help me pick a new head unit and speakers please!

I'm ready to replace the busted stereo in my '98. My requirements:

Double-din (not absolutely but I hate the empty space)
External audio input (1/8 jack on front is best but RCAs in back is okay)
Somewhat cool
Not too expensive
Remote (integrate with PAC/SWIX and strg wheel cntrls)

Also, I like the idea of the speakers AA listed a few threads back... I don't really want to add an amp/sub, but it's good to have some decent kick coming out of the back. Front/Rear speakers, recommendations/experiences?

I'm not an audiophile, but I want it to sound good. External audio input is because I have Sirius (external) and iPhone/iPod and I want it to remain 'universal'. I don't want an iPod controller.

Also, if someone could guide me to a PAC-SWIX writeup with the HVAC working I'd appreciate it. I know some of this stuff is here, but I'm too lazy to search right now I'll search around later tonight and clean up some of this. I usually shop on Crutchfield but they don't offer a lot of double-dins.

Thanks!
-Derek

I've kind of got my eye on this:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Source/CD-Players/Pioneer/FH-P8000BT

I've always liked Pioneer...

I'll just speak from my experiences. I'm a semi-audiophile. I listen to music 24/7, play in 7-9 different bands depending on the time of the year, and listen to all kinds of music.

For speakers, I love my basic Alpine SPS-69C3 6x9's. They have amazing bass, almost unbelievable for a 6x9, and for as cheap as I got em, they're perfect. Mids are excellent and highs aren't fatiguing to the ear and to me, sound almost perfect. For 5.25", I recently purchased JL Audio TR525-CXi speaks and they're basically the shit, I love them and they're a gigantic upgrade treble-wise from stockers.

My past 5.25" ones were Kicker KS5250's. I think they had just been released when I bought them. Their treble was really, really loud and you could crank the volume and you could hear it a ways away and I loved that, but I thought I'd upgrade. The JL's treble is much smoother.

My head unit is a Pioneer DEH-P6900UB or something like that. It's pretty cool, got it new, no problems, easy to put in and easy to figure out. It's single din. I don't know very much about double dins in these cars. I don't want to try with them, they seemed like too much of a hassle, and you may find that when you purchase one it has to stick out beyond being flush with the woodgrain around the radio opening in order to fit adequately.

Honestly, I wouldn't bother, but if you want the look, and I don't blame you, go for it. Otherwise, get a pop-out touchscreen that only takes up a single din space. Could save time. But my pioneer is awesome. Pioneer makes some of the best receivers out there, especially their touchscreens, so I'd recommend them. Mine has a 7-band EQ, 88-watt amp built in, automated face, etc. It's cool.

All I need is a good sub or two right now, but as of this minute, my 6x9's are doing a fantastic job.

By the way, I LOVE that head unit concept, the FH-P8000BT. I'll be honest with you, after I bought my current HU, that came out a few months later and I was like "Shit, why couldn't I have been more patient?" If that can sit flush with the receiver opening, or if you can make it sit in there somehow and make it look good, I say go for that one, you won't have any regrets.

Thanks for the comments. I'm pretty much settled on that head unit. And the double-din writeup is very helpful too!

I'm still torn on the speakers. I can get a decent deal on the Kappas on Amazon, not sure if I should go 2 way or 3 way...

Honestly up front , id go with a decent set of component speakers. I like my coax infinitis ok ( reference but still ) but i have never been completely satisfied. Maybe the kappas would be good. I don't know. Im a bit of an audiophile i guess but for you maybe they'd be fine. The reference 6x9s i am happy with though.

Don't get me wrong , the coax up front aren't bad , but they just seem lacking to me. For the average listener they're probably more than adequate.

As for head units , i love my sony , but that is a nice looking double din and i am a fan of pioneer products.

i would say spend the most time on decidng which headunit you want, because you could buy shity speakers but your hedunit will make them sound great. think about what you want your head unit to control...ipod, usb, blue tooth, dvd/cd changer, hd radio, sirus, etc. if it's hard for you to keep up with all of your cds, like me, then you will prolly want to go with a unit that is usb or ipod supported. built in is a lot better, because some units you will have to buy extra hardware for. i have had excellent experience with pioneer especailly their preimer brand. just remember the things that you use your unit for the most you want built in already the other stuff you can always go out and buy the hardware for. then if you wan to run an amp and subs then you want a unit with a hi volt preout. the more volts the preouts have the less the amp has to work. i had to scarfice some volts on mine. the original unit i wanted had 6 preouts but was not usb capable, so i settle for one that did but it had 4 volts, which still isnt bad. you also have double din and single din, but you lose security with the double(face is normally not removable).

as far as speakers go, it depends on what you want out them. coxials are okay. i had a set of sony xplods i bought from best that sounded good off my old pioneer unit. if you go with a set of components you will never push those speakers unless you run a 2 or 4 channel amp. this gets a lil trickier. say you decide to go with a set 5.25 components and a set 6.5 components for the rear. the fronts are 150 rms per speaker totalling 300watts rms. now your rears are 200rms per speaker totalling 400watts rms. this means that you will need to find a multi channel amp that will run about 150 watts rms into 4 channels. or you could go with 2 two channel amps one running the fronts at 15 rms per channel and he rears at 200 rms per channel.

go to your local car audio store(not best buy or similar) like custom sounds. i like them because you can do a lay away plan with them. you can test out 90% of their products before you buy them which makes a huge difference.

me i would go with boston acoustics or mb quartz, i have personally heard those t2 components and there is nothing else like it. hope i was helpful. check my sig i have my audio mods in there.....i fucking love my radio

Alright, I've never gotten into all this custom car radio stuff and my parents never did it to any of their cars (We had a Nissan 240SX that had a custom radio but it was preinstalled...). I'm looking for one that (Correct me on any of this terminology or anything as I don't know this stuff) is a double din that is basically a big screen. I don't want the kinds that pop out or anything like that, I want it to be a big screen that stays in place and that's how it mounts (Almost appearing like the GPS systems when you order them with the car that are mounted in the console).

I have some questions about these as well. Do they have any kind of removeable face plate or anything like that? I really don't want it to have a removable plate because I know criminals like to break in and steal radios so I don't want it to be one they can just pop off and take or that I'd have to hide somewhere. I know someone on here had a picture where they had one mounted just like what I'm describing but I don't remember who. Is there any way to actually get a radio like this that has a GPS built in? Also, I've seen some with the speedometer and other stuff - is that a common or special feature?

Just looking to see what this thing would cost me. I know they're anywhere from $250-$1000 and even some more than that so I'd like to get an idea what this in particular would cost. I am an audiophile so quality sound is very important to me!

I have been looking at an Alpine IVA-W505. It is a double din unit that can also accept Alpine's PMD-B200 handheld satellite unit. I lke the Alpine because I already have an Alpine head unit and I will not have to change the iPod connector or Steering wheel control interface.

There are other nice units by Kenwood and Panasonic.

That looks nice and is along the lines I'm looking for but ouch on the cost. I saw that with the navigation stuff that's like $1700. I'm not going from stock radio to $1700, that's way too drastic to me. Do they (or anyone) have something similar with less features? I also saw the Alpine IVA-W205 which looked a lot alike and can be had for around $650-700.

Even still, the $500 or less price range is really what I'd be comfortable with. I know it might not be the right price range for these things, but it's what I'd like to spend. The navigation part is just a neat thing but not necessary at all. If they made one that has a big screen like that and just plays music and DVDs that'd be good to me, none of all the features these things have because I wouldn't even know what to do with half of them.

EDIT: I just saw this little video:
http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Photos/Default.aspx?i=500IVAW505&g=300

Is our radio that easy to take out? If so, I'm not liking that. Couldn't anyone with those tools take it out then? I mean, if it comes with the new head unit then any crook could have the same tools to take it out. This is actually a time I would prefer the complication of having to remove the dash to install it but I have no clue. Someone correct me?

I'm a bit surprised at Infinity's choice to make a 2 ohm speaker. That means it'll run twice as loud given a position on the volume knob, but I'll reach the limit of the amp sooner, right? But in the end the max volume will be the same, because my amp will start tripping around the same wattage anyhow... right? I'm a bit puzzled, but if they work they work. I can always ditch them if I don't like the way they sound.

I'm pretty much decided on that head unit now, it does everything I want.

Not sure how credible it is, but according to the fit guide on Best Buy's website that Pioneer won't fit on our cars. It looks like it will so I don't see how they can say that and I'm pretty sure I've seen someone else with a double din in their Riv on here. They make it sound like pretty much only single dins will fit the Riv which I really question.

Yeah, crutchfield says the same. I'm pretty sure it's the depth that they say that for. I'm ready to cut in back...

Tuning in late to this thread, but here's my $.02:

Quote :

i would say spend the most time on decidng which headunit you want, because you could buy shity speakers but your hedunit will make them sound great.

If you value sound quality, I disagree somewhat with the above statement. There is a myth run rampid in the car audio world that all stock head units are poor, and also somewhat popular is the notion that speakers are a secondary component that should be obtained at a discount rate.

Imo, the truth is, speakers are the item that get skimped on most, and in the case of the Riviera, they are the weak point in the system, not the head. If you buy any inexpensive brand name head, you're fine.

For sound quality listeners, my opinion is that speakers (fronts) are ultra critical, while the source unit is secondary. Even an inexpensive aftermarket CD player is going to sound very good if you put emphasis on the front speakers.

If you want booming bass and thump, the primary concern is a good amp/subwoofer combo. Again, the head unit is a secondary concern. Most important is the subwoofer enclosure design, choice of bass driver, and quality power delivery.

Only if you want to compete in car stereo events, or have money to burn, would I recommend a high-end head like a Nak, Eclipse or Alpine. The cost for such units can improve sound quality, but you will not enjoy it without equally great speakers. Most listeners won't notice a difference anyway. If you value the brand name, the look/feel of a high-end head, or the crossover/EQ features, I can see spending a bit more. But to just say a $1000 head sounds "better" than a $300 one is somewhat misleading. Nowadays, many stock heads can rival the aftermarkets. I am so happy with our stock head that when my first one died, I bought another one for $120.

I would recommend you set a budget. Say it's $1000. If you want sound quality, I would spend about half on front speakers. I would really spend that much, because speakers have a MUCH bigger impact on the sound than the head. People will say all day long that without a good source, you can't build a good sound. True, but most heads are good enough. The digital/analog conversion is easy. All heads do it pretty well. The critical area is the conversion of electrons into sound. Speakers are so important, and placement is also important.

I recommend the Infinities to folks who want something decent for a couple hundred bucks. If you really want to listen in your car, check into the JL Audio high-end coaxials. If you can afford it, look at separates from brands like Focal, Diamond, MB Quart, JL, Boston, Alpine, Eclipse, or Infinity. Of all the brands, JL Audio is probably the safest choice. Not cheap, but very good value. While some brands add a sonic character, JL tends to be simply flat, transparent, neutral.

Notice I don't talk about rear speakers. As far as I'm concerned, they don't exist. Keep your stockers, save your money - unless you want the sound to come from the rear. If that's the case, most of what I just wrote really doesn't apply. If you listen to sound from any direction besides up front, the concepts of realism, staging, and clarity are null and void.

Thanks AA -

One of the reasons I'm even considering the infinity kappas is your recommendation here... I have no complaints about the rear speakers, as they are OK. Maybe I'll just leave them be and save another $80. I wasn't sure how they would hold up to a decent head unit...

If your going double din, definitely go Pioneer. That unit looks nice also.

Myself, I love the OEM look. The only thing I would consider is getting a lcd that would mount flush in there and give me am/fm/sat/nav.

AA wrote:

about rear speakers. As far as I'm concerned, they don't exist. Keep your stockers, save your money - unless you want the sound to come from the rear. If that's the case, most of what I just wrote really doesn't apply. If you listen to sound from any direction besides up front, the concepts of realism, staging, and clarity are null and void.

X2 every word until I got here.
My opinion is this depends on how you listen to music to an extent but I think it would be rather goofy to spend good money one a head and front speakers and completely ignore the stock rears when they are now what I'd call mismatched. This mismatch of the bland dual-cone 10ohm speaker to the new head that is designed for 4ohm multi-driver speakers will further eliminate the rears from the system as they will be even quieter and less lively with the new head.
In my opinion, the rears are completely necessary. I do not feel that they are just there for the rear seat passengers or there just to add some bass to the stock system. They are part of the stage too. What I was talking about when I mentioned "how you listen to music" was my case because I like to listen to my music very loud much of the time. I don't mind driving on the highway with my windows wide open and blasting music. A lot of people can't even stand that, much less enjoy it so that's why it depends. In my case, I pretty much couldn't live without the rear speakers.

I do agree on trying to focus on the fronts though and there is no need to get very expensive 4-5 way rears or anything. Get something on the cheap side for the rear. For it's natural-sounding characteristic, the JL is a good choice if you got the money.

The stock rears are 4 ohm btw. don't know what year they started doing that but my '96 G30 also had 4 ohm stock rears to my surprise.

I like to turn it up but I don't need to rattle windows. I like some thump from time to time but I don't play bassmasters or other low bass stuff, I don't need to win any shows. I just like it to punch me when I crank it up but as a whole sound, not punching the people in the cars/houses around me.

The 205 is about $150 less expensive than the 505. I have gotten a quote for a 505 and Blackbird for $1300. The advantage is the Blackbird (PMD-B200) can be taken out and used as a portable in other cars. However, I agree it is a bit pricey. Maybe that is why I do not have one yet. It seems that every time I save up something else goes wrong with one of my cars.


You might also look at Dual and Jensen for the price range.

deekster_caddy wrote:

Thanks AA -

One of the reasons I'm even considering the infinity kappas is your recommendation here... I have no complaints about the rear speakers, as they are OK. Maybe I'll just leave them be and save another $80. I wasn't sure how they would hold up to a decent head unit...

Try keeping the stock rears. They are 10 ohm drivers, so they pull very little power from whatever you drive them with. Say that your head unit offers 20w per channel into a 4 ohm load (very common output spec). The stock drivers will only use about 8 of those watts because of their high impedance. Contrary to common thought, amps don't "push" speakers, the speakers actually "pull" power from the amp. You can blow the rears, but it's harder than you'd think. The idea is that rear sound level is so low that they are barely noticed. They are for rear fill, that's all.

Quote :

My opinion is this depends on how you listen to music to an extent but I think it would be rather goofy to spend good money one a head and front speakers and completely ignore the stock rears when they are now what I'd call mismatched.

I used to feel this way until I listened to a few SQ competition cars with the rear speakers turned off. There is a way to use rear fill to compliment the fronts, but most people don't bother. If you just apply the same signal to the rear as the front, you will find that the lower the rear volume level, the more defined and accurate and targeted the stereo image is to the dashboard area. As you increase rear fill output level, the stereo image becomes more and more degraded until the sound image feels "encompassing" rather than "focused".

I agree it depends on how you listen to music. If you don't like a focused front stage, turn up the rear speakers!

Quote :

This mismatch of the bland dual-cone 10ohm speaker to the new head that is designed for 4ohm multi-driver speakers will further eliminate the rears from the system as they will be even quieter and less lively with the new head.
In my opinion, the rears are completely necessary. I do not feel that they are just there for the rear seat passengers or there just to add some bass to the stock system. They are part of the stage too.

I don't buy the whole mismatch bit. My rear fill output is so low that they are just barely audible. In early home theater surround systems, the rear channels for a long time were single driver, limited range, low-power drivers. A few even diffused the sound by reflecting off walls, etc. The idea was that rear sound is different than front direct sound. It looses part of its sonic character because it's supposed to be an echo. Rear fill was maybe 15 watts and it sounded great. Today, surround channels contain a lot more dynamic material, so high- powered, quality speakers are required, but if you notice the rear channels do not duplicate the front channels - they now have their own tracks.

And this is really the whole point. If you want to use rear channel sound to enhance the sound image, you must use some form of processor to delay the rears by a few milliseconds. Unless you do this, the rear sound will distract rather than compliment the sound quality. Some aftermarket heads offer this technology, and I'm all for it. If one were to use delay to drive the rears properly, I could see turning them up a bit, matching drivers, etc. But most of us aren't going to go this far. I'm not, anyway. Most of us are content in just sending the rears a copy of the front stage, which I think spoils things when you turn them up to high. Since the path lengths from the front and rear speakers to you ears are about the same, you run into some time alignment problems. Your ears are very sensitive in this area, and easily confused.

Quote :

What I was talking about when I mentioned "how you listen to music" was my case because I like to listen to my music very loud much of the time. I don't mind driving on the highway with my windows wide open and blasting music. A lot of people can't even stand that, much less enjoy it so that's why it depends. In my case, I pretty much couldn't live without the rear speakers.

I listen the same way, but by putting most of my resources into the front drivers, I can get just as much output level from my doors. Don't need the rears for output because they are for fill only, and because the fronts are rockin' hard without distorting - don't need rears for output. If I want a little extra for the rear passengers, I can fade to the back, but I do notice my listening is compromised.

Disclaimer: my opinions are based on the preferences of the "purist" listener. Purists like a flat, extended response, ultra-accurate realism (focused stereo image), and bass that's critically damped for quickest transient response.

The garage band or "studio" type listener likes to hear sound with distortion, from all directions, without the concern for accuracy. Tweaking the EQ randomly for cool effects is desirable.

Then there's the bass-head, who likes loud, boomy bass complimented by super bright treble and all at a very loud level.

All of these are valid types of listeners. It's important to decide which group you belong to.

Our head unit is not that bad. If price is an issue, you can upgrade in this order as your budget permits.

Component system up front. 2 way is all you need. The best sound IMHO is to have the soundstage up front.

Get some form of Sub. This will require an amp as well. Before buying the amp know how far you are planning on taking the system. I started out with a 4 channel amp. I bridged two channels for the sub, and a channel each for the fronts. I drove the rears with the head unit amp. Sounded much better than stock.

Head Unit. This is when I upgraded the the amp to pre-out after market HU and a 5 channel amp. Later got a more powerful digital 5 channel amp.

Rears last. The stocks are good for fill but an upgrade here is only $100 or so.

Good advice.

I think you'd be impressed with what you could get out of a used Alpine cda-9815/cda-9813 or cda-9835/cda-9833.. They are single din, but can be installed in a 2 din faceplate. You can find them between $100 and 200 on ebay. The ones that finish with 3 are the "lesser" models, but I think they are only display features.

They are fairly powerful head units and you can get very respectable sound out of them without using an external amplifier. 27 and 26 watts RMS (60 peak) x 4 channels respectively.

I have a CDA-9857 with a pocket. I was worried about the look of the pocket bit it is very handy for sunglasses.

hmmm, okay I see what you are all saying. It would be very easy to add a small sub in the back, so about the front speakers then... would I be better off with an amp to drive the sub and fronts? Can you just bridge the rear output? How powerful of an amp do I need? If the head unit can drive 22W peaking at 50 do I even need an amp on the fronts? How does that change with the 2 ohm kappas I'm looking at?
link How much amp do I want with these?