FAQ: Starter/Solenoid Info

Thanks, Glenn. I'm not sure if the '95 is the same as the '98, but anything you find out is much appreciated!

AA,
Not sure if you've solved the issue, nor if this helps, but here's a wiring image from a '98 Park Ave.
Might shed some light.

No, hadn't figured it out for sure, but now looking at "VIEW A", it seems to match glenn's diagram, top left view. Now I know exactly where that ground goes! THANK BOTH OF YOU GUYS VERY MUCH!

Welcome!

AA wrote:

No, hadn't figured it out for sure, but now looking at "VIEW A", it seems to match glenn's diagram, top left view. Now I know exactly where that ground goes! THANK BOTH OF YOU GUYS VERY MUCH!

Anytime!

Here's some pics on the starter replacement if anyone ever needs it. I just did mine, took approx 30 min - really easy. Beat the old 30lb starter on the old Buicks any day. Here's what you'll need -
15mm socket
13mm socket
10mm socket
8mm socket
Ratchet & extensions and probably wear goggles while you're pulling the old one out because alot of crud falls when you remove the old one. Before you crawl under, be sure to disconnect power to the starter at the jumper box located on the left fender under the hood (15mm).



This is located directly in the middle on the front - accessed from the bottom. There a plastic shroud that covers 1 bolt that is held on by a 10mm screw. (it has already been removed).



You have 2 15mm bolts holding this up. Both are very easy to access. Once removed, you should be able to back it out and drop it down to access the power wire. Be careful not to damage the oil sending unit wires or the grounding cable mounted on the block.


Finally, you have the 2 more wires to disconnect - 1 is a 13mm nut and 1 has an 8mm nut. Remove the 8mm first and the starter should drop down for easy removal of the 13mm nut. I had no shims to worry about but I guess be aware some did have them. Installation is reverse. Like I said, very very easy.





I didn't have to do mine, but I'm at 150,000 so I figured why not. These can't last forever and when they go out, it's never a good time. They're inexpensive and way too easy not to do after 14 years (in my case). I noticed the teeth were pretty worn and first time I turned it over, much more smooth, quiet and powerful. $60 free shipping off Ebay with 1 yr warranty.

My starter temporarily locked up - after pulling the motor over a bit by the belts it released and hasn't had a problem since. Freak event or something I need to deal with. I think I've got about 96,000 miles now (car is a 97).

I had a weird non-start yesterday morning.  The car was covered in frost and I'm guessing either the frost or the cold caused the problem.  It started later on with no problems, and hasn't had a problem since.  After I got the car started the first time (still cold and frosty) I tried the windows and they were slooow.  After warming up they were strong again.  When the car first failed to start I pulled on the belts to turn the motor over a little, thinking I might have had the problem in the starter with the cog failing to disengage again.  But that wouldn't break up any frost in the starter motor unless it was engaged at the time (which it wouldn't have been), would it?

I've started vehicles in colder conditions before, and not had a problem with the starter motor.  An engine that didn't want to fire, sure, but the starter motor always went.  That was a heavy frost yesterday though, perhaps a combination of cold and humidity can freeze up a starter?

I don't know what would make a starter lock-up temporarily. It should either turn over the engine, or not work at all. The slow windows are a clue pointing at a weak battery or lose connection(s).

If you were able to turn the crank manually, that sort of rules out anything beyond the flywheel. I don't buy that frost can lock up a starter, unless it were filled with water or something. It's a really powerful motor. Also, the starter gets warm even in just a couple secs - it would melt any ice quickly.

The Riv's engine takes a LOT of current to turn over. If the battery was not putting out enough juice, it will crank very slow, or the solenoid may disengage (click sound). If you ever need to jump a Riviera, you will need a running vehicle, as most other car's batteries won't do the job.

If the temperature was very cold in the morning, the viscous oil in the engine would make it difficult to turn over, and the batteries CCA would be lower than normal. If the temperature rose between then and the 2nd attempt, or the sun was shining on the car, it might start because of lighter oil and higher cranking amps. I've had cars not start and then start up the next day for this reason.

You may consider running at 5w-30 oil in the winter. It will help solve the viscosity issue. The battery, well, give it a trickle charge the night before or morning of, but I know you've been down that road...

The battery should have been very close to fully charged. It was off the trickle charger overnight but had been on the previous day. I put it back on the charger after it failed to start, went back in for no more than half an hour, came back out, tried it a few more times and about the fifth time it started right up.

The dash lights stayed bright the whole time, but the radio dimmed. I can't recall if it's normal for the radio to dim or not.

Is it always an all-or-nothing deal with cranking this car? I have yet to get a weak wur wur wur, it goes or it doesn't.

Kind of. You typically won't get the wurr-wurr-wurr unless there is no fuel or no spark. A cylinder usually fires at 1.5-2 turns. If it's weak, usually it just stops turning in my experience. On very cold days I notice the first turn is weak, then it starts right up, but my battery is 5 years old.

Speaking of, it's 11ºF right now, and I'm about to go start the engine.

I've had a few experiences over the years like that with the Riv. It always ended up starting though. I've turned the key and gotten nothing, but then started np on the next try. I never did try to find the "issue". It really never repeated itself enough to motivate me to do so.

AA.... -1* this morning. Turned over extremely slowly, but it always fires up. My windows have been very slow the last few days. I chalk that up to it being in the single digits overnight. My car never does really get the chance to heat up all the way. I only drive 6 miles to work. The car sits for 23 hours a day.

On mornings like today, mine will turn over very weak and than it gradually gets stronger and stronger and finally starts. The only time it hasn't started was when it was -2 degrees F outside.

Abaddon wrote:

I've had a few experiences over the years like that with the Riv. It always ended up starting though. I've turned the key and gotten nothing, but then started np on the next try. I never did try to find the "issue". It really never repeated itself enough to motivate me to do so.  

AA....  -1* this morning. Turned over extremely slowly, but it always fires up. My windows have been very slow the last few days. I chalk that up to it being in the single digits overnight. My car never does really get the chance to heat up all the way. I only drive 6 miles to work. The car sits for 23 hours a day.

It does sound similar.  I'm not sure if this is related or not, but I couldn't initially get my cd player to work either.  I eventually got it to work after changing disks, but I had the heater going full blast the whole time, so it may have warmed up enough to work by the time I got the 2nd disk in.

I can buy the starter motor not turning over at all because of a weak battery or poor connection, because I've experienced that many times in the past, but the accessories always worked fine.  My gut says the combination of cold and frost was a problem, although I don't understand how.  What about this - if the cog in the starter motor can hang up all on its own, can a little frost keep it from deploying?

Was the security light on when it wouldn't start? The key security chip could have been wet making the Passkey system prevent cranking (and the radio from working)?

If you have low voltage, you get the 'click click click' because the relay won't stay engaged. The starter will break out of any frost or ice unless you have submerged the car and frozen it at the same time...

Here's one to ponder. I fired up the Riv for winter duty after sitting a few months. The old Optima Red Top battery was on its last leg last winter, so I thought I'd start fresh with a new Duralast (prices on Optimas have gone through the roof lately). Checked over a few things, fluids, changed spark plugs. Car started right up just like it had been run yesterday. Pretty surprising.

So after a couple days, it got cold (15ºF). I go to start the car and it clicks. Not "click-click-click-click", but just a single click, like the solenoid was engaging, but the motor wasn't spinning. I tried about 5 times, then went in the house to think. Voltage read 11.6 - not perfect, but enough to start the car, even on a cold day. After 10 minutes, I decided to try again. Started right up without hesitation.

Next couple days the car started and ran fine, getting me to work and back, etc. Temperatures increased through the week.

On Friday, it was wet and 45ºF. I got in the car to leave work, "click". Very surprising, now thinking this could be a solenoid issue. Took a rod of aluminum bar stock and tapped the solenoid a couple times. Started right up.

Monday morning it got cold again (6ºF). I was a little uncertain what would happen, but the car started on the first try. That evening leaving from work, I get the "click" again. Voltage was 11.6 again. This time I tried tapping on the solenoid, no dice. Waited 15 minutes, tried rolling the car back & forth, tried clicking the key over and over, heating the battery, heating the engine, then tried a jump start. Nothing worked.

Today I picked up a new solenoid and installed it on my lunch. I reused the old starter motor. Car started up no problem. A couple hours later I drove the car for about 10 minutes, then tried to restart. "click" (!). Then one more "click" and then it started right up. It's a little warmer and voltage was 12.3 this time. I'm beginning to doubt the solenoid was bad.

Battery is fresh and wires are clean and solidly connected. Car starts and runs perfectly once it can turn over.

Ideas? I have a few, but would like to read your thoughts. Thanks!

I thought the "starter click of doom" was usually the windings in the actual starter motor dying? And if it starts after giving it a wack you are just jarring it enough to work itself out a few more times? I always heard that if giving it a wack sorts things out you have around 5-10 starts left before needing to replace it. It's happened 3 times to me on different GM cars with original starters, each time just as you describe, and each time I replaced the starter. No problems after a new one. As far as what is actually dying on them? I dunno, windings, solenoid... The one time I took one apart and you could see that one of the permanent magnets had slipped so there was a huge gap and dead spot.

Yep. It's the Starter itself, not the solenoid. The single "click" is the click of doom. If it didn't click, then the solenoid might be bad. The single click you're hearing is the solenoid.

Yes, I am going to replace the starter now. The reason I replaced the solenoid first, the click does two things: it acts as a relay to flow power to the motor, and it mechanically moves the shaft to engage the flywheel. I knew the shaft was moving, but wasn't sure if the relay was passing current to the motor. I'd read the contacts can wear out.

It seems I guessed wrong, but it was $30 and an hour wasted. A new starter is $150-up (no, I'm not buying the $50 rebuilt special), so I didn't want to take that leap without knowing. Funny though, it's acting better now. Car has started about 5 more times since putting the new solenoid in. I know it's just good luck, and I plan to swap out for a new unit today or tomorrow.

I got 277,800 miles out of the OE starter!

Thanks for the advice. You've all persuaded me!

I would remove and reconnect the battery terminals. Make sure a thread isn't crossed and they are nice and tight. Anytime I've dealt with the 'single click' problem, it's been a battery terminal.

That was the first thing I checked, since I just installed a new battery a week earlier. I disconnected and reconnected the battery again to install the solenoid.

Lights are bright at night.

The car either starts up perfectly, or it clicks 3 or 4 times, then starts perfectly. Seems completely random.

Not ideal terms, but.. good to hear about your Riv, AA!

It's a minor hitch. I don't feel let down at all. That old starter was tired, but the rest of the car seems alive and well.

AA wrote:

It's a minor hitch. I don't feel let down at all. That old starter was tired, but the rest of the car seems alive and well.

Does this mean you have been commuting with the GTO?

I installed a new solenoid and luckily the starter decided to work a bit longer. It starts about half the time. The rest of the time it takes 4-5 tries, then turns over. There's a new starter in a box on my passenger floor, but I won't have time to tackle it till next week.

Parked the GTO at work to use as a back-up, but so far haven't needed to use it.