'79 - '85 E-body Front end

Edit: This is in response to a question from Cadillacman in his Wecome thread. I put it here in Suspensions rather than Engines & Trannies because it also has to deal with steering components.

Danny,

I don't have a Caddy, I've got 2 Rivieras. Same car though, just cousins. Once I get my signature figured out, there (hopefully) won't be any confusion !

Irregardless, yes I have had front end troubles, especially on the '82. When I first bought it, it needed drive boots, which led to C.V. joint failure.

Even though I had lots of experience changing the joints on V.W.'s I found out it was much cheaper to just buy the complete axle assemblies ( half shafts are the GM term).

Let me digress a little here. I knew by driving my '82 that I had a C.V. joint problem on the right side because whenever I made a left turn, it felt as though the right side was "tucking" under the car and there was a typical clunk, clunk ,clunk, on the right side, which I thought was from the inner joint.

Following instructions from manuals, (best in order are: Mitchell's, Chilton's, then Haynes. The most easily had is Haynes, the others can be found in the referance section of your local library), you need to remove the brake calipers and disks from each side, and disconnect the upper ball joints from the control arms. I took this opportunity to replace the disks, the pads and the upper ball joints.

When I took the front end apart, I was surprised to find that the right outer joint fell apart in my hands, and the inner joint was fine !

On the right side, there's an intermediate shaft with a bearing assembly on the outer end. When I had the right axle off, I checked the bearing and it seemed to be O.K. with only a small amount of play in it.

Everything went together with no problems, but after a few months the "tucking" started again! when I took the front end apart for my restoration, that intermediate shaft bearing assembly was really bad !!

In the mean time I bought my "80 Riv and started to drive it. The frame was rotten and the torsion bar crossmember was completely rotted away causing a big bang over deep potholes, but I had absolutely no problems with my front end. In fact the steering was actually tighter on the "80 than on the '82 !!

Well that's my story. I hope it helps you and anyone else with our year cars.

Good luck and keep posting.

Mark

p.s. Total cost in parts if you do it yourself with a helper should be around $200+ bucks from Autozone. (At least in Michigan)

p.p.s And they're guaranteed for life !!

I brought this over from Cadillacman's "welcome" thread.- Mark


Hey, Mark. Thanks for the help. If you don't mind, could you help me once more?

Les Schwab Tires gave me an estimate for what they said that it needed:
A pitman arm, an idler arm, and two drive axles (not mentioning tires, alignment, etc.)
So, I guess a couple of these:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=PWL&MfrPartNumber=CV10014&PartType=945&PTSet=A

One of these:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=TRW&MfrPartNumber=18809&PartType=63&PTSet=A

One of these:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=TRW&MfrPartNumber=18843&PartType=69&PTSet=A

I suppose both of these:
http://www.partsamerica.com/images/spaclear.gif

Is that it? Both Kragen's and Autozone do not have any listing for an intermediate shaft bearing for my car. Do those axles have the boots with them, or do I need to purchase them seperate? It looks as if they do, but I'm just making sure.

By doing this myself, I should save almost $400 on the job. I didn't go for the cheap parts, as these have a lifetime warranty and cheap Kragen parts tend to break on me. I bought a fuel pressure regulator that actually started leaking out of the middle just recently. I got around 3,000 miles off of it. I won't go cheap again.
Thanks for all your help,
Danny

Oh yeah, how do I remove the axles? The book isn't really elaborating upon that. Hopefully this will eliminate the loud "snap" that I hear at around 2 miles per hour while stopping. You can feel it through the car.

O.K. Danny, here we go...

First let me make two corrections. When I said replace the intermediate bearing whatever the cost, I should have added "if you can find it". That was why I said the first part , they're hard to find. (I was tired).

Secondly the bearing is called a support bearing, because it supports the intermediate drive shaft and the right hand driveshaft where they bolt together.

Yes the boots are included, it's a complete assembly.

Now on to business.

DO NOT buy two of the CV10014 shafts. The left and right driveshafts are different lengths. The cv10014 appears to be the shorter, right hand shaft, which attaches to the intermediate shaft. The left shaft is longer and bolts directly to the final drive output flange. I tried to find the left driveshaft on that site but wasn't able to. Generally they have consecutive part #'s.

The other parts that you were told you need seem to be correct. I wasn't able to link to the spaclear.gif link so I don't know what they are. Prices seem to be fair for everything else.

If I were you, I would deal with local suppliers rather than on the Internet. First, you can take your old stuff in and get exact replacements, secondly you won't have to pay core charges, because you'll have the parts right there to turn in, and thirdly, you'll get to know the guys who will sell you stuff in the future. Be sure to safely keep your receipts. If you have to do the job again, the guys you get to know will be more receptive to returns than a company far away.

I'll be back later tonight , I need to go now.
Soon,
Mark

Oh maannn...

I was just proof reading the whole procedure before posting and I lost it !

Sorry Danny, I'll try again tomorrow.

Mark

Hey, Mark. After re-examening the project I have decided to back down again. The idler arm and pitman arm are too hard for me to get to. I also miscalculated the money saved. It's actually $250 saved, not the $390 that I originally thought . Plus, this job will keep me out of work, so I won't be bringing anything in either.

It's around 1:30 am here so I need to hit the sack. I just wanted to post this so you wouldn't have to go through more trouble and write up more instructions. I can elaborate on the situation more tomorrow. You have been really kind and helpful to me and I appreciate it.
Thanks,
Danny

Danny,

It was never a trouble. I've enjoyed our conversations and hope that you keep in touch with myself and the site in general.

When your ready to tackle another project and need assistance I'll be more than willing to help you. Just post in the appropriate forum and send me a private message or an E-mail to let me know okay? Im glad to have met you, and like I said, keep in touch.

Mark

Hey Mark. You've been a great help to me and I will surely keep in contact. I'll let you know what the outcome is with the car as well. I'm taking it in tomorrow. I'm a little uneasy with the price, but at the same time I'm exited to finally get this done and have a car that handles correctly. It's 1:48 here and I have to be up early in the morning to drop the car off, so I better go. Thank you so, so much for the help and advice!
Your friend,
Danny

Hey, Mark. Well, I took it to the place to get it fixed this morning. I was worried about this, as I could see a lot of wear through the different grommets in the front end. Let's just say that the other place missed (or didn't mention) a bit more than it needed. No, it's no longer a $750 job, but a $2100 job. How fun is that? My dad is loaning me the $1000 that I need and I'll repay him this summer. I'm not exactly thrilled.

Oh look, my 13th post! What luck shall I encounter next???

WOW !!!!!

For $2100 I hope they're going to replace every bushing, joint, and bolt under there.

Are you getting a new steering gear, how about the steering shaft
U-Joint ? Your car had better be better than new for that price Danny.

Make sure that your wheels aren't bent and that you get the recommended size tire or no more than one size over. That and a good rear suspension will keep the Eldorado nimble. Too much tread on the road or too much un-sprung weight will cause it to feel sluggish during steering maneuvers.

Don't forget that the shop will not only charge you for labor but they'll mark-up the parts prices. For both of these reason's, owners learn to Do-It-Ourselves.

Hope this turns out to be a good decision for you Danny.

Let me know how it all turns out for you, and good luck on post #14 !!
Mark

Hey, Mark. I don't believe that they are replacing the steering gear and I don't know about the steering shaft u-joint. It better be a good choice; in it's present condition, it ruins tires every 2,000-3,000 miles. The camber needs adjustment and everything.

This place has been around for about 50 years. My dad went in there once for a brake line to a boat trailer and they let him take it home to see if it works before paying. That's very rare around here. I see that kind of laid-back attitude in other states, but not here in Sonoma County, California. Everything is more expensive around here, even to the pay to cost of living ratio. That's why we will be moving in a few years, as my parents can't afford to live here and retire. I'd like to move, as a one bedroom studio apartment would cost me around $1,000 per month and about $2,500 just to get into. With mechanics charging $100 to $125 per hour (it's an 8 hour job for my car), it's bound to be expensive .

Well, I first went to Les Shwab (I guess I spelt that right) and they gave me the original quote. This place was the same price, maybe even a little cheaper. Oh yeah, after the tires it will be around $2400. It's kind of funny to think of how my friend just bought a 280ZX Turbo for $2200 that's in good shape . Well, no use in complaining. I'm sure that it'll work out. They're a trustworthy place and the things that they are doing, well I couldn't do them myself (special camber tool or something they mentioned).

Where I live, regular gas is $4.50 a gallon and if you are making $70,000 a year, you are considered low income. I really don't know what it's like in Michigan, but $2100 doesn't go very far around here, unfortunately. Remember, I'm just an hour from San Francisco. How bad is Michigan, anyway?

Thanks,
Danny

Hi Danny,

I really did forget about the C.O.L difference between CA and MI. I'm sorry for that.

Well it seems that you may need either ball joints or control arm bushings, or both. That is what camber and caster are controlled and adjusted by. Toe-in and toe-out are determined by the Pittman arm, idler arm and the tie rods ( bent?) and tie rod ends, the adjustable joints that screw into the tie rods.

As far as a special camber adjusting tool, that's not your concern, it's the alignment shops concern.

Steering box and steering column U-Joint may or may not be involved. That U-Joint is often overlooked and will cause a loose steering condition, as the steering box will.

I'm sure that you will have good results from the shop that you selected.

Here in Michigan, gas just went down to $4.02 today. We're the highest in the Midwest for some dubious reasons. We also have the worst economy and unemployment rate in the country. The auto manufacturing that MI was known for went south (literally).

Let me (and everyone here at RivPower ) know what finally happens.

Mark

mark1950m wrote:

Hi Danny,

I really did forget about the C.O.L difference between CA and MI. I'm sorry for that.

No worries at all, it's just rediculous. That's a shame about the economy and unemployment rate. Hey, friend, I'll talk to you later on. I have a class at the local junior college. Ground School! I'm hoping to be a pilot when I grow up. I have to get ready for this period, it's my first. Today has been a bit stressful for me. Wish me luck!

Thanks,
Danny

Good luck on the pilot career. I have never met an uphappy pilot regardless of what they get paid. There is something to be said about doing what you love.

Today I saw in a mailer coupons for oil changes, trans flushes, tire rotations, etc... they stated foreign luxury cars and Cadillacs do not apply and will cost more. I don;t think there is more work involved- they just figure if you are driving one, you can afford the repairs. Dosen't sound too fair to me...

Danny, now I'm envious of you.

I wanted to fly so bad when I was a kid. I couldn't afford it so I joined the Marine Corps and trained as a reciprocating engine mechanic (piston engines) so I could fly as a crew member. My eyesight was too bad, even with glasses, to be a pilot.

I was able to pilot, thanks to the generosity of the officers who commanded and flew the planes that I crewed on, the medium transport C-117's, (originally called the R4-D's). They were the Navy versions of the Douglas Super DC-3's. Based on the famous DC-3 from the 1930's, the first modern airliner in the world.

I sat in the left & right seats for many hours, probably to give the officers a break on long flights, but both they and myself knew that it was a favor for me and that I loved and appreciated it.

This isn't the right place to post this, but I thought you might understand.

Mark

ewolfe0050 wrote:

Good luck on the pilot career. I have never met an uphappy pilot regardless of what they get paid. There is something to be said about doing what you love.

Today I saw in a mailer coupons for oil changes, trans flushes, tire rotations, etc... they stated foreign luxury cars and Cadillacs do not apply and will cost more. I don;t think there is more work involved- they just figure if you are driving one, you can afford the repairs. Dosen't sound too fair to me...

Yeah, it's really funny for a guy who drives a car that they bought from a charity for $500 .

Thanks. I'd love to be a pilot, as I really like to fly, but there seems to be some trouble with airlines lately. Although, I keep hearing that there is a demand for pilots or that there will be very soon, so.......

Sorry for not replying sooner. I've been a bit busy. Hey, Mark- that's really cool! I like Douglas DC-3's. I can fly one in Flight Simulator X. It's probably my favorite one to fly in the game. That's really too bad that you couldn't become a pilot. It is neat that those officers let you fly, though. I've had one lesson so far and it'll be a while until I take the next one. It's expensive.

I'm gonna go now as it's 1:14 am and I have to work tomorrow. Next time I'll reply quicker! I'm sorry for that.
Thanks,
Danny