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 crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS

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98inSFl
Mr.Riviera
deekster_caddy
Rickw
jonly
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jonly
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jonly


Name : james
Age : 49
Location : Springfield, IL
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyThu Feb 25, 2010 6:22 pm

My car stalls at high RPMs on rainy days, resulting in a crank / no start condition if I continue driving it. This clears up after the car dries.
The car is currently in the driveway, cranking but not starting.
fuel pressure at rail ~ 60psi, and maintains after key-off,
spark at coils,
spark at plugs.
Solid crank from starter, battery and alternator are fine.
Electronics in the vehicle continue working through this "event"
air filter replaced today, fuel filter replaced yesterday.
random/multiple misfire code thrown during stalling
noid test = fine
brief history:

96 riviera sc, 195k miles. recent replacement of the upper gaskets, egr deletion. New coils purchased to 'alleviate' this problem. no avail.


Last edited by jonly on Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:34 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : forgot code during driving and the noid results)
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyThu Feb 25, 2010 11:25 pm

Has no one addressed this issue yet.
Sounds like a classic Ignition System probrem
Especially after all you have already done.
The Random / multiple misfire codes sound to be bad ignition wires, especially since this happens only when it's wet.
As a matter of fact after reading your symptoms a few more times I would replace the wires first, no matter how new or old they are. Sounds like you have an Ignition system breakdown. And recent new wires or not, I'd replace them with some AC DELCO's for $35.00.
Don't spend a bunch of money on Accell's or other high end wires they won't help you with this problem, just a waste of money, stick with the AC Delco's until your sure it's the wires.
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deekster_caddy
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyThu Feb 25, 2010 11:48 pm

I agree with Rick - it sounds like maybe bad ignition wires causing your RPM problem, maybe a bad ignition switch causing the no-start. Being wet doesn't make a lot of sense to be the ignition switch, but it does for bad spark plug wires. I'd start with a new set of ignition wires first and see how it goes.
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jonly
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jonly


Name : james
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyThu Feb 25, 2010 11:50 pm

as i've thrown myself at the mercy of the forum gods, I'll replace wires tomorrow and post results.
I did go crank it this evening in the dark to look for arcs and found none.

thanks fir getting back to me.
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Mr.Riviera
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Mr.Riviera


Name : Matthew
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PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyThu Feb 25, 2010 11:52 pm

do the 95's have crank sensors like the L67's do? if so that may be something to look into.

I personally dont see a misfire keeping the car from starting. i've had mine running with 2 cylinders completely down lol but if the ICM is getting wet/damaged and shorting out it can cause a no-start.

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Dsc_0110
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Rickw
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyThu Feb 25, 2010 11:53 pm

These wires will fail internally and not produce the expected arcing or glow when wet.
Make sure you get the AC Delco wires, they will hold up better on these Supercharged engines than some wires costing twice as much.
I can recommend more expensive wires that will work, but will only muddy up the waters.
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Rickw
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyThu Feb 25, 2010 11:54 pm

I didn't think he had a 95????
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Mr.Riviera
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Mr.Riviera


Name : Matthew
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PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyThu Feb 25, 2010 11:56 pm

Rickw wrote:
I didn't think he had a 95????

my bad...dinner wine has me seeing things beer

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Dsc_0110
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jonly
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Name : james
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 12:04 am

I have disregarded the crank position sensor due to the spark at the coils. if this is incorrect i'm not 100% opposed to swapping one out, in the driveway, while it's 20 degrees outside, but I don't want to do it as an elective.
I hate illinois.
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Rickw
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 12:09 am

No, at this point i would also rule out the Crank Position sensor.,
For now. Change the wires first. (do the inexpensive stuff and the easiest stuff)
Not just because it's the cheapest and easiest direction to go, but because it makes the most sense and just happens to not cost a lot of money.
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deekster_caddy
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 12:38 am

Rickw wrote:
No, at this point i would also rule out the Crank Position sensor.,
For now. Change the wires first. (do the inexpensive stuff and the easiest stuff)
Not just because it's the cheapest and easiest direction to go, but because it makes the most sense and just happens to not cost a lot of money.

also because replacing wires has solved a lot of odd issues for many Rivs.
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Rickw
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Name : Rick
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 1:17 am

James,
I agree with what Derek has said above, it's very true and yet confusing at times.
What are the codes the car is throwing during these events.?
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98inSFl
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 3:33 am

Do you have access to a scan tool that can read data stream?
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jonly
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Name : james
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 12:47 pm

Rick: The code thrown is a P0300.

Ed: I do not believe that my scanner will capture data stream.

The nearest ACDelco wires for my particular vehicle are 75 miles away. i'll research napa brands
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jonly
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jonly


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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 12:50 pm

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Mr.Riviera
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Mr.Riviera


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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 1:00 pm

order the delco's from rockauto for $35

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Dsc_0110
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 1:23 pm

jonly wrote:
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?A=BEL700951_0254708685&An=599001+101996+50008+2008026

thoughts on belden?

They'll work.

Might want to read the spark plug wire info on magnecor.com if you are interested in the technical stuff. I have over 100,000 miles on my Magnecors.

Albertj
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jonly
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 3:27 pm

as much as it pains me to say it, the car is running now with no codes.

I searched and read multiple times on the forum that it was always the plug wires, but I knew better because mine were very new.

I pulled the old ones 1 at a time and went ahead and re-gapped the plugs, most were sitting ~ .07

sprayed starter fluid in the intake and fired up, it stalled the first time, but has restarted and ran fine for 15 minutes, three times.

The car HAD been idling ~650 in gear, now it's sitting at ~950.


I feel like I've wasted some of your time, but if it makes you feel any better - it's always the plugwires.


with any luck, I'll be able to drive it home in the rain next time as well.


Last edited by jonly on Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wires)
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 6:47 pm

These cars should not flood plugs. You may have had soaked plugs because of the no-start, but I highly doubt they were the cause. I didn't realize you already had recent wires, I would have started with a different troubleshooting path. Wiring harnesses for thing like crank position sensors could alsobe wet weather culprits.
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jonly
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 7:13 pm

no the new plugwires did it, I'm sure. thanks for your help
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptyFri Feb 26, 2010 7:52 pm

jonly wrote:
no the new plugwires did it, I'm sure. thanks for your help

So let me get this straight...

..you had plug wires that were bad *new* - and whose make were they?

Albertj
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98inSFl
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptySat Feb 27, 2010 12:28 am

I have no experience on rivs but I have handled several Belden wire sets and they look to be good quality.
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptySat Feb 27, 2010 12:48 am

Many ignition wire sets look good (often prettier than stock). But unexpected things can happen with heat, moisture, and age. We like the AC Delcos because we know they last ~100k miles for a decent price of $35.

_________________
'05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26

'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes

'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles
^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptySat Feb 27, 2010 12:36 pm

AA wrote:
Many ignition wire sets look good (often prettier than stock). But unexpected things can happen with heat, moisture, and age. We like the AC Delcos because we know they last ~100k miles for a decent price of $35.

I guess mine decided 11 years was enough, screw making it to 100K.
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jonly
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crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS Empty
PostSubject: Re: crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS   crank/no start after rain. resolved - CKPS EmptySat Feb 27, 2010 3:33 pm

albertj wrote:
jonly wrote:
no the new plugwires did it, I'm sure. thanks for your help

So let me get this straight...

..you had plug wires that were bad *new* - and whose make were they?

Albertj

Autolite professional series
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