Write-Up: Stabillizer (Anti-Sway) Bar Link Upgrade

albertj wrote:

O by the way in the photo that tie rod ends looks worn out or damaged. Is it? Did you wipe it off and check? It does not look original (has a grease zerk this is not a bad thing by the way) and looks like the boot is chewed off (meaning it gets gritty inside and wears out fast - ball gets smaller then it starts to clunk in the internal seat).

Albertj

Yeah, that tie rod end did look pretty cruddy, but I cleaned it off and added grease to the boot which it accepted, so I don't think its chewed off, but it does look worse than the other side. I will keep an eye on it, thanks Albert.

I've had the links seize into the spacer too. Damn annoying. I think I used a sawzall or dremel to just cut the sucker. LOL

I could see worn out endlinks causing the pop sound when there is a weight shift on either side of the car. You don't have poly swaybar bushings, do you? If not, I'll bet the rubber OEM ones allow for that type of play on the endlinks.

In any event, I'm keeping my fingers crossed the sound is gone for good.

so AA, do you have any reaction to your new links at this point? JW

With the new 2000 bonne cradle, I just kinda test fitted the Addco bar and the links I pieced together and so far, it looks really good. There's just enough thread to get the nut on without any trouble before everything compresses. I did swap out the Moog bolts for identical ones in grade 8 (vs grade 5) just for extra insurance while tightening it all the way. I was looking at those black oxide alloy bolts but I didn't see ones that were long enough at my local Ace. I reckon this bar & link combo is strong enough that the first thing to go in a crash or something would definitely be the control arms cracking.

Wow, that looks pretty stout! I assembled mine with the shank pointing down to avoid contact with the axle, but I don't think there's any interference once weight is applied to the suspension. You should be okay.

I like the new links on mine, still holding up well. Can't really feel any difference, but I know the ES poly bushings have to be more effective with the tighter seating against the arm and sway bar. With the Moog hardware, the ES bushings were sloppy loose. I think it could mean a couple degrees of suppressed body roll. Never got a chance to test before & after with lat-G meter.

AA wrote:

Because of the increased forces exerted on the stiffer bars, you'll want to use energy suspension insulators, at least on the fronts. Also, the front links should be upgraded for the extra load (I've popped an OEM link with these bars).

I already popped an OEM end link with the stock bars. I replaced them with the HD Moog links. They have polyurethane instead of rubber.

AA wrote:

I may order a quantity of these parts at lower price and sell as a kit to anyone interested. The bushings come in red or black, and piecing together this kit cost me about $38. I can order a few sets at bulk rate and sell them for $30 shipped for the front set. It should be a similar cost for the rears, but haven't yet priced them.

Aaron,
Did you ever do this?

Not yet, Larry, but I could if you are interested. I can order the parts right away if you want a set. The links would be the same as the ones I made for my car with ES bushings, shown below on right (Your Moog set is on left). Not only are these links stronger than OEM/Moog, but the shank is black oxidized coated, so won't rust out for many years (maybe forever). I've had them on for one Ohio winter, disassembled this past summer and looked good. These links have successfully been used on my car for autocross and road course laps with the Addco bar. $30 for front L/R set. Black or Red bushing color. Can price a rear set if needed.

AA wrote:

Not yet, Larry, but I could if you are interested. I can order the parts right away if you want a set. The links would be the same as the ones I made for my car with ES bushings, shown below on right (Your Moog set is on left). Not only are these links stronger than OEM/Moog, but the shank is black oxidized coated, so won't rust out for many years (maybe forever). I've had them on for one Ohio winter, disassembled this past summer and looked good. These links have successfully been used on my car for autocross and road course laps with the Addco bar. $30 for front L/R set. Black or Red bushing color. Can price a rear set if needed.

Absolutely Aaron. I'll need front and rear sets. Let me know how much, and how to pay.

Not a problem, Larry. Do you prefer red or black insulator bushings? Energy Suspension claims there is a slight difference:

"Both (red & black) are our Energy's HYPER-FLEX™ performance polyurethane formulations. Energy has impregnated selected black polyurethane components with graphite — to add a lubrication property. Additionally, both Energy Suspension® red and black polyurethane components are engineered differently than OEM rubber components — to be free a floating and non-binding design. This allows for the additional durometer (firmness) of the components, which adds to the performance improvement of the vehicle overall."

Black is fine. Thanks Aaron.

Finally got around to installing my sway bars, along with the end link kits I got from Aaron. I'm very pleased, the hardware in these kits made the links I got from Addco look like Junk. I installed them threaded end down with no problems. I also used the Energy Suspension center bushings, and greased them up.

How does that car feel after changing the subframe bushings and the endlinks?

98riv wrote:

How does that car feel after changing the subframe bushings and the endlinks?

I did the Addco bars and Cradle mounts at the same time. My Cradle mounts were on their way, but they weren't completely gone. My car always felt tight. It still feels great, and now it handles. You can really notice the difference on curvy roads and highway turns, and off ramps. I have a lot more confidence in the car now.

I just put on the Moog set today...the more "expensive ones"...about $10 each.

Not too bad to do, you'll need a jackstand if you have one so you can use a jack to move the control arms up and down...

well, at least I did.

The new setup certainly got rid of a bunch of front end rattles and looseness..
BEFORE (sprayed with WD-40)

AFTER


the OEM's sheared pretty easily, so it was a lot of hammering & wrenching to loosen the spacer from the main bolt. Rust seems to have been working from the outside in, so the main bolt was just barely there by the bottom rubber spacer. I don't doubt they would have failed sooner than later.

Thanks Albertj for your online help!!!

deekster_caddy wrote:

The stock one is plastic.

By it's design a cylindrical plastic sleeve is strong. You can put all of your weight on it and it will support you.

That being said I think it's a poor concept as it tends to trap moisture inside of the cylinder. Add to that a briny substance that is used on the roads in northern climates and you have a test tube full of corrosive fluid eating away at the bolt. In theory no moisture should get in, but after some miles the bushings will give a bit and water will find it's way into any fitted pieces under a car.

When I changed my OEM links last week the one side was rusted away in the middle and the other looked to be a mile or less from disintegrating too. I used 10 grade replacement bolts and metal sleeves that came in the Moog kit.

Take outs with a cut away of the plastic sleeve:

Natesriv wrote:

I just put on the Moog set today...the more "expensive ones"...about $10 each.

Not too bad to do, you'll need a jackstand if you have one so you can use a jack to move the control arms up and down...

well, at least I did.

Just had a failed attempt at doing this. i jacked the car up on both sides, removed wheels, replaced with stands. Next, i started lifting the control arms on both sides. I had the car lifted by the control arms, off the jack stands. I wasn't sure how much I had to compress each side. I ended up maxing out both jacks with blocks of wood between the control arms and jack. The arms were still not parallel with the ground and the link still held tension. I was finally able to grip the nut on the bottom of the link but it spun the entire link and i couldnt work the nut off. I tried a wrench to hold the top part of the link still while wrenching on the bottom nut, but to no avail.

Did I have the arm jacked up high enough? Was the suspension compressed enough? Did anyone else have a problem with the entire link spinning with the nut?

I did my links with the suspension hanging. No reason to compress the control arms. All you are doing is pre loading the bar. The original links suffer from corrosion like the rest of the suspension. If you can grip them, sometimes you have to destroy them to get them off. Most times, they break anyway.

If you compress both arms, the bar should not be under any load - it just pivots in the bushings. I always compress mine, using ramps with wheels on. The reason I prefer to compress the suspension: there is more clearance from the axles. If you let the control arms hang, the axles and CV boots are much closer to the sway bar and links, which makes getting tools on the top side more difficult - if you thread the bolts upside down, they can even make contact with the axles.

Not saying it's the only way, but I can see some reasoning for compressing the suspension, especially for installation. Getting the OEM links off is never an easy chore. I think I cut mine off with a hacksaw.

When I did my links initially before the bars, I simply put a jack stand under each arm and removed the wheels. When I did the bars, along with the cradle mounts it was on a lift, so the suspension was hanging. Either way works.

Never considered cutting them. If one did not compress the suspension/support the control arms and then cut the links; would one have to compress the control arms/ lift them to install the new links? You have to support/lift the control arm so it's close enough to the sway bar to link them, right?

On my next attempt I will start where I left off. Car jacked up on the control arms with stands below the jack points in case the worst happens.Then, I will cut the links and see what happens. Hopefully arm and sway bar will stay in the same proximity to each other to make the removal of the cut link and installation of the new link somewhat straight forward.

The bar just rotates down on the center bushings.

I have replaced both front and rear links on my Riv. Job turns out not too bad. If there is any way you can do it while car is *on the ground* that would be great as at that attitude there is no torsion on the sway bar. Option B is to get it off the ground just high enough to work (that will use 2 jackstands) then use your floor jack and the other 2 jackstands to get the control arms up the same height both sides, so they are high enough it is as if the car was still off the ground. Then the end links will come off/go on easiest.

However - If you have a end link broken already consider jacking up just that side and taking off the link. Just jack up the one side, and watch. The link will likely separate - mine did. Alternatively, you can put a vise grip on the bolt and simply snap the bolts -- just "tighten" them until the bolts break. Way easier than trying to remove a rusted bolt that has welded itself to the nut. They are usually rusted so bad they won't loosen so if you are replacing them anyway, really, just snap the heads off...

In summary the point is the job looks worse than it is; the trick is to get the wheels both sides up to a level where there is no torsion at all on the sway bar. Remove the old links from *both* sides and replace *both* sides at once. Trick that works for me is to get both sides off then put one on just barely enough so the bolt stays on the link when I go to the other side and bend the bar away to slip the other link in place. With the one link just-barely-on you might have to bend the bar pretty hard to slip the other link in place. But with both wheels at the same attitude it's not too bad. You might, however, have to keep the frame on jackstands and use the floor jack to move the control arms up and down to finesse the links in. Don't worry just look at it you'll figure it out, and I hope this helps.

Albertj

Mission complete. These things were tough to get off! I jacked up front L and R and supported each control arm. Lifting and supporting the control arms relieved enough tension in the links to make it possible. A couple of mine had seemed to fuse together and would not budge. I had to cut 2 and the other 2 came off with a wrench and socket.

AA's links went on super easy. Dropped the arms, put the new links on, tightened each side in tandem, and complete. Got to test them on the ride home on and off some ramps. Definitely better but not where I want it yet.

Update:
Is it placebo or does my corner feeling amazing compared to what it was? I am taking my 20-30mph corners will at least 60% less roll. The balance and rigidness feels great.