Karma's Riv

Well, there has been a few of things done. Most noteworthy are the brand new LS7 lifters, the fully aluminum valve covers, the nice rebuilt injectors, and the new PCV filter.

I'll do a service review for the Mr.Injector service I got in a separate thread. But I'll say here that they picked up around 30% more flow.



I dunno where the pics for the lifter install went, so whenever I find them they will go up.

The VC are from the 3800 Camaro are aluminum and are a nice direct fit for us series on guys. woo!








The PCV breather is pretty interesting. I wanted something to keep the oil vapor out of the intake and also wanted something that can bolt right into the stock location. My prototype is made with Delrin and works very very well. Basically, it replaces the normal PCV cover, and routes out a line out to a filter/catch-can and then back in again.

Here we see the new cap. The next version I think I would have the hose barb both facing to the right. I did it on both sides at first because I was going to have the catch can in the middle at the back, but then decided that an oil can right over the rear exhaust manifolds might not be the best way to do things. So i moved it to the side.

The underside has a machined nub for the bit of hose that connects to the outlet of the PCV valve. Clearances make this almost touching the valve when the spring is fully compressed.

The whole assembly looks like this. The hose slides a bit tighter when the spring compresses and the cap is screwed down.

A wee bit of cutout gasket maker, with the PCV in and hose on it.

And the whole assembly. Eventually I'll change the clear tubing to some nice thick black vacuum line.

It actually intercepts a good amount of oil. There is almost a 1/4" of oil in the filter. I've done one 2 hour drive, and maybe 4 in town trips since installing.(usually pretty spirited driving..well ok, tons of WOT..)

Overall I'm thrilled with the results. It bolts right in, and does its job. I might do a future version with the barbs both facing the same direction, no plug in the top, and do some nicer chamfering on the edges. This was really just a quick prototype. So who else wants one? They only take a couple of hours to make.

Anyway.. thats the update, should have more pics n things later.

Wow!

Very nice,many should want one.Seems like alot of oil, for that many miles no?

Very KOOL!

flyineagle96 wrote:

Very nice,many should want one.Seems like alot of oil, for that many miles no?

I was kinda thinkin' that too. does the car normally burn some oil?
I have a catch can setup also that will be going on whenever the genV and IC do. I like the pcv cover piece you made there. I'd be interested but I already tapped NPT fittings into my lower intake and blower for the PCV.

eh, its not too much. The bottom is cupped, and there is a bolt/plug thing I put in that takes a bunch of space down there. Theres not actually much oil in there. I'll keep an eye on it. From what I've read many people who do the PCV filter mod seem to be surprised how much oil actually gets intercepted.

Very cool Andrew. So since you specified that the VCs are a direct for the Series I guys, I assume that it precludes that they do not fit the Series II?

Series 2 valve covers have an extra set of "dips" along the top for the injectors. Series one doesn't have these since we inject in the LIM instead of the head. So no, not for series 2. Woo! Finally something S1 has that S2 does not!

Pic's with the covers on, also how are you liking the catch can? Did it improve power? No updates?

bump

This has been too long coming, but I finally got off my ass and took some driving vids. Its nothing spectacular video wise, just a quick recording of in-car and me playing with the SC whine trying to stay under the speed limit. Half these shots have the windows closed, half with windows open. But there is really no way to tell the difference. Its not the fastest thing on the road, but its IMO one of the best sounding!


And sorry James here are pics:



The polish didn't really stand up to the heat on the VC's, but I only used garden variety metal polish. I think I need to take a page from the motorcycle and auto detailing world and try a nice liquid polish and really rub it in.

The covers look good,car sounds strong like my sons bonnie.Now take a vid of the speedometer,then we 'll know just how strong she really is!!!

Beautiful sound Andrew! Tunnels were made for car nuts; going through mountains and hills was a side effect.

Sounds wicked! I can't wait to throw the Karma M90 on mine
BTW how do you have an STB that looks like it fits right??

1:29 = GOLD


I'm excited for my Karma M62!

Thanks for the comments everyone!

turtleman wrote:

BTW how do you have an STB that looks like it fits right??

(Because I custom made it )

Looks and sounds sweet, man! Seems like it picks up speed rather quickly, too. Just a small thing, but maybe you prefer it the way things are - if you want to, you can route the rear wires under the SC snout, at least that's what I did on my Series II. I like being able to see the blower without anything covering it. It's just a personal taste, not right or wrong.

Ah, I've done it both ways for the wires. The m62 is REALLY tight under there, since I've already got the wiring harness going under instead of over the snout. Add to that the alternator bracket that bolts to the m62, the smaller blower sitting much lower... The plug wires do fit, but you have to practically remove the SC to change plug wires. .. but everything will change once I get the jag m112 all worked out.

I figured you'd looked into it. When you get that jag blower in there, maybe ask sqrivi to design you a polycarb window (like ZR-1) so you can see that art beneath the hood!

Hey man where can i get a "Warning" window sticker like that?

Well, I guess we will see what I get done this winter. Got big plans for the car.

A week ago I picked up a spare engine. Paid 350$ for the whole deal, 80K miles on it. Stored indoors. I'm hoping everything is in good shape when I pull it apart. With any luck the pistons will stay in and it will just get a partial rebuild. Also, since its such low miles, I'm hoping its a late 95 model with the lighter series 2 crank. But I won't know that for sure until I get the timing cover off and see how many bolts the cam thrust plate has. Regardless its a much lower mileage version of my current engine, and might just be better.

Once on the stand the block will be stripped most of the way down and checked out. Heads off and ported/rebuilt. I'm going to order a custom ground cam from crow cams so I can still use my 1.8 rockers. Basically I'll be asking for their most aggressive series one(their series 2) cam, but the lift changed to match the rockers. The block will also probably get a new timing set, aluminum oil pan adapted, new tensioners, and harmonic balancer.

The HB *might* get machined to take an 8 rib belt. I'll want this for the Jag m112 anyway, but I'm not sure how much money I want to throw at it. There is a series 1 8-rib balancer I could get, but its pricey. Also the longer term future plan is a 4.2 litre stroker kit; which needs a normal series 2 balancer. So spending a lot of money for a special series one HB that I won't be able to use in the future doesn't make sense. But, I have a shop, and could probably adapt a stock HB for 8 rib like the old ZZP ones were.

My guess timing wise, is that I'll keep the m62 for most of these changes, drop the new engine in, and then work off the old block for the m112 adaptation. But who knows. If this goes really fast and the block is just sitting there ready to go and begging for a bigger SC... Most of my plans for the new block, providing it doesn't need an entire rebuild, aren't that time consuming; especially on an engine stand.

When I actually do the swap, and have everything apart, the transmission will go to be fully rebuilt with the Transgo shift kit, Sonnex valves/parts, Raybestos clutches, and custom high stall torque converter. I'll buy the parts, and just take the transmission in to get it all installed. I can save a bundle not having to pay someone to take the transmission out and back in the car as well as sourcing the parts myself.(this being Canada and all.) I've sourced a bunch of info from the 60degv6 sites, as they've had lots of experience in building up the 4t60e.

So yeah, big changes, I've got to be careful and make the money I spend work for me. How much I decide to spend will undoubtedly determine how fast this goes.

And since it always gets asked "Why the series one?":
-The direction for this engine is a 4.2 litre stroker. Hands down the S1 block is better for this in high boost application than the S2. Even stroked, the S1 pistons won't be as short as stock S2 pistons.
-Playing with the series one requires lots of custom work. I love custom work.
-Few people work on it. Its uncommon/rare. This is the same reason I love the Riviera.
-Many people are stuck with the series one because they cannot afford a car with the S2. This is not the case for me. The car is not a daily driver, its a toy.
-Even if the body (God forbid) dies, there are unlimited things I could put the engine in.
-If I seem to encounter repeating 4t60e failures, there are a ton of alternative options I can play with.

Anyway, Thanks for reading...

Way to go, Karma...Keep us posted !!!

this is exactly why I look up to karma riv wise i have to get my own house with room to do work living in an apt complex blows....I'm at odds with my gf about her riv she wants it to stay more or less "normal" but her car sounds so good ... I can't help but want to make it faster....


anyway I really wanna see how your plans turn out best of luck

sooooo...
On topic of my low milage S1 engine rebuild...

I've been in contact with Crow Cams about what cam they reccomend. Through research I found that the cam they suggest is actually a custom grind that they did for a Holden VP in 2010. This was a Holden series 2 3800, which means it was the same as our NA series one 3800. It had its compression reduced to 8.5-1 so it could be supercharged more realibly and ran a centrifugal supercharger. They had the cam custom ground to spec for the engine. At 10 PSI it dynoed 300HP at the rear wheels, which is respectable since the centri supercharger only makes its full boost at the end of the RPM. It also did the 1/4 in 12 sec.(but that part is apples to oranges since the commodore is RWD, different transmission, different weight, etc,)


MODEL TYPE VP V/6 COMMODORE 3800
---------------------------CROW COMPUTER CARD----------------------------
| PART NUMBER 7741430RH Date 1-APR-10 |
| Cam type: Hydraulic Roller type Profile |
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Advance Ground on Cam: 1 Lobe separation: 114 |
| .050 VALVE TIMING |
| Inlet opens: -9 BTDC Closes: 37 ABDC .050 Duration: 207 |
| Exhaust Opens: 44 BBDC Closes: -6 ATDC .050 Duration: 218 |
| ADVERTISED VALVE TIMING |
| Inlet opens: 18 BTDC Closes: 64 ABDC ADV Duration: 262 |
| Exhaust Opens: 72 BBDC Closes: 22 ATDC ADV Duration: 274 |
| Inlet lobe lift at TDC on the over lap:.033 |
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Valve lift Inlet: .5078 Inlet Rocker Ratio: 1.60 |
| Valve lift Exhaust: .5051 Exhaust Rocker Ratio: 1.60 |
| |
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| RECOMENDED VALVE TRAIN COMPONENTS |
| Valve Springs: Spring height: Collets: |
| Retainers: Pushrod: Lifters: |
| H/D Timing Set: |
| ----------------------------------------------------------------------|

Lift on inlet and exhaust is .5078 and .5051 @ 1.6, so 0.317375 / 0.3156875 base lift.
From a lift point of view that drops it in the area of a VS cam.

While that is what Crane Cams reccomend, and they have the setup to make it, I'm wondering about putting my 1.8 rockers on top of it. That gives me .571275/.5682375 which puts me right between the Intense stage 3-4 blower cam.

What I would end up with is a little less than the people who have run 1.8 rockers on the S1X and XP cams. ... If the series one heads can manage that much lift, and that part I don't know.

What do people think? Go for it? If I can't get the heads to manage that lift, I can always run 1.6 rockers. Maybe sell my old 1.8 rockers to recoup costs. But currently since I HAVE 1.8's, and that cam looks like the only deal in town, I'm in a position to try it out. Anyone know what max lift the series one heads can manage? GN heads(which are similar)? Anyone know exactally what gets machined on series 2 heads for extra lift? I know the upper limit for s2 heads is .600...I has a machineshop, so I could make this work.

You should let me know if you decide to sell your yella terras. I have been looking for some, but i don't want to drop the 350 dollars on them.

also, A cammed series one would be really cool! So where would you get the 1.6 roller rockers? Are you talking about the stock rockers?