Write-Up: Replacing rear rotors and pads. (lots of pics)

turtleman wrote:

GeneMpls wrote:

the tool is about an inch square with a square opening on each side for a 3/8" socket wrench or extension and different combinations of 'pegs' on each side to fit different applications.

I used that tool when doing the 1st side on the back because I happened to have it already. I will never use it again on this car. The pegs did not fit the piston for very well at all which ended up making it take 20 minutes and some cuts to the hand to get the piston all the way in. I went to work and got the kit that has a clamp that fits the caliper and the small round adaptor for the piston. With that, it took about 5 seconds to get that piston in, because it actually fit snugly to the piston and it pushed it in as well as turning it.

What tool is this? I want one.

Here's the tool:



Here's the alternative:



Imo, choice #1 is WAY easier than #2.

I've used that cube before it phuckin sucks, thats why i actually bought the rear rotor brake kit from my pops. he doesnt use it anymore, plus it's SNAP-ON. but when i did my rear brakes i found it easier if you took the rotor off and bolted the caliper back on the bracket and used the brake cube that way. you dont have to worry about holding the caliper, while making sure the cube stays in the grooves all while you trun the piston back in. the only part that sucks is tryin to line the notches up with the pads.

by the way the snap-on deal only cost me $75 bucks, but my pops threw in sum extra shyt to go with it. plus i need it as being a mechanic.

also, has anyone out there found a rear brake upgrade so i wont have to go thru turning my piston again????????

The cube costs $12. I've used it twice in 160k miles. I could see if you did rear brakes for a living, but my last set of rear pads/rotors had nearly 100k miles on them.

I've got about 20 sets of rear pads on my cube. I think the right tool might be a better one for me, that's why I'm curious about it.

Hey Guys,

I'm going to do a brake job today on the rears of my Riv, including replace the rotors. I'm told it's a pretty easy job if one has the tools. I have a special tool passed to me by a friend who owned a Riv a couple years ago. It's a socket that's been ground away so it has little tits on it for a special bolt of some kind. Anyway, I'm going to give it a try after work today. Gotta do the front brakes including new rotors this coming weekend.

My ABS and Tracsion light is on. I read in one of the forums on here this problems is related to some sort of pump that has gone bad. Gotta get more info on that one.

Hey? What's all the talk on here about brake modifications. What's wrong with the brakes that come on the vehicle? They always seemed to stop the car adequately for me, even at high speed. So what gives?

I would do the fronts first they are easier.

The rears are grinding meaning I have a VERY bad situation back there that needs to be addressed right away.

Thanks for the info.

Jimmy,

Some folks say bigger brakes is better brakes... I drive really hard and have no complaints about the stock brakes. My car stops hard when I hit the stop-pedal... It's up to you. If you are not upgrading your brakes, make sure you use good parts.

-Derek

Derek: I hear what you're sayin. I ordered "top-shelf" stuff for the brake job. Not wantin any Chinese stuff if I can help it. But I'll bet even the "top-shelf" stuff comes from China.

I'll let everyone know how things went. Thanks a bunch!

There are some top-shelf parts that are not Chinese, and I believe there is a difference. Here are some options for the rears:

NAPA: 86241 (U.S.A.)

NAPA: 4886241 (china)

EBC: GD7193 (drilled slotted) $141.95 pr

Powerstop: AR8245L/AR8245R (drilled) $138.50 pr

Brembo: 27157 (OEM replacement) $75 pr


I use the Brembos, so far, so good.

I've been spinning that piston on the rear caliper for over an hour. Damn thing is moving, but very, very slowly. Don't dare try to loosen anything because of rust. Will break for sure.

There is something wrong with the caliper, should not require that much rotation at all.
I would replace with re-man or try rebuilding them.

Hey JimmyRiviera...

the rear piston will spin and spin unless you press on it while turning. You don't have to press real hard BUT you DO have to press.

Here is the funny thing. If you have a good piston tool - one that fits perfect - you can spin the pistons for-flipping-ever if you want because you don't have to push on the tool to keep the pins engaged. And if you don't push some the piston does not retract.

BUT If you have the cheapie tool (the cube with the pips on it) you have to press on the sucker to keep the pins in the slots on the piston - and wha-la, the piston moves in!

That said, try pushing firmly on that piston while you turn it. By the way, you did open the brake reservoir (and take out some of the fluid) to let up the pressure, right?

...a set of reman calipers won't hurt. Last time I got a set of reman calipers the bleeder screw in one was mis-cut - threads OK but the end was grooved so bad it would not close, had to re-use an old one. I would have used less time just overhauling my old ones.

Albertj

Hey guys, thanks for all the help. It's great to have a support group like this when tackling an issue.

You guys are correct about pushing in on the piston while rotating. I found that out after a period of time where it seemed the piston was not moving. I took a C-clamp and occasionally put a little pressure on the piston then rotate again. The piston then moved inward at a reasonable pace. Once I figured that out the other side went fairly quick.

The suggestion to replace the calipers is a very good idea. The calipers have probably been on the vehicle since installed at the factory. They look aged and I think there was a problem with the driver's side caliper. The driver's side disc brake pad was completely wiped out on the piston side. The outside pad was in decent condition. The passenger side inner and outer pads were still in decent shape. This suggest a problem with the driver's side caliper. And the driver's side caliper was the side I had trouble getting the piston to retract. I think I'll buy a couple re-manufactured calipers and install them when the weather improves.

Funny thing, before the driver's side pads went bad and started grinding, I had a terrible shudder in the braking system. I always thought the shudder problem was coming from the front brakes. Well, it turned out that the shudder was coming from the rear braking system. After replacing the rotors and pads, with premium parts by the way, the shudder completely disappeared. A friend of mine who owned a Riv until a short time ago told me if you feel the shudder in the steering wheel, the problem is up front. If you feel the shudder in the seat of your pants, the problem is coming from the rear. After he told me this info I realized I always felt a majority of the shudder in the seat of my pants. Hmmm.

I had a similar issue with my rear calipers recently. The left side piston was stuck in the bore and caused a hell of a smell (overheating).
I replaced both rears with re-man units and replaced hoses with stainless braided lines. No more shudder and much better brake feel with the SS lines.

I wanted to chime in on this write up, now that I found it today...

I did the brakes all around on the rivi. New pads/rotors.

The problem was the rears. I pushed like a $@#%er and got it to move in what seemed to be all the way. Go to put the pads on. Bam. It was so tight the wheel wouldnt spin. So I put the old pads in and we drove it for about 3 weeks... The side I did in the dark was making a bunch of noise. So today I tore into it to see whats up. Turns out in the dark I installed one pad backwards.... lol... lol.... lol....

Needless to say we needed a new rotor. I explained to the people at Autozone what happened. They questioned how I did it, I explained. They were puzzled and suggested replacing the caliper... Cant afford it...

So I come back home. Read thru this thread again. Armed with knowledge I kicked its ass! I simply replaced the rotor. Broke loose the bleeder screw and the piston went in EASY. New pads in, caliper right ON,

Summary: Crack loose the bleeder to push the piston in.

You cannot push the piston in. It has to be turned in. If you pushed it in, you need new calipers. Does your ebrake still work?

If you had a pad installed backwards, I don't see how it could have damaged the caliper, unless it came out completely.

You can't be too careful about doing brakes the right way.

JimmyRiviera wrote:

A friend of mine who owned a Riv until a short time ago told me if you feel the shudder in the steering wheel, the problem is up front. If you feel the shudder in the seat of your pants, the problem is coming from the rear. After he told me this info I realized I always felt a majority of the shudder in the seat of my pants. Hmmm.

Thus proving that sometimes it is necessary to have your head up your ass...

deekster_caddy wrote:

You cannot push the piston in. It has to be turned in. If you pushed it in, you need new calipers. Does your ebrake still work?

If you had a pad installed backwards, I don't see how it could have damaged the caliper, unless it came out completely.

You can't be too careful about doing brakes the right way.

Yes pushed and twisted. Only way to get the caliper fully back was to crack the bleeder screw.

I dont think the parking brake works period.

Damaged the rotor, not the caliper.

Need to add some info about rust removal from hub, rotor, wheel, caliper and caliper brackets AND proper lubrication of pins, pad sliders, etc.
Wish i took some pic's when I did mine recently.
I take the calipers and rotors off annually to clean and lube. Kind of necessary with all the salt and sand they use here in the winter.

what's rust??

i'll have to add the info to the write-up about re-greasing the hardware. but from what i recall the bracket is "attached" to the caliper and the pins are sealed in the unit with just a boot on the end. no slider pin to remove and no way to access the unit without ripping open the boot/sleeve.

Here are the install instructions I received with the Royalty drilled/slotted rotors purchased recently. They are front rotors, but should also apply to rear:

1) Remove old rotor.

2) Carefully clean rotor mount and hub to ensure they are free from rust & scale.

3) Check brake caliper position for full retention ability.

4) Disassemble all caliper slider mechanisms, remove all scale and rust, smooth file or sand as necessary to provide smooth surface on slider faces.

5) Apply small amount of high melting point grease sparingly to sliders. Reassemble caliper.

6) Fit new brake pads. Failure to fit new pads invalidates warranty and will cause high spots on rotor. Rotor will overheat and vehicle may suffer loss of brake in early driving miles. Do not install caliper at this time.

7) Install new rotor and secure with two wheel nuts finger tight and inspect rotor for run-out (before fitting wheels). If run-out exceeds .003" remove rotor, rotate rotor one bolt hole and repeat. If run-out still exceeds .003" there is a run-out fault on the vehicle which must be rectified before proceeding. Obtain On-Car Brake Lathe and skim rotor to bring within tolerance or use tapered shims to correct. Run-out in excess of this figure will cause "brake judder vibration". This is not a warrantable condition.

8) When satisfactory run-out is obtained, remount brake caliper with pads, mount wheel nuts, then finger tighten.

9) IMPORTANT: Tighten wheel nuts with vehicle hand brace or torque wrench using gradually increasing torque figures and tighten wheel nuts diagonally. The common fault when installing new rotors is to tighten with air gun to torque figures way above what is required. This pulls the rotor surface to one side, creates significant run-out, will cause disc thickness variations, and eventually brake judder.

10) Check brake fluid level and pump brakes to bring up pressure. Follow vehicle manufacturer instructions in all respects in addition to the above guidelines.

do the 95-99 calipers fit interchangeably?

the year for this says 97+