Fuel Injectors

Rickw wrote:

Dumb Ass ??

You don't really want to go there do you?

I posted that remark in regards to your "dumb ass" comment.. Restated below

Rickw wrote:

It's amazing how quick a study Travis is. Isn't it.?
He's already become the resident expert.
I'll have to pay more attention to every word he speaks......NOT !!!!

AA wrote:

Dumb ass #1 here - Hey travis, I found this statement at 3800Pro forums regarding injector upgrades. What do you suppose it means?

Quote :

don't go too big, the injectors have a hard time at low pulse widths causing you to have issues with low speed drivability. Only go as large as you HAVE to have.

I found this at the fullsizechevy board. What do you think of it?

Quote :

You don't want too big, because small pulse width performance will suffer badly. Injectors don't like to try to get below 1-1.5 mS, they can't manage themselves well there. So we shoot for keeping the PW higher and the only way to do it is properly sized injectors. Remember, we are dealing with mechanical injectors, and it gets hard to manage as accurately as we need to when we get down to the low PW's.

Here's one I found at 60DegreeV6, regarding 36# L67 injectors in a N/A V6:

Quote :

They are a bad idea on batch fire (MPFI) motors. The minimum pulse width recommended for high impedence injectors is around 1.8ms. Tha means that 1.8ms all the way down to 0ms will deliver the same amount of fuel because the fuel injector just cannot open and close any faster then that.

At idle I was seing around .9ms (1000 rpm) A 800 rpm idle was down around .7ms. At a 70mph cruise 1.4ms was about average.

Whats this mean? You will get a horribly rich and rough idle and it will be cruising just sucking down the gas. Tuned the best I could the most I could get was 21mpg highway driving, probably due to the injectors.

Dude.. PROPERLY tuned in 42.5's you can still manage to get GREAT mileage.. yes you will have to compensate by advancing your timing at cruise probably... If you have 65's your gonna have more issues trying to get better gas mileage... BUT you can still get it pretty damn close..

Rickw wrote:

Travis would have to read and comprehend all that data.
He's proven he's incapable of doing that and just not willing to.
So it's just not worth it to try and help him out.
All he want's is for someone to tell him what to do, not figure it out on his own.
And if he try's to figure it out alone..... well we've seen the results.
Someone told him to go the 65# ers and now he'll be whining for help with tuning, guaranteed.
And if no one told him to use 65# injector's and he came up with that conclusion on his own then it just further justify's the argument that he can't read and comprehend technical data.
Be sure to remind him about the Dumb Ass comment when he comes whining for noob help... as he has been since getting tuning software.

I chose to get the 65's nancy.... I can change my IFR table to make them work.. hell i can make them work with E85.... The only efffing issue i'm having is my IPW is way the fuck off right now and i dont know whats causing this... S my D...

palermocorey90 wrote:

i can vouch they wont make ur MPG go down. but its all about how you drive. the last few tank fulls i have been light on the gas. just crusing around town, with a few WOTs here and there i get about 23-24 MPG average for a gas tank. BTW thats with 3.29 gears, and im cammed.

yes i quoted myself

palermocorey90 wrote:

palermocorey90 wrote:

i can vouch they wont make ur MPG go down. but its all about how you drive. the last few tank fulls i have been light on the gas. just crusing around town, with a few WOTs here and there i get about 23-24 MPG average for a gas tank. BTW thats with 3.29 gears, and im cammed.

yes i quoted myself

Quote :

Dude.. PROPERLY tuned in 42.5's you can still manage to get GREAT mileage.. yes you will have to compensate by advancing your timing at cruise probably...

So what you are saying here is I can get even better mileage by advancing timing and keeping 36# stockers. Am I understanding you right?

AA wrote:

Quote :

Dude.. PROPERLY tuned in 42.5's you can still manage to get GREAT mileage.. yes you will have to compensate by advancing your timing at cruise probably...

So what you are saying here is I can get even better mileage by advancing timing and keeping 36# stockers. Am I understanding you right?

I'm not saying i'm pro by any means.. I still ask for help and need help... i know some of the basics.. I do however know enough about injector sizes vs. gas mileage topic... Now.. until i get the 65's and some corn.. lets get back to my IPW issue..... since you guys seem to know more than me about that... why don't you help me diagnose this current issue...

From what you said, I have to compensate for the 42.5# by advancing timing (because 42.5# = worse economy). So, if I use 36# (better economy), I don't need to compensate for anything, plus I can also advance timing for even better MPG. Make sense now?

This thread isn't about your IPW issue, it's about fuel injectors.

AA wrote:

From what you said, I have to compensate for the 42.5# by advancing timing (because 42.5# = worse economy). So, if I use 36# (better economy), I don't need to compensate for anything, plus I can also advance timing for even better MPG. Make sense now?

This thread isn't about your IPW issue, it's about fuel injectors.

I wish my car was running right and i still had the 42.5 lb'rs in my possession.... By scaling the IFR table to 42.5/36 which is idk like 15%-18% from stock..

Mine's running great on 36#. Why would I want to change to 42.5? I'm not looking to run E85 because I want performance AND economy.

AA wrote:

Mine's running great on 36#. Why would I want to change to 42.5? I'm not looking to run E85 because I want performance AND economy.

Word.. so stockers are fine for you for now.. Til you want a IC and a 2.8 inch pulley

Stockers are fine for 300-400 WHP depending on who you ask.

I'm maxing out my 42.5# with 350whp...

Having a cam, Gen V and other mods, I haven't come close to maxing 42.5's.

Using a Gen V the typical area for running out of stock injector is around 3.2"-3.1".

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but does anyone know if injectors out of a 1997 GTP will work? Reason I ask is because I've been running lean and I can't for the life of me find any vacuum leaks. My uncle has a GTP sitting in his garage waiting for a motor swap, so I was going to see if we swapped injectors if maybe they would clear this code. I know I should send mine out to be tested and cleaned, but these are available right now and a little less damaging to my wallet.

Yes, they will swap. GTP and '96-99 SC Riviera use same injectors.

Awesome! Hopefully this works.

PS - no worries about diggin up old threads. Better than starting a new one that already exists.

I was digging around and came up with an idea. The injectors on a 2nd gen Eclipse Turbo/MT appear to be EV1 and are 450CC (just over 42lb). There are also Evo 8 injectors at 560CC (just over 53lb). Obviously the Eclipse ones will be the easiest to find in a junkyard. Anybody forsee any issues with impedance or physically fitting them?

I guess I don't see why they wouldn't fit, but by the time you go to the junkyard, but them, send them out to be cleaned and flow matched, you could find a set of Lucas injectors for the same price probably.

matt270avian wrote:

I was digging around and came up with an idea. The injectors on a 2nd gen Eclipse Turbo/MT appear to be EV1 and are 450CC (just over 42lb). There are also Evo 8 injectors at 560CC (just over 53lb). Obviously the Eclipse ones will be the easiest to find in a junkyard. Anybody forsee any issues with impedance or physically fitting them?

Arent you converting to corn? Youre going to need need bigger than 42#s. I am seeing ~75% IDC with 60#s right now.

charlieRobinson wrote:

Arent you converting to corn? Youre going to need need bigger than 42#s.  I am seeing ~75% IDC with 60#s right now.

Yes, but I also don't have headers/cam and I'm running a larger pulley. Will probably need bigger ones at some point but if I can get these for nothing it's worth a shot.

matt270avian wrote:

charlieRobinson wrote:

Arent you converting to corn? Youre going to need need bigger than 42#s.  I am seeing ~75% IDC with 60#s right now.

Yes, but I also don't have headers/cam and I'm running a larger pulley. Will probably need bigger ones at some point but if I can get these for nothing it's worth a shot.

I would make sure they are flow matched and clean. I wouldnt go any lower than 60 if I were you.

I am looking to move to 80#s as soon as I get my snout milled and see if my IDC is over 80%

Man, I just forsee problems with putting on a set of junkyard injectors without cleaning them.

Also, like Charlie said, I don't think these are going to cut it for e85. IMO, investing in headers and either rockers or a cam before going e85 makes more sense. Without the other breathing mods and running a smaller pulley, you're basically just getting way worse gas mileage for no reason.

The 560s would probably work well, but I'd still send them out to be cleaned before putting them on my car.

Maybe you can use the old junkyard injectors and the e85 will clean them out for you!

seriously tho, just get new injectors