Heated Seat Repair?

The heater in the driver side seat on the wifes 99 Riv has stopped working.

I found the heated seat control module and it clicks when you turn it on. It also clicks every 15 seconds as long as the seat heater switch in turned on.

I unbolted the module and removed the plastic cover. There is a doo-hickey that has a contact that opens when it clicks(every 15 seconds).Pictures later tonight..

Im guessing the seat element is shorted, any one have an opinion or any experience repairing this problem?

I searched and found a couple of threads, no real help there.

Thanks for any tips or advice.

Bert

I think you need a multimeter to test the seat wiring, and you should get a schematic for the wiring from a service manual. Link to that was posted elsewhere on this board althogh it'll take some effort to get to it.

As for a multimeter, you can get one that will work just fine, pretty cheap too, at a Radio Shack or at a Wal-Mart in the automotive section. Put it on "ohms" then disconnect the seat from the wiring harness and test the seat wiring.

Do you know what the resistance in the heated seat is supposed to be? Do you know how to check the wiring in the door for a short (might be there and not at the seat)? Do you know if the seat heater connector under the seat got wet or kicked or some such?

Albertj

Thanks for the reply albert.

I have the service manuals and am studying them and using a DMM trying to diagnose. Its been so long since I tried to read resistance and continuity I am having to learn again.

It seems there are two separate heating elements, one for the seat cushion and one for the seat back. Just dont seem like they would both fail simultaneously to me...

Bert

I think you're right - doubtful they would fail at the same time. That might make it a bit easier to diagnose - if one has a substantially lower resistance than the other then you know it's one of the elements.

The resistances won't be that high for heater elements, because they dissipate seat heat over a fairly big area.

If they seem to have failed at the same time then you're probably looking for physical damage to the wiring, a corroded ground, or a stuck control.

As far as one having lower reisistance than the other -- well, I'd compare them each to their counterpart in the working seat, actually. And while I had the working seat unplugged I'd take reference readings at the connector - might make it eaiser to recognize the bad circuit.

Albertj


Albertj

The heated seat control module for this car 99 Riv(driver side) is under the front of the seat on the left side. There are two small bolts that you cant hardly see but are very easy to remove once you locate them. The plastic cover will pop off. There is a retaining ring that snaps into place. You can use your finger to pop it loose, eventually...just be patient and dont break anything.




Bert

Looks like a thermal circuit breaker. It will open when sensing an overload or short, then when it cools (10 or 15 sec's) it will close again. It will repeat this cycle as long as there is a short somewhere.

Rickw wrote:

Looks like a thermal circuit breaker. It will open when sensing an overload or short, then when it cools (10 or 15 sec's) it will close again. It will repeat this cycle as long as there is a short somewhere.

Thanks, I was tinking something was shorted out and causing that to cycle. I will continue the diagnosis tomorrow(weather and schedule permitting).
Right now I am going to try and study the Repair Manual and familiarize myself with the procedure. The diagnosis procedure is very hard to understand for me. I have never used the process before this...

Bert

I have about give up. My old ass cant see when I stick my head under the seat.


I did figure out there are two connectors coming out of the seat. I assume one is for the seatback and one is for the cushion. One of them seems to cause the "switch" in the control module to cycle, so I am assuming that circuit is shorted since the cycling stops when I unplug that connector.
Probably the element in the cushion needs replaced/repaired...

The only thing I could really swap is the control module and I doubt its bad.
I tried following the directions in the Repair Manual. I think the seat will have to come out to do all of those tests. Maybe someday...Maybe let a shop do the repair...

Bert

ibmoses wrote:

Rickw wrote:

Looks like a thermal circuit breaker. It will open when sensing an overload or short, then when it cools (10 or 15 sec's) it will close again. It will repeat this cycle as long as there is a short somewhere.

Thanks, I was tinking something was shorted out and causing that to cycle. I will continue the diagnosis tomorrow(weather and schedule permitting).
Right now I am going to try and study the Repair Manual and familiarize myself with the procedure. The diagnosis procedure is very hard to understand for me. I have never used the process before this...

Bert

I was thinking that's how they do "low" power on the seat - just cycle the power on and off instead of on full time. That's how they do partial heat with electric heaters, just cycle the element on and off with a timer. Although I haven't looked at any schematics or anything, just shooting off the cuff here...

Thanks for the reply deek.

I swapped the control modules from the seats...
Same results though. Driver seat no workee, control module clicks every 15 seconds. Pass seat works fine, no clicking except when the seat heater switch in pressed...

I might try again some other time, right now I have had a gut full of that project.

Bert

Don't blame you for having had a gut full of the proejct - but your test is Good News. You know that the control module and associated wiring are OK, so your problem is in the seat. That actually simplifies things.

SO my next question is, Is there any chance something happened to the seat that would short a heater wire? Something pushed under the seat for instance?

Here is a link to a replacement seat heater:

http://www.1aauto.com/1A/SeatUpholstery/Oldsmobile/Jetstar88/1AIPS00001/751866/1/

The drill would be to pull the seat, remove the seat cover, and replace the heating elements and wiring (except connectors) with the heater in this kit. Using your factory wiring diagram is should be no problem to get the hi/lo heat feature to work fine. Might have to splice the new heaters in just behind the factory connectors. Might have to use an appropriate 3M spray-on cement to set the heaters in place and make them stay.

You probably already know that you will need a hog ring and pliers kit (available from jcwhitney.com) to reinstall the seat covers.

Good luck dealing with this whey you are back in the mood to mess with it, I think you are just about done with it though even though you will have to pull the drivers seat.

Albertj

It just seems like too much of a coincidence that both the backrest element and the cushion element both would fail simultaneously.
The pigtails on the seat wiring for the backrest element and the cushion element are so short...I dont think they could have been damaged. Eventually I will test them for short/open and confirm that the
element/wiring is/is not the problem. Hard to get a MM probe on those little suckers up under there...

The wiring harness from the floorboard with the connector that plugs into the module could have very well been damaged by something in the back floorboard when the seat was moved backwards and my wife had a bunch of woman junk piled in the floorboard. I will continue testing eventually.

If I can get someone to cut the wiring harness from the floorboard to the connector from a junk car I would cut/splice that wiring to make sure that is not the problem...

Thanks for all the replies. I would really like to fix this but I dont think I want to take the seat apart. Taking it out is one thing, I can remove it but I dont want to remove the seat covers and screw around with the element that is imbedded in the cushion...

Bert

albertj wrote:

The drill would be to pull the seat, remove the seat cover, and replace the heating elements and wiring
snip

so how do you remove the seat cover? I have just such a challenge ahead of me right now... and a seat to practice on!!

I've reupholstered 3 cars - a '69 AMC Rebel, a '75 Dodge COlt and a '90 Subaru Legacy. Legacy was toughest due to contoured seats but not a big deal.

Based on that experinece here are my comments.

To remove the cover just remove the seat from the car then use a pair of wire snips to cut off the hog rings that attache the cover to the seat frame. Reinstallation is reverse of removal, whcih is why you need hog ring pliers and rings (they are cheap). These 'hog rings' are the same as used for crab traps and securing the ends of summer sausages. You may find a 'promotional' set of rings and pliers for around $4.00. see http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50000051b~Z5Z5Z5AAJFU~P12.75~~~~~~~F for an example.

The seat heater, you will find, is not so much embedded in the padding as it is attached to it. Polyester fiberfill (the kind you buy in batted sheets at JoAnn Fabrics or sometimes WalMart) works fine for restoring the fluff around the seat heater when you pull it out. The seat heaters don't get but so-so hot.

I left my hog ring pliers at my dad's - when I did this before, I found the 45-degree pliers was all I needed, and a mess of rings. The straight ones *will* work but the 45-degree ones wil be a little easier on your wrists. Don't fret or fuss, again - these things are pretty cheap. On the Subaru I bought seat covers with heaters in them (car did not have them original) from Tammer-Suoja OY in Finland. They were pretty cool to deal with. They make covers for you based on mfg. patterns, cut on their CNC machines, from fabric they stock/you choose, make them for you and ship to your door. Thos covers laced on BUT could be hog-ringed on if you wanted (I did both). Autocraft in the US does pretty much the same thing but won't include heaters with covers last I checked. On teh Tammer covers the heaters were attached to the underside of the seat covers with spray adhesive done so as to be repositionable.

If I am not mistaken the OE Riv seat covers have a wire bound into each hem to hep you secure the hog rings onto them and the seat frames.

The parts of the seat cover that are sculpted deeply may have a wire stitched into the seam that in turn attaches to points on the wire seat frame. Not a problem, really. Just attach them back first if you have to detach them.

As for Bert's seats, I am guessing that the seat heater grids are fine and there is some problem with the connections in the wire leading to the heaters, probably at or near where they are spliced together. I am thinking the seat has to come out and cover partially detached to do the fix.

Albertj

deekster_caddy wrote:

albertj wrote:

The drill would be to pull the seat, remove the seat cover, and replace the heating elements and wiring
snip

so how do you remove the seat cover? I have just such a challenge ahead of me right now... and a seat to practice on!!

I found a "write up" on how to repair the heating elements which shows some info on how to take the seat apart. I will post the link when I get home tonight.

Bert

Thanks to both Bert and Albertj for the info. I'll be trying this soon. I'll take plenty of pictures when I go at it. First off I guess I need to find some hog rings and pliers...

Here is the link on seat disasembly:
http://regalgs.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=45241&hilit=+seat+heater+

Maybe after you fix yours I will get up the energy to tackle the wifes.
Bur first I must confirm a short or open condition in both of the elements...

Bert

Derek: I am pretty sure Aubuchon Hardware has hog rings and pliers, people use them to build/repair crab traps, and I saw them with the pliers on their web site. I think there is a store in North Reading. While you are there ask the sales clerk for a tool to *cut* them with. Cutting hog rings is an issue becuse if you miss you end up cutting whatever they are clamped to, which could be a big problem. You will need to use googlemaps or some such to find one near you, I don't live in / know MA but I know there are Aubuchons all over the state.

Albertj

Derek, does your seat have the heated backrest and cushion and if so did they both fail simultaneously?

Thanks

Bert

Yes, well... they failed together, after a smell of melting plastic whenever the heater was on for a few months. Haven't explored if it's just a melted wire or what really happened yet, I need to take the seat out to see any further under there. I looked under the edge but couldn't see any damage...

thanx, i needed this info to

Does the car need to be warmed up to a certain temp in order for the heated seat to work? In my 97 the heated seat wont work right away when starting the car. After a few minutes of driving if I push it again it seems to work just fine. Could it be a faulty wire or is this just the way it works? Thanks.

My '98 turned on instantly this morning, even though it was 17ºF. It takes about 3-5 minutes to start feeling warm, though.

Well I push it to turn on and I don't get the lit up HI or LO on the button.