Riv Performance
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

The 8th Gen Riviera Resource
 
HomeDashboardLatest imagesSearchRiviera Questions & AnswersWrite-Ups IndexRegisterRelated LinksLog in

 

 P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!

Go down 
+16
brutusk1
deekster_caddy
98riv
albertj
moldymac
Abaddon
BMD
Eldo
BillBoost37
Rickw
riv_problems96
akh
AA
1998 Riv
'96reese
TType_Riviera
20 posters
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
AuthorMessage
Abaddon
Expert
Abaddon


Name : Scott
Location : Macomb, Michigan
Joined : 2010-02-24
Post Count : 4315
Merit : 185

P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 EmptyThu Dec 18, 2014 1:43 pm

matt270avian wrote:
So that means it's basically either a plug/wire or a coil then, right?

If it's a single or pair of cylinders, maybe yes. If it's the entire engine, no.
Back to top Go down
matt270avian
Expert
matt270avian


Name : Matt
Age : 28
Location : Frederick, MD
Joined : 2012-01-15
Post Count : 2681
Merit : 54

P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 EmptyThu Dec 18, 2014 2:28 pm

It's cylinder 6. Letting it cool off for a bit so I don't burn my wrists trying to throw in a new plug.
Back to top Go down
matt270avian
Expert
matt270avian


Name : Matt
Age : 28
Location : Frederick, MD
Joined : 2012-01-15
Post Count : 2681
Merit : 54

P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 EmptyThu Dec 18, 2014 3:16 pm

Replaced the plug, but it's still missing. What kind of resistance reading should I be looking for out of the wire? If the wire reads good I'll swap the coils around to see if that changes where the miss is.
Back to top Go down
Abaddon
Expert
Abaddon


Name : Scott
Location : Macomb, Michigan
Joined : 2010-02-24
Post Count : 4315
Merit : 185

P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 EmptyThu Dec 18, 2014 3:30 pm

If it were the coil, the other cylinder associated with that coil would be misfiring as well......
Back to top Go down
matt270avian
Expert
matt270avian


Name : Matt
Age : 28
Location : Frederick, MD
Joined : 2012-01-15
Post Count : 2681
Merit : 54

P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 EmptyThu Dec 18, 2014 7:56 pm

Haven't had a chance to go back out and try anything new, but here's that video I promised (taken last night, before I fixed the boost issue). For some reason it cut off, but you can still hear it sputtering.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3c5pslfjsrzzgd/2014-12-18%2003.18.30.mp4?dl=0
Back to top Go down
albertj
Master
albertj


Name :
Location : Finger Lakes of New York State
Joined : 2007-05-31
Post Count : 8685
Merit : 181

P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 EmptyFri Dec 19, 2014 11:53 am

matt270avian wrote:
Replaced the plug, but it's still missing. What kind of resistance reading should I be looking for out of the wire? If the wire reads good I'll swap the coils around to see if that changes where the miss is.

Inspect the wire carefully for physical damage - dumb stuff like ablation of the center conductor. Explanation: on wires that have the carbon core conductor, they sometimes are cut or overcrimped such that in use the electrical energy causes the center conductor to ablate, literally meaning to evaporate due to the energy from the coil not all being conducted to the plug. What you do is pull back the boots and look at whether the center conductor is under the terminal crimp on the cable, and whether that conductor is cut or frayed. I suspect yours may be frayed or busted on one end, probably the plug end. On wires with a wire conductor, look for a break in that wire, most likely by one or the other terminal end.

The other thing - do your coils match? If someone replaced that coil a while back and used the wrong type you could have a problem. What usually happens is someone puts a coil for the non-SC ignition onto the ignition of a SC engine. When coil is new it's not so obvious. After a while (can be a year or more) the problem shows up. IIRC either coil will work OK on the non-sc cars; you really must use the SC coils on the SC cars, and your coild really must match - that is, the SC and non-SC coils have different resistance ranges, the details are posted elsewhere on this site, the point is don't mix them on the engine.

One more thing - maybe the last time plugs were freshened the #6 (its a bear to reach) maybe was left in place. I have seen these where a so-called-mechanic changes the plugs in the front bank and leaves the back bank alone in the entirety because he/she does not happen to know how to get them out (basically you use spark plug socket on a 1-1/2" wobble extension attached to a ratchet wrench and some band-aids...) As you already know, (I would not say this but you're not the only one who will read this) be sure to blow out the dirt away from the plugs before you pull them, with compressed air, so you don't get that dirt on the landings or in the cylinders when you pull/replace the plugs, the wells are deep so this is a real issue.

"Happy motoring. "

Albertj
Back to top Go down
matt270avian
Expert
matt270avian


Name : Matt
Age : 28
Location : Frederick, MD
Joined : 2012-01-15
Post Count : 2681
Merit : 54

P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 EmptyFri Dec 19, 2014 6:52 pm

albertj wrote:

matt270avian wrote:
Replaced the plug, but it's still missing. What kind of resistance reading should I be looking for out of the wire? If the wire reads good I'll swap the coils around to see if that changes where the miss is.


Inspect the wire carefully for physical damage - dumb stuff like ablation of the center conductor.   Explanation: on wires that have the carbon core conductor, they sometimes are cut or overcrimped such that in use the electrical energy causes the center conductor to ablate, literally meaning to evaporate due to the energy from the coil not all being conducted to the plug.  What you do is pull back the boots and look at whether the center conductor is under the terminal crimp on the cable, and whether that conductor is cut or frayed.  I suspect yours may be frayed or busted on one end, probably the plug end.  On wires with a wire conductor, look for a break in that wire, most likely by one or the other terminal end.

The other thing - do your coils match?  If someone replaced that coil a while back and used the wrong type you could have a problem.  What usually happens is someone puts a coil for the non-SC ignition onto the ignition of a SC engine. When coil is new it's not so obvious.  After a while (can be a year or more) the problem shows up.  IIRC either coil will work OK on the non-sc cars; you really must use the SC coils on the SC cars, and your coild really must match - that is, the SC and non-SC coils have different resistance ranges, the details are posted elsewhere on this site, the point is don't mix them on the engine.

One more thing - maybe the last time plugs were freshened the #6 (its a bear to reach) maybe was left in place.  I have seen these where a so-called-mechanic changes the plugs in the front bank and leaves the back bank alone in the entirety because he/she does not happen to know how to get them out (basically you use spark plug socket on a 1-1/2" wobble extension attached to a ratchet wrench and some band-aids...)  As you already know, (I would not say this but you're not the only one who will read this)  be sure to blow out the dirt away from the plugs before you pull them, with compressed air, so you don't get that dirt on the landings or in the cylinders when you pull/replace the plugs, the wells are deep so this is a real issue.

"Happy motoring. "

Albertj

Coils all match and look to be original (they still have the numbers on them). Wires appear to be original too, so I was going to swap them out anyways. Still haven't had a chance to swap wires/coils around to see if the misfire moves around, despite what Abaddon (and a few other people) say about how if a coil fails it will cause a miss in 2 cylinders. I've read a fair bit saying it could cause only one to miss, and it's free to test it so why not?
Back to top Go down
matt270avian
Expert
matt270avian


Name : Matt
Age : 28
Location : Frederick, MD
Joined : 2012-01-15
Post Count : 2681
Merit : 54

P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 EmptySat Dec 20, 2014 2:38 pm

Swapped coils - noticed the terminal on 6 looked a little rough, sanded it - missfire stayed at cylinder 6

Tried swapping wires, couldn't get them to reach, bought new ones (temporary cheap AutoZone ones, getting nice ones after Christmas), had friend who lives next to AZ pick them up and bring them to me, swapped them, NO MORE MISSES WOOOOOOOOO

Thanks everyone for the help.
Back to top Go down
KnottyEagle
Fanatic
KnottyEagle


Name : Daymon
Age : 26
Location : Battle Creek, Michigan
Joined : 2014-08-29
Post Count : 284
Merit : 3

P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 EmptySat Dec 20, 2014 3:58 pm

Good to hear! Wires and plugs solved my misfire.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!   P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back! - Page 6 Empty

Back to top Go down
 
P0441 / 1441 EVAP Emission Canister Purge - keeps coming back!
Back to top 
Page 6 of 6Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
 Similar topics
-
» Write-up: EVAP Filter Canister Replacement for 97 Riviera (SES/DTC P0441)
» EVAP Canister location?
» EVAP Canister Mounting Bracket
» Charcoal canister box.
» Hydrogen Canister - Anyone looked into this at all?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Riv Performance ::   Supercharged 3800 Tech :: Series II Engine & Transmission-
Jump to: