Aurora/other V8 engine swap?

Automotive.com's list of least reliable cars for 2010:

#1 2010 Toyota Tundra
#2 2010 Nissan Xterra
#3 2010 Nissan Frontier
#4 2010 Nissan Pathfinder
#5 2010 Toyota Tacoma
#6 2010 Toyota Sequoia
#7 2010 Toyota Camry
#8 2010 Nissan Armada
#9 2011 Chevrolet Cruze
#10 2010 Suzuki Equator

Source: http://www.automotive.com/worst-cars/least-reliable-cars/index.html

How many of these vehicles use OHC V-8 engines similar to Northstar? Answer: #8, #6, #5, and #4. How many are domestic? Just one: #9, the least expensive model GM makes. Yet people are paying $30k, $40k, $50k, 60k for the chance to drive these horrible vehicles, thinking they're paying for quality - recall after recall. Hear anyone talking about how bad Toyota and Nissan OHC V-8 engines are? Nope. They're Japanese, so they must be good. If there was a GM or Ford with Northstar or 4.6L on that list, everyone would be calling it crap.

Consumer Reports (I know, take with grain of salt) had this to say last year:

"While European reliability had been improving, momentum seems to have stalled. All Porsche and Volvo models are rated average or better. But Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz are among the worst automakers overall."

Isn't it interesting how Audi, BMW, and MB are regarded by so many as some of the most quality engineered, performance capable vehicles on the road today? They command very high premiums, and they hold their resale value better than any of the domestic brands. And yet when these cars fail, the owners willingly pay the costs for repair, or they trade in on a new replacement. All of these brands continue to manufacture inefficient, OHC V-8 engines under the perception of "European refined elegance and performance".

And amazingly, we thing the Northstar was a pile of poop.

Whats your point? To hell with Reports. they're useless. The real world report is gauged by the cars that come into your shop.that's the Real World Report.

And besides,A Northstar engine is a Northstar engine.It has nothing to do with similarities. Thats like saying my Crotch is similar to Elvise's crotch.

Sorry, but the real world report is not gauged by cars coming though a single shop in one location. That's the local mechanics' report. Reports come from data collected from millions over a large population. If enough people say their Toyota V-8s are blowing up, it gets reported. However, it doesn't always get enough attention.

Northstar got lots of attention, because it was a domestic engine. Everyone wanted to see if GM could compete with the Germans, and apparently the GM engineers fooled a lot of experts who thought differently than you. I've also heard reports from owners who are still very happy with their high-mile Northstars. Like Audi owners, they're willing to pay the extra maintenance required to run this engine a long time.

A Northstar is an OHC V-8 engine. The Asian and European OHC V-8 engines also have problems. They are not much better, imo. I'm not saying it has to do with similarities between the engine designs, I'm saying it has to do with the buyers' perception. People are willing to say the import V-8s are great, and at the same time say the Northstar is crap. Now, if we realize that many OHC V-8s on the market right now are not any better for reliability than a 15 year-old Northstar, then why single out the older GM product?

One of the big problems with the Northstar V8 was that it was put in Cadillacs, and consequently babied its entire life. Those higher performance seals will shrink up quick if the engine doesn't get wrung out every now and then, but the vast majority of Northstar owners would never even think of doing that. If you can find one that was actually driven in its life, then that would probably be a much safer bet.

The Northstar engine is just plain awful.No amount of stats or reviews or the occasional happy customer who has not had a problem ever will change that.it is a throw away engine at best. GM could have made a better and more reliable engine for sure.But the dumb asses sitting at their draft table thinking they can re engineer the world were wrong. The Northstar engine is not a rebuildable engine.If it could be,it would be cost prohibitive anyway.A gasket repair starts at $1500 or more,and depending on what they find,could go up to $7000! for a gasket change!
call me cautious but GM can take their Northstar engine and shove it up the engineers ass while I wave my Elvis crotch in their face.

Speaking of mechanics.....I don't know 1 single mechanic that has even the tiniest compliment for a N*. Every one I know thinks they're absolute garbage.....

Referencing my first post above, robo's opinion falls under "Northstar problem #2."

$1500 sounds like peanuts when you are talking about repairing an engine in a car like that. $7000 seems like a lot, but if you're paying similar amounts to fix other cars in its class, why is it such a big deal?

Compare to an Audi AWD with 4.2L DOHC V-8 engine, which made 276 HP at the same time the 300 HP Northstar came out. To fix the transmission on this car starts at $7000. It's apples for apples!

I could care less......just adding to the fire!

(My god it's hot today )

GM changed the Northstar along the way , so just exactly what northstar is junk? The early ones like the 93-95 with coolant pipes running into the alternator or the newer ones? You just can't lump all those years together as GM did things to make them more reliable and by the end of the last gen STS . I personally would never buy anything with one as the parts are expensive.

Sooooo......why is the starter under the intake again? I dont care what anyone says, i will never own a northstar powered vehicle. They are completely unreliable, VERY expensive to fix, and they arent even fast. I will even go as far as saying i will never own a cadillac because of some of the things ive seen when working on them. Blower motors are easy in tahoes, try one in an escalade...

Cadillacs are not DIY repair vehicles. They're also not for the cost conscious. Same with all the big luxury cars going for $60-90k.

AA wrote:

Cadillacs are not DIY repair vehicles. They're also not for the cost conscious. Same with all the big luxury cars going for $60-90k.

Very true. And lets face facts most people slamming the Northstar/Cadillac here would never be able to afford a new caddie anyway. Let alone repair one. Not now and not even 20 years ago would any of these people be able to buy one off a lot without sinking in debt.

Robo:
Can you please make yourself perfectly clear?

robotennis61 wrote:

The Northstar engine is just plain awful.No amount of stats or reviews or the occasional happy customer who has not had a problem ever will change that.it is a throw away engine at best. GM could have made a better and more reliable engine for sure.But the dumb asses sitting at their draft table thinking they can re engineer the world were wrong. The Northstar engine is not a rebuildable engine.If it could be,it would be cost prohibitive anyway.A gasket repair starts at $1500 or more,and depending on what they find,could go up to $7000! for a gasket change!
call me cautious but GM can take their Northstar engine and shove it up the engineers ass while I wave my Elvis crotch in their face.

:

Has anyone actually compared the Aurora / Riviera engine cradles side by side? Then, if truly compatable, looked into bolting in a late model HIGH HP NORTHSTAR into the Aurora cradle? then, if that's compatible, bolting up a nastier transmission with at least five speeds. If that all has been done then has the unit been stuffed back in the car to check the fit ?????????? I have 273,869 miles on my 95 Riv and I'd really like to know if GM (CUSTOM CAD ENGINEERING) is the only ones that ever did it or has one of us BACK YARD BOZOES actually tackled the swap and are now the local under cover street hero with all the teenie boppers somewhere out there ??????? HHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM???????????????

I sure would like to see that (and hammer it)

That's a good ?!

The cradles are the same between the riv and aurora year-to-year. I have a 98 aurora cradle in my riv. The rest I cannot personally speak for but a northstar and its respective transaxle are definitely doable.

Thanks turtleman,
I really appreciate that info. When I was a kid (i'm 50 now) I worked in a machine shop for an "OLD SCHOOL" drag racer and one thing that rubbed off was NEVER LEAVE IT STOCK. I did a lot of his wrench twisting for him and we did a few interesting engine/trans swaps over the years. I hadn't done a project in a LONG TIME when my 95 riv came along. i always wanted one and found one that looked great for 500.00 with trans issues. I now have over 6500.00 in it so I'm committed or I loose my shorts. Someone else suggested putting the body on a Corvette frame but I took a couple shots of "old ezra# 7" and talked myself right out of that. I think the northstar option is the best and will be collecting parts this summer. I may even go for the 5 sp stick like the guy did in the GTP on you-tube.
Thanks again,
GS

There is a bunch you can do to a Riv and still have it as "distinct"as some of the old school rides and even some of the newer ones.The main thing I see in regards to A Riviera is that most Riv owners are reluctant to make changes.The Riviera commands that much respect.My grandfather had a new Riv every year starting in mid 50s up until his passing in the early 70s.My grandfather kept his Rivs spicky spany and smelling nice.But he never altered anything.Me,I'm the oposite.I want to make changes to facilitate repairs and whatnot,but I'll try and keep the body as close as possible to stock.
FYI if ya didnt allready know..the northstar engine is truly one of GMs great failures.If its not a GM dealer and a northstar engine pulls into a shop all the mechanics run for cover...................

I appreciate the warning but you remember that commercial "DARN, I SHOULDA HAD A V-8" ?.
Well that's where I'm at. The car's going on 274,000 miles and when the engine goes I want to put 8 cyls under the hood with the least amount of headache possible. My old boss at the machine shop rebuilt several northstars after I left and said the later models can be made QUITE SNAPPY and reliable if you treat them right. I'm not looking to run in the 9's with the thing, just have a quick, reliable daily driver (that no one else in town has ha ha ha!)

I found this while wandering around Google. At least we have some more pictures of it.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/28/ebay-find-of-the-day-northstar-powered-1998-buick-riviera-proto/

matt270avian wrote:

I found this while wandering around Google. At least we have some more pictures of it.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/28/ebay-find-of-the-day-northstar-powered-1998-buick-riviera-proto/

.... so, I wonder who bought it and where it lives today?

Other than Just having a V8 in your car,I never understood the idea that a V8 in a Riv would be better? I've ridden in Auroras and I dont think they're that great.I really like a S/C V6,it just makes sense.

robotennis61 wrote:

Other than Just having a V8 in your car,I never understood the idea that a V8 in a Riv would be better? I've ridden in Auroras and I dont think they're that great.I really like a S/C V6,it just makes sense.

True, other than the "just for the challenge" or to be different I suppose. One could certainly get as much if not more HP from the 3800 than a small displacement V8.

Although technically a V8 ought to be a bit smoother, and the 3800 is known to be a bit rough.

But I'm happy with the SC V6. It's a pretty cool engine.

Now, rear wheel drive... that would be nice.

Al