Dealer update: Either loose rockers or bad lifter

Adam.. look up the Portland GP club from Oregon. I'm pretty sure they have a bunch up your way as well and it's a great group.

(hung out with them at a track)

I'd go rockers. They will have the heads off to swap the lifters, but there is a lot more that has to happen to shove a cam in there.

Make sure you get the new METAL lower intake manifold gaskets.

urbsnspices wrote:

They will have the heads off to swap the lifters

You should not need to remove the heads to change lifters on the 3800. I've never actually heard of anyone pulling the heads for that reason. Done a bunch of cam's and lifter swaps myself and was always successful in doing them w/o pulling any heads.

Although if I were that far in and labor cost wasn't an issue. The timing cover and chain are pretty easy to pull to put a cam in.

I'm just worried that maybe the cam got worn a bit with the lifter the way it is.

So, new cam, lifters and springs. Anyone have a link for the 1.9's and springs? And the cam?

Also, I really don't want to get burned by a mechanic when having this done. My last car, the STS, needed an engine rebuild and you wouldn't believe what I went through. As a disabled man, the guy knew I couldn't do anything once he had my car and it took him nearly a year to rebuild the engine... after it was done... the engine blew up a month later - and I went back to the shop and he had disappeared. Literally. No recourse.

The lifter has a roller on the cam, therefore it should ride the cam w/o the potential of hurting it. If anything the pushrod/rocker might have taken the brunt and usually doesn't get hurt.

Holler at those Portland folks.. I think the board was Portland Grand Prix Forum, but could get a URL if you'd like. I know the guy that started it up before moving to AZ.

If you wanted to do a cam. Stock or something that would put a smile on your face? With stock heads you would want to check the clearances because most aftermarket cams are close to max lift.

Stock you should be able to do rockers and I would suggest the 105# or Ls6 springs. If you are a 97, 105's only. LS6's are not supposed to fit properly.

Here is a link to our rocker/springs install:

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/series-ii-engine-transmission-f4/write-up-installing-rockers-valve-springs-push-rods-t9.htm?highlight=rockers

Here is a link to a few vendors selling parts:

http://www.intense-racing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?screen=CTGY&Store_Code=IR&Category_Code=HCV

http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products.php?id=104

http://www.wbodystore.com/grandprix/valvetrain-c-7.html

http://www.3800performance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=CVT

Good luck!

BillBoost37 wrote:

You should not need to remove the heads to change lifters on the 3800. .

Oops I meant the lower intake manifold.

I just think there is a lot more work with a cam swap. Plus you have to add the extra Riviera steps. And a lot more that can go wrong. I would go the safer route.

urbsnspices wrote:

[I just think there is a lot more work with a cam swap. Plus you have to add the extra Riviera steps. And a lot more that can go wrong. I would go the safer route.

There is some extra work. There is a difference between cam and rockers, depending on the person and their desires is the route they should go.

What additional Riv steps? The mount isn't that much of an obstruction and your H body buddies (Bonnies) have it too. As for safer... putting springs on a worn or high mileage timing chain is not recommended vs putting in the new chain at the same time as a cam.

For ease of install if you can pull a lower intake and lifters then you can successfully navigate a cam install, but there is more total work doing a cam.

allfalldown wrote:

Also, I really don't want to get burned by a mechanic when having this done.

All the more reason to talk to a local 3800 club... you can usually find someone to do it with/for you and you get to supervise everything to your satisfaction! Heck Bill even let me and a buddy install a fuel rail in his car while he was working on somebody else's car and it was the first time we'd ever met!

Im just saying that there is more risk to a cam install then rockers. I was in the same position, where I turned a minor repair into a big install. Heads, cam, timing chain, the whole valvetrain was replaced, but it turned out that the bearings were on the way out anyway.

It isnt as fun, but my experience tells me to fix whats broke before you go fast.

urbsnspices wrote:

It isnt as fun, but my experience tells me to fix whats broke before you go fast.

Agreed 100% Sometimes I get carried away with trying to mention that a cam install isn't much more since the lifters would be out.

Talked to my buddy last night. He said he believes the Seattle GP site is SEACGP.com and that they are an awesome group of folks that know our motors inside and out.

i just got a riv with 114k miles with a similar tick, but it was loud enough that i thought it could be rod bearings. as it is still feint, i decided to go ahead and drop the pan and check it out. i saw nothing that scared me, slight metal in the pan but nothing terrible. i went ahead and rolled in new bearings, and im on 100 miles on the new bearings sound still exists. i feel good that i have put new bearings in successfully, however, i have narrowed it down to a lifter or rocker on the backside. but the engine runs better that my old car i sold a while back, and has no extreme misses. haven't cut into her yet, but i at least know i can drive it now and not screw up my crank. just cant wait to get into that mess. and im almost convinced to go with bigger rockers, but its a dd and i have three other projects, a house to remodel, and a kid on the way. geez, that sounds overbearing as i type it. lol anyway after i let my bearings properly break in, im going to put some ATF in the mix and see if i cant get her to loosen up. anyone had any success with this???

I personally don't have any experience with adding a little ATF to help loosen things up. But I've heard other people mention it with no ill effects. I guess you shouldn't run your oil diluted for too long though. It will either work the way you want it to or it won't. I would think after 100 or so miles you should know and then change the oil.
But I'm curious, in your sig you've got a 3.6" pulley. Did you notice any KR after adding the pulley and did you have to do any PCM tuning for it.
If you have to go in for lifter replacement I personally recommend installing an upgraded valve spring. Either the LS 90# or the 105# and 1.9 rockers.
I did the 105# springs and 1.9 rockers along with headers to let some air through the engine then I did the pulley drop to 3.4".
What a difference in power and torque without sacrificing any fuel mileage.
Since you have the 3" DP and modified exhaust I think the above mentioned mod's would suit your engine well.
Anyway, I found used rockers, new springs, retainers, etc. on one of these boards for reasonable money, about 50% of what they would have cost retail and am very glad I did it.
Hope you find and fix the noise soon.

From the description, I'd guess that the spring in the lifter is truly collapsed. But, before I decided on anything I throw a can of Rislone in it and drive it for a few days. If the oil is full, they make a pint can of "concentrate" in lieu of the regular quart can.

I replaced my bearings the other day, (no big deal) and the noise is still there, i talked to the guy i got the car from and he thinks its a wrist pin. which ill just have to live with as long as i can. actually, its been a while since i worked on that car as i sold it a while back. i never did any computer work, and i think i was worse off because of it. this car i have now does have 70,000 fewer miles but even with the knock, it runs better than my old car after all the mods! so when i get some money someday, i might do the same things i did to my old car and see the differance. i really was never impressed with the old rivs performance and kind of lost faith due to that. with this car i have a new hope and get the thrill of having my big ,comfortable, two door, sexy, cops look the other way.. cruiser. lol much more to come hopefully.