FAQ: Rough / Slow / No Start - Symptoms, Causes, Solutions

Yes, that's the tool and it does a proper job of crimping the cable ends or eyelets. The vise or blunt chisel may work, but I don't know what kind of a crimp you will end up with. Probably not pretty or tight enough in the right places. If you have extra cable length and terminals try the blunt chisel on a solid steel surface, if it doesn't work out you can cut it off and try the crimper.

My opinion: get the welding crimper, or design the cable on paper and get a local auto/marine/welding shop to make up the cable for you. Or - try the following...

I was thinking about this some more. Why trash a cable that's perfectly good (the one already in the car) except one end. Duh... so how about installing a positive terminal block under the rear seat somewhere, then get one of those welding crimpers and crimp ring terminals on. One terminal gets crimped onto the end of your old cable (cut the end off and replace with ring terminal) and the other terminal gets crimped onto a 1-foot or so long piece of battery cable. Or just buy a piece of cable around a foot or 18" long with the ring terminals already crimped on? Heck, I bet you can already find a terminal wire with a covered zinc/lead or brass battery connector on one end and a ring terminal on the other, that has 12" or 18" of #2 gauge cable, somewhere. WalMart, an audiophile place, or a marine parts place. Anyway... the other end of that battery cable then has another ring terminal, to which you attach the battery terminal connector via the bolt/wing nut. Or get a battery cable with conventional battery connector on one end and ring terminal on the other. Then you don't have to buy a battery terminal with the stud. Just put ring terminals on those black wires that are now on the positive cable, and connect them to the positive terminal block.

nice and neat...

IF you go to a GM dealer you can get a positive terminal block just like the one under the hood, with cover and everything. GM p/n 25607779. It would be like $11.00 at the dealer, or $6.14 plus from Monster. You may want the nut 11502812 and screw 16516859 also. Or - splurge - go to a full-line hardware store (just about any big Do-It Center) and get stainless steel ones (they are common hardware metric #10 x 1.5).

Get it? old cable gets cut and a new ring terminal goes on the end instead of the terminal that's on it. The other wires off the old terminal just get ring terminals as well, whcih can be crimped on with a hand tool. . They all connect to the terminal block, with POSITIVE silk screened on and everything, that you buy from a GM dealer and install in the battery well. From that terminal block run a single wire to the positive terminal of the battery.

Then wha-la, you are done! Man... why didn't I think of this earlier?

Albertj

I don't see the advantage of using a terminal block over a connect (if I can find a 2 gauge connect).

If I use marine grade stuff elsewhere, the terminal block won't be marine grade.

But I haven't found a reasonably priced solution for marine grade cable yet, so who knows if I'll go that way or not.

At my local auto parts store they carry every diameter battery cable you could want in bulk, sold by the foot. And they have all the different terminal ends. They even have the swedging tool to make the ends up for you for the price of the parts.

Maybe I just need to get out and go shopping - but it's hard when your ride won't start

Jack the R wrote:

I don't see the advantage of using a terminal block over a connect (if I can find a 2 gauge connect).

If I use marine grade stuff elsewhere, the terminal block won't be marine grade.

But I haven't found a reasonably priced solution for marine grade cable yet, so who knows if I'll go that way or not.

One advantage of the tterminal block solution is that after you implement it you will always be able to use an Optima or OE battery without hassle; you will be able to repair/maintain the battery cable with readily available off-the-shelf parts; it costs less than making up an entire new cable to go from the battery under the carpet up to the engine compartment; you only have to mess wiht the OE cable once, to put on the ring terminal.

Albertj

Is there anything like this for 2 gauge wire?

I was thinking of cutting a few inches off the stock cable and using one of these to put on a few inches of new wire and a new terminal. But I haven't seen a 2 gauge connector yet, which probably means it's a bad idea and I should go with your's instead.

Is this the right size:
http://www.solarseller.com/butt_connectors__cable_splices__magna_splice__quick_cable.htm


Bert

Here is another one:
http://www.phillipsind.com/product/188.html

If you know someone who works for the local power company they will have the big hex crimper tool that you might could borrow or someone who works as a commercial electrician would have one also.
If there is a Fastenal store near you they might let you use a crimper, and they sell the butt splices also.

Bert

We do have a Fastenal.

And I never remember to ask about borrowing these things . . .

Sometimes we miss the obvious . . .

Like charging through the terminal block under the hood instead of pulling the battery out.

I always forget it's there.

Jack the R wrote:

Is there anything like this for 2 gauge wire?

I was thinking of cutting a few inches off the stock cable and using one of these to put on a few inches of new wire and a new terminal. But I haven't seen a 2 gauge connector yet, which probably means it's a bad idea and I should go with your's instead.

I think Home Depot (well, some Home Depots) or Lowes have the larger butt spices and crimp tools in the area with teh AC servie wiring stuff (breaker panels, service entrances, conduit and the like). You might want to phone to check.

Albertj

I monkeyed around with the stock terminal some more and got it to start again. I pulled the rubber boot off the contact and cleaned it up better. When i was putting the boot back on I got to thinking about how much it overlapped the contact - what if it was getting squeezed between the cable contact and the battery contact, instead of going around the battery contact? That would explain why I was having to make torque the bolt down so tight to get a connection. I took the boot back off and tried it that way - worked fine right off the bat without having to be overtightened (which it can't be any more since the hole is stripped).

Just a temporary solution while I get the rest of this stuff together . . .

I'll be headed to Lowes in a few days. I'll see what they've got there. I kinda like the idea of using the marine grade supplies too. Decisions, decisions!

Jack the R wrote:

I monkeyed around with the stock terminal some more and got it to start again. I pulled the rubber boot off the contact and cleaned it up better. When i was putting the boot back on I got to thinking about how much it overlapped the contact - what if it was getting squeezed between the cable contact and the battery contact, instead of going around the battery contact? That would explain why I was having to make torque the bolt down so tight to get a connection. I took the boot back off and tried it that way - worked fine right off the bat without having to be overtightened (which it can't be any more since the hole is stripped).

Just a temporary solution while I get the rest of this stuff together . . .

I'll be headed to Lowes in a few days. I'll see what they've got there. I kinda like the idea of using the marine grade supplies too. Decisions, decisions!

Marine grade stuff is not better per se, but is usually better in damp environments and is a convenient way to get the battery terminals with binding post (which you don't really need at this point if you use the factory binding post approach)

Albertj

I may be close enough to the lake to need marine grade parts. I've noticed things rust much faster here than they seem to anywhere else.

Jack the R wrote:

I may be close enough to the lake to need marine grade parts. I've noticed things rust much faster here than they seem to anywhere else.

Rat pee causes corrsion, seriously. I have saw many times where rats have pissed on telephone terminals and wirework and causes corrosion.

If you have a Tractor Supply Store in your area I am almost sure they would have the components you require as well as the crimper that you could borrow.
TSS is one of my favorite man stores.

Bert

ibmoses wrote:

Jack the R wrote:

I may be close enough to the lake to need marine grade parts. I've noticed things rust much faster here than they seem to anywhere else.

Rat pee causes corrsion, seriously. I have saw many times where rats have pissed on telephone terminals and wirework and causes corrosion.

If you have a Tractor Supply Store in your area I am almost sure they would have the components you require as well as the crimper that you could borrow.
TSS is one of my favorite man stores.

Bert

I second that comment about TS. The TS store near me closed (there are still others not too too far away) but when I moved here it was a "Central Tractor" store. The clerks were pretty knowledgeable, and so were many of the customers. I learned much about home/yard maintenance just asking questions of the farmers shopping there - they'd see me puzzling over some purchase like electrical or plumbing fixtures and comment - I'd tell them what I was up to and they'd confirm or suggest how to get the job done 'once and done' style if possible. The foul weather gear they sold was not fancy or pricey but it was durable and fit well. It was there I learned it was easier to set fence posts in the rain (ground is softer; only quit if you hear thunder or see lightning) and how to do so without catching pneumonia (get a lineman's rain suit, which they sell). It was the place to o to get rain/snow boots for the kids growing up - they sold an inexpensive line of kids rubber rain/snow boots made in Canada that had replaceable liners. As one kid outgrew them, we'd clean them up and put 'em away then when the next was big enough buy new liners. Wha La, 'new boots.' And so on.

I agree with Bert, TS is one of my favorite stores too - if part of the character of being a man includes caring for people/property/stuff TS was/is one place that supports good character without a lot of BS.

They'll have those glue traps, too, if you did not get 'em yet.

Albertj

JR, here's a link to their battery accessories;
http://www.tractorsupply.com/vehicle-maintenance/vehicle-batteries/vehicle-battery-chargers-accessories/vehicle-battery-cables/ OR

http://www.tractorsupply.com/vehicle-maintenance/vehicle-batteries/vehicle-battery-chargers-accessories/vehicle-battery-cables/battery-cable-41-in-x-1-ga-size-black-color-0474241

I wish there was one by me.
The closest one is a little over an hour drive.
I love those kind of stores, the kind of place you stop in to look around not knowing what if anything you need.
You always find something you gotta have.

I've been to the feed store, which might be similiar. I live in a farming community so I know there's a tractor supply store or similiar nearby.

I've never seen a rat, and I know the mice aren't peeing on everything I see rust. Like the front of the refrigerator. I still think it's the humidity coming off the lakes.

Anyway, there's a good chance I'm going to get distracted from this project. I'm trying to get all the finishing and painting stuff done that needs to be done before it gets too cold for it.

Quick question, the battery can be charged through the terminal block under the hood, right? I think I'm going to start charging this thing once a week.

Yep, that's the easy way to charge it!

Thanks.

Jack, if the car is just sitting, I highly recommend a Battery Tender or other battery maintainer type device. We have two, one Battery Tender and one similar, even better, made by CYKO I think. That one is a little more advanced and will try to zap the battery once in a while to stop the plates from building up... something... decalcify them maybe? (sorry I can't remember the exact terminology there...)

Man...this Riviera has been giving me nothing but problems lately...

Here's a short recap
1: Had new waterpump and harmonic balancer put on, car made werid noise afterwards
2: Noise fixed then MAF went bad (SES & T/C light would go on)
3: Fixed MAF (replaced) and had to redo a bunch of vacuum connections
4: Car/Engine shudders on and off at idle in drive at lights...put in park..nothing, turn wheels while in idle in drive and shudder is much worse! Shudder can be heard! It's like a rattling rotation sound.. when I turn car off, the last noise is that sound for about a 1/10th second or so...
5: Today, leaving work...car won't start...turn key, car turns over but no catch.. Push gas pedal car starts, but then immediately dies does not hold idle...
Started again, same thing....

Finally decided to drive home by braking with left foot and holding gas very lightly with right...(didn't hit one red light! )

Took it back to shop for them to look at....suggested new fuel filter. It ran better at shop, but seemed to idle a little high still (not sure on that one!)


So the questions!

1: Bad fuel filter, clogged just enough that at idle won't run?
2: What in the world could cause car to not get gas, then just die when I let off gas!
3: Anyone ever had their Riv shudder at light and really shudder when wheel is turned?
4: Bad mounts allowing too much engine movement??

Oh well, I still love the car...but it seems a perfect storm of stuff happening lately!

OH, last time I filled up, I was nearly empty (put in 17.1 gallons low fuel light as on)..wonder if it go so low that "crap' got lost and clogged filter....

Low fuel level and the shitty quality of filters available can contribute to what you were experiencing.
I never let mine go below 1/8 of a tank and normally fill it at 1/4 and change my filter annually. (for me that's about every 10,000 miles, not much really)

The Shudder could be a whole different thing, if it's happening irrespective of the poor running.
How many miles do you have on your car and trans especially. (for the shudder)