Robo is that you ROFLing?)

Enough "direct" stuff, back to the topic:

You claim that "replacing the sensor is proving to be quite expensive" and it is if you want a new one. With so many out there, though, a used one is a very good bet. The "sensor" was used on a bunch of different GM cars. There are probably enough very good used ones out there in the junkyards to make you happy at a fair price but you are going to have to make more effort to get one. I seriously doubt that anyone on the list has one sitting around that they are going to just give you or sell you for $5.00 or whatever. To me, in your case the least expensive way to get one in a timely manner sounds like working with a junkyard that will get one for you, for instance these guys will find it pull it and ship it:

http://donsauto.iarbiz.com/ (don's auto mall).

You can give them the GM part number and tell them you are comparison shopping for one of "L-K-Q" (stands for Like Kind and Quality). And if they quote you one for a price that's less than 1/2 new, delivered to you, you might should buy it... "Auto Warranty" companies force dealers and repair shops to use used parts, and so the used part market has **really** improved to a more professional level over the past say 5 years.

For a new part you might try

http://www.gmpartsclub.com/index.php?p=home

which claims to be the internet "storefront" for the largest Chevy dealer in Dallas TX. I don't know who it is (Classic? Young? Wood? Lowrie? there are several huge dealers in that market) Anyway it will run you around $330 plus tax, shipping and handling. By the way, if you want a new one then you need to jump on it because as soon as that sucker is 10 model years old GM will quit making it.

Sorry if you feel this answer is picking a fight, but now is the time to tell you what you need to know and not some feel good BS that you want to hear. Bottom line is you have some phone calls to make and work to do.

gunmetalRED wrote:

I have searched but have mostly come across discussions about upgrading suspensions to race quality, not regular commuting. If you have a helpful link to pass along that I have missed, I would be grateful. If not, please don't pick a senseless fight, just ignore the post.

Not sure if you came across my posts that detailed my experiences with the ALC. IMHO, unless you have tested the level sensor and found it to be defective, or obviously damaged, you should not replace it. There is an excellent, if not lengthy trouble shooting diagnostic in the FSM. It will narrow down the problem to a single component, or circuit. that saves you the trouble, frustration, and expense of replacing unnecessary parts. In my case, it was a single bad wire between the level sensor, and the ALC relay under the rear seat. That was 7 years ago. The system has been flawless since then. Every time you start the car, the system tests itself. After a 17-35 second delay, the compressor should run from 3-5 seconds.

The diagnostic is lengthy, and sometimes hard to understand. It took me a few days to find the problem. All it takes is a multi meter, and patience. Good luck.

Thank you so much you guys for all the information! I really do appreciate it.

Unfortunately in the last 20 minutes we discovered the crack in the rear cross member/subframe... so the ALC issue is now the least of my baby's issues. Just in the last weekend of driving, it separated. There is not enough metal left to have it welded. I am so freaking upset.

So if anyone in the Toledo, OH area is looking for a great parts car... EVERYTHING works... Brand new tires too... and I have one free tow left from AAA within a 100-mile radius. (sob)

Er, well. Everything works except somethin' with the ALC, of course.

Try car-part.com, you can probably get a complete subframe from a southern car that has no issues.

If you have the project space, get the subframe out and I'm sure somebody can weld it. There may not be enough metal to weld directly, but large patch areas are often times stronger than a direct weld.