The Rivi is acting crazy - any suggestions?

So my buddy has a 96 Riviera. 145,000 miles. A few weeks ago, it started having a no start, no crank issue. Replaced the battery and seemed to go away. He did not get the vented style which I think is what the manufacture recommends. Problem is back but now his door chim is going off when the door is open and no key is in ignition. When he goes to the run position, a weird grinding noise happens under the dash.

So, I was thinking at first possible crank sensor but with the new electrical issues, could this be ignition switch or maybe security alarm issue. I haven't looked at the car yet. I just want some ideas to give to him.

Sounds like it could be the ignition switch....a bad crank sensor WILL NOT cause a no-crank condition, and given that you say his door chime goes off without the key in the ignition adds to the ignition switch being bad.

Are there any body codes stored?

Abaddon wrote:

Sounds like it could be the ignition switch....a bad crank sensor WILL NOT cause a no-crank condition, and given that you say his door chime goes off without the key in the ignition adds to the ignition switch being bad.

Are there any body codes stored?

At this age most likely the ignition switch is done. The contacts carbon-up, they arc a little. I replaced mine (my RIv is a '98, 215+ K miles) last year. Hopefully you can do it yourself. It is *not* difficult but it is time consuming becuase it is buried in the column and separates from the column keylock, and if you pay to have it done it costs $$$. Not to mention that the switch itself is fairly pricey for no reason I can reckon.

Not sure what the grindig noise under the dash might be. Best guess is it is one or another relay that's getting power thru the ignition, and with the internals of the switch contacts arcing it is making-and-breaking in sync with the sparks.

By the way about that battery. The OE style that vents thru the tubes and what not is not so much a recommendation for these cars as it is a *Requirement* in that if you don't use a vented battery the fumes will eat their way thru the floor in a short time. In a *new* Riv IIRC it would take a year or 2, GM even issued a TSB about that. In a used one where the floor is already dirty or a little corroded (so the acid fumes are captured and can work on the metal quicker) it can eat thru in as little as a few months. Secondly, the Riv's parasitic load is quite high. Many batteries will fit that holder but the specified battery (group 79) actually has the highest capacity of any automotive battery (1000 CA, 880 CCA) and part of the reason is the high drain when the car is "off" (the Riv is never really 100% "off" when the engine is off it just looks that way). Dealers can still get you the vent tubes and floor grommet, they are not that pricey.

One way to cheap out on an OE battery would be to call junkyards/salvage yards in your area to see if they have or are expecting any. GM used these Group 79s on Park Aves, Rivs, Caddilacs -- and most likely a battery from one of those coming into a yard will still have a lot of life in it. The OE batteries on these cars routinely last ~7 to 10 years with proper care, I'd guess 6 minimum. And I can't see them asking much more than $20 if you have a core to give them and $30 if you do not. By the way - you can extend the life of the battery somewhat by turning the headlight delay to the minimum (push slider all the way to the left).

Albertj

I would take Alberts advice and try to convince your friend to put the correct battery in the car and then continue your troubleshooting of the other problems.
Not saying the new battery is the problem but IT IS the wrong battery for the car.
Most other cars it wouldn't matter, but the Riviera has a lot of parasitic load on it when the key is in the OFF position and just a higher than normal load when running compared to other cars.
Also, the corrosion issue is very real. That's why GM put the ventilation system on the Battery's mounted under the seat.

Good advice guys. I met him after the battery was replaced (literally days after). I remembered seeing the recalls and seeing threads on here about the specific battery style and why it was important. That said, when you have a dealership dummy telling the guy it's not necessary and the $30-$40 cheaper battery will do just fine, it's hard to argue.

Update - he found out the battery was dead and jumped it. So far things are running smooth. He not sure if he left something on or what but we'll see what happens. Next weekend, he supposed to bring it by and I was going to do all his maintenance and stuff that hasn't been done. (plugs, wires, fluids, Tstat, the works).

I'll keep seeing if he won't just get the correct style battery. I know they're expensive, but the Rivs just seem to be so finicky about everything whether it's the battery, the tire pressure and wheel balance, what have you. Rivieras are alot like snobby women (they only want the best you can't afford but they do look good).

Rickw wrote:

I would take Alberts advice and try to convince your friend to put the correct battery in the car and then continue your troubleshooting of the other problems.
Not saying the new battery is the problem but IT IS the wrong battery for the car.
Most other cars it wouldn't matter, but the Riviera has a lot of parasitic load on it when the key is in the OFF position and just a higher than normal load when running compared to other cars.
Also, the corrosion issue is very real. That's why GM put the ventilation system on the Battery's mounted under the seat.

Hmmm.... the only exception to the battery thing that I can think of is if you got a sealed Optima gel battery. The 'maintenance free' batteries are vented and still spew fumes, but they also have the vents configured to cause the water to condense and --usually-- drip back in. The gas from the vents, however, will still escape and will still eat a hole in the floor of the car. Period.

If someone from a GM dealership sold a different battery, it's one of a few problems
- rookie counterperson--they say the cutest things
- counterperson does not think your guy cares, and battery will in fact work for a while
- counterperson does not think the Riv will be around long enough for the floor to rot out (he's probably wrong, once it starts it goes **fast**)

If someone from a car parts store said it did not matter, odds are either again the rookie counterperson, or they simply did not have the right battery in stock and the counterperson wanted to make a sale (they are usually paid a draw set to minimum wage and a small commission on sales so if they talk to you they kinda have to sell *something* to get any value from the conversation) and/or they did not care or did not know any better (they're not technicians). Recently I've noticed, however, that larger WalMarts have the Group 79 battery at a decent price and I am pretty sure you can get them at Sears (with auto center) too (more $).

Optima batteries have other issues, I think related to mounting at least - but it's best to ask list members who are using that battery to chime in - I am not/have not.

Again a way to cheap out is to get one from a junkyard, as long as the standard batteries last it's not a bad bet and the junkyard guys will be able to go by the (mandatory) date sticker on teh battery to pick out one that has some life in it.

The fact that the new battery is already dead Should Be A Hint.

Gotta do something about that ignition switch. If you have not torn into a Saginaw column before, might want to get a manual. IIRC basically you have to disconnect battery for a while (so the air bag does not accidentally go off) I think an hour or so will do it - then have to take the clamshell off the colmun. I do not remember how to do it from there but I think there may be a write up on this site somewhere.

Albertj

Regardless of what type battery you buy, when they have been sitting on the shelf for a while they loose capacity.
I read somewhere that a charged battery sitting on the shelf waiting to be sold and not having a battery maintainer hooked up to it will lose on average 1% of it's charge daily.
Consider that when battery's can sit on the shelf for months.
Before installing any battery it should be properly top charged or else if you rely on the car's charging system to do it you will then have a battery no longer capable of achieving it's rated CCA for ever.
I know this doesn't sound right, but I will find the article and post for all to read.
Written by a respected person or chemist or some such shit, otherwise I wouldn't have cut the article out and filed it.

playa wrote:

Rivieras are alot like snobby women (they only want the best you can't afford but they do look good).

Nice line Mark! Gald to hear your friend is back in business.

playa wrote:

Good advice guys. I met him after the battery was replaced (literally days after). I remembered seeing the recalls and seeing threads on here about the specific battery style and why it was important. That said, when you have a dealership dummy telling the guy it's not necessary and the $30-$40 cheaper battery will do just fine, it's hard to argue.

Update - he found out the battery was dead and jumped it. So far things are running smooth. He not sure if he left something on or what but we'll see what happens. Next weekend, he supposed to bring it by and I was going to do all his maintenance and stuff that hasn't been done. (plugs, wires, fluids, Tstat, the works).

I'll keep seeing if he won't just get the correct style battery. I know they're expensive, but the Rivs just seem to be so finicky about everything whether it's the battery, the tire pressure and wheel balance, what have you. Rivieras are alot like snobby women (they only want the best you can't afford but they do look good).

After having charged the battery, perform a battery load test based on the cars required CCA rating.
If the Battery fails, then get the correct one otherwise you'll be chasing electrical gremlins all summer long.
Just my 0.02$.

hi, i experienced the no-crank or delayed crank plus other wierd electrical issues. I went to newrockies.ca and bought/installed the theft deterent module (TDM) over-ride module. My car started right up and has had no issues. While your focus is on the battery, I recommend checking into newrockies.ca. rivren