FAQ: Supercharger Oil (M62 & M90)

Done. Thanks for the help y'all.

How much "wobble" or "play" should the tensioner pulleys have? Both of mine have the same amount. Only a very little, but enough to tell there was a little movement and not super tight.

My pulleys wobble a very small amount. If they aren't making noise, they're fine imo.

Thanks!

Just for the record, and if you want to be exact, the total oil capacity for the M90 Eaton supercharger is 225 ml. Use a graduated cylinder to meaure it exactly, after evacuating all the STINKY oil out of a cold supercharger reservoir, before you carefully pour it in.

This 225 ml capacity information is off of the Eaton website for the Series II 3800 supercharged engine.

Good Add!
A "plus" for you!

Can I suggest amending the first post to include information such as how much mileage/time between changes, and what oil to get?

Well Jack, this listing is kinda' fuzzy cuz it lists both M62 & M90 blowers...
This other column may be better:   https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t999-write-up-changing-supercharger-oil

For your '97, like mine, it's the pure GM Supercharger Oil, #12345982.  I should probably take a sniff at mine, since I haven't changed it since I moved from Marin to Oregon, but then again, I've only put another 9K on it since...  As the manual totally ignores the question, I can tell you that I changed it twice between 69,000 and 90,000 cuz the original fill stank so 'cheesy' - obviously the factory fill - but the last time I checked it at about 115 it was still not odiferous again...

The M90 takes about 6-7 ounces depending how well you suck out the old stuff with your syringe (Usually a cheap item at an auto parts store with the tubes & fittings stored in the sides of the plunger.) So, you need 2 4-oz bottles.  They've definitely gone up since I bought my snout/coupling kit - I think I paid $14 for both bottles a couple years ago.  But since they stopped using superchargers the best price I find now is GM's Amazon listing:  $13 each, but at least with two, you get free shipping and it's only a 30 to 50,000 miles thing.  
I don't remember, can we list links?  
https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10-4041-Synthetic-Supercharger-Oil/dp/B000QIR2ZC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520591736&sr=8-1&keywords=gm+supercharger+oil

Cheers,
Mark

This is the thread that's in the FAQ, but now the link to the other column is in this thread too, so now it's sort of in the FAQ.

Any idea of how long supercharger oil can go in terms of years?

Jack the R wrote:

This is the thread that's in the FAQ, but now the link to the other column is in this thread too, so now it's sort of in the FAQ.

Any idea of how long supercharger oil can go in terms of years?  

No, supposedly intended for very long term use, to be kept topped-up.

Albert

As Albert said, the factory just says to keep it full...  but I treat it like tranny fluid:  Regardless of the instructions I give it the smell-test, and as I said I think it should be a 30K to 50K thing.  I don't know if this is good or not, but I'm pushing 125,000 and still haven't needed the coupler-kit I assembled.  

Eldo wrote:

As Albert said, the factory just says to keep it full...  but I treat it like tranny fluid:  Regardless of the instructions I give it the smell-test, and as I said I think it should be a 30K to 50K thing.  I don't know if this is good or not, but I'm pushing 125,000 and still haven't needed the coupler-kit I assembled.  

I agree, if you just vac out the old and fill with new you'll be fine. When you read the specs for the oil you will find it is intended for indefinite use. It is NYE 605, a light polyolester oil. See https://www.nyelubricants.com/datasheet/SDS_US_English_NYE+SYNTHETIC+OIL+605.pdf for the MSDS. There is a graphite-loaded version, NYE 605G; I don't know what it's used for, I imagine generally for bearings?!?!

Albertj

The factory service manual is silent on CHANGING the oil as part of the maintenance scheduling.  It DOES say on pages 0-39 and 0-40 (Volumn 1 of 3) (Short Trip/City Maintenance Schedule): "For supercharged engines on:  Check the supercharger oil level and add oil as needed (or every 36 months, whichever occurs first).  Refer to recommended fluids and lubricants.

Mind you, this applies to Series 2 motors and I'm running it in a 1998 Riveria

EyeDoc1 wrote:

The factory service manual is silent on CHANGING the oil as part of the maintenance scheduling.  It DOES say on pages 0-39 and 0-40 (Volumn 1 of 3) (Short Trip/City Maintenance Schedule): "For supercharged engines on:  Check the supercharger oil level and add oil as needed (or every 36 months, whichever occurs first).  Refer to recommended fluids and lubricants.

Mind you, this applies to Series 2 motors and I'm running it in a 1998 Riveria

The supercharger oil in the M90 is a synthetic, and in this application isn't lubricating at its limits - so really there is no "change" interval.  It's a good idea to check/top off the oil at every oil change and change it when you feel like it. In a maintained supercharger this gets kinda boring, basically checking it to assure that you don't wonder what's up.  In 20+/- years I've gone through maybe 5 bottles of SC oil, I'd say I went thru 2 or 3 bottles for top-offs over the years, and one time 2 for a change after coupler replacement.

Just put a clothespin on your nose because used SC oil has to give off one of the worst odors I've ever experienced unless you change a lot of diapers.

LARRY70GS wrote:

Just put a clothespin on your nose because used SC oil has to give off one of the worst odors I've ever experienced unless you change a lot of diapers.

+1 that. I only once opened the SC bung while indoors.

Albertj

You learn real quick regarding the smell of 90K mile s/c oil.

While I spent some time at a GM dealership I looked into all the info I could find regarding the S/C oil and found nothing in writing from them regarding changing the oil, oil checking and topping it off if necessary.

I even asked the few very experienced and long term mechanics on staff about it and they said the only time they had ever put fluid in one was when they had to change out a supercharger for warranty purposes. It was mentioned that smelled bad but I didn't remember that till I used a vacuum pump on mine and pulled the fluid out and changed. There is nothing that I have ever been exposed to that can explain the smell and I've I've worked in a few industrial facility's with many different smelling fluids.

BTW, after asking one of these top notch, long term, very experienced GM mechanics, well what would you do if you wanted to change the fluid. (because I know there isn't any fluid made to last for ever) He said remove the Supercharger and turn it upside down with the fill plug out.

What a genius. After I got my Riv I showed that a simple Mighty Vac brake bleeder sucked the fluid out and let him get a good smell of the fluid.
In his defense he was the Transmission guy mostly so he didn't deal with the tops of these engines much.

But he rebuilt my trans with a lot of heavy duty aftermarket and GM parts. He knew what to use and where to use it. Strangely enough, if he were doing a GM trans under Warranty for the same kind of failure mine had he was not allowed to put the heavy duty aftermarket parts in it even though that's exactly what the trans needed.

My supercharger is off the car, and I'm waiting for Amazon to deliver the oil today.  I'll change it outside, on the tailgate of my truck.  Being a vet, I've had to endure some "smells", and while I've contemplated a respirator, respirators usually don't filter out smells, but particles.  So I'll just do this downwind and hope for the best.  I'll use a hospital syringe and some clear flex tubing and just chuck the whole thing when done.  Makes no sense to try to clean and reuse, given the I have access to medical supplies.  Sometimes you just tempt fate and you move on.  Off to tax free Portland, OR to buy an "O" ring for the belt tensioner.  If you're gonna remove it, might as well put a new one on, since if you don't you'll be kicking yourself in the dupa next week when it starts to leak because you didn't "do it right".  I sympathize with the transmission story and using lower quality parts.  Every car guy has a story about using inferior parts or plastic parts or riveted window motors (my particular more than a pet peeve issue).  As the mechanic said..."rivets keep me in business."

EyeDoc1 wrote:

My supercharger is off the car, and I'm waiting for Amazon to deliver the oil today.  I'll change it outside, on the tailgate of my truck.  Being a vet, I've had to endure some "smells", and while I've contemplated a respirator, respirators usually don't filter out smells, but particles.  So I'll just do this downwind and hope for the best.  I'll use a hospital syringe and some clear flex tubing and just chuck the whole thing when done.  Makes no sense to try to clean and reuse, given the I have access to medical supplies.  Sometimes you just tempt fate and you move on.  Off to tax free Portland, OR to buy an "O" ring for the belt tensioner.  If you're gonna remove it, might as well put a new one on, since if you don't you'll be kicking yourself in the dupa next week when it starts to leak because you didn't "do it right".  I sympathize with the transmission story and using lower quality parts.  Every car guy has a story about using inferior parts or plastic parts or riveted window motors (my particular more than a pet peeve issue).  As the mechanic said..."rivets keep me in business."

...the smell isn't that intense, but it's a combination of sulfur and urea and other stuff that people find offensive, kind of like the smell of camels at the zoo if you get too close.  It is a synthetic oil, maybe what we are smelling is an added odorant specifically intended to make the product (and any leaks) *really* conspicuous (I think they succeeded).

The oil change on the supercharge went without a hitch.  I used a disposable hospital irrigator (sometimes called a syringe) that has a 2 oz capacity.  I affixed a piece of disposable tubing (AKA "hose"), clear, about 5" long and went to town sucking out the old oil and I did it off the car, outside, in nice weather.  The fluid was black but flowed easily. It had a smell, but it wasn't enough to kill anyone.  Just wouldn't want to spill it on my clothes. The new AC Delco fluid from Amazon came in a four ounce container, was clear in color, and I used about 6.5-7.0 ounces to do the refill.  Once the old fluid was extracted, I cut a fresh piece of tubing about 2" long, then flushed the syringe with clean oil and refilled the port till the new oil was overflowing.  The tool I used to remove the plug was a simple US spec'd Allen wrench and it came off easily.  Old fluid's in a container and I'll put it out for recycling once I finish up replacing the lower intake manifold.

Hope this helps someone.

Hey Doc,
Can you further explain the "O" ring for a tensioner.??? Curious.!!
I also sympathize with you about the rivets needed to change a window regulator. The rivets are a few dollars but the extra large rivet puller is a couple of hundred or maybe a little less. But still more than the average Joe wants to spend on a rivet puller for one job.
If you haven't replaced the LIM gaskets yet and still have everything off the top of the motor, i.e. supercharger and LIM. That should give you easy access to the heater hoses.
Your going to need to replace the elbow fittings for them while your doing this job. Also, I assume your going to use the "new" OEM LIM gasket. It is designed differently from the original.

Anyway, if everything is still apart and you have easy access to the heater hoses, I can send you both of the new ones.
I had bought them for my 98 before it ended up in the bone yard. They are just sitting here waiting to get thrown out. But if you need them or can use them, let me know.

Thank you for your service.

Rick

'Morning Ric...sure.  This is for a 1998 with a supercharger.  I pull it, the LIM and the tensioner off.  Reason was oil in the radiator, and has been mentioned before, when you can pull globules of goo out of the radiator and your coolant recovery tank has black stuff in it, time to figger out why.  And the failure of the lower intake manifold gaskets seems to be the number one element.  I ordered a supercharger gasket (Mahle) and a LIM manifold gasket set from Rock Auto.  [The Fel-Pro set from Rock Auto had the aluminum gaskets, along with 2 sets of valley seals and zero instruction on which to use or how to goop them--other videos supplied by Albertj set me right].  Since the coolant elbow(s) seem to be a bugaboo for everyone, I ordered TWO [slightly different sizes]  (and that was a big mistake...actually a small "couple of bucks" mistake because the 1998 doesn't have TWO plastic elbows.)  I just ASSUMED ALL Rivierias had two plastic elbows.  The do not.  Anyway, the tensioner is held on with 3 bolts, one of which is removed when the alternator is pulled.  In order to remove the plastic coolant elbow (which runs from the tensioner to the LIM), you may be able to tap with a mallet the LIM at the front (toward the rear or driver's side of the car) to disengage the "O" ring that's a component of the black plastic elbow.  Good luck with that strategy.  Plan B is you lift the LIM and try twisting it off, which will probably break the plastic elbow and you'll have to pick out the plastic pieces, probably along with the gasket.  The gasket on the elbow is about the size of a nickel.  The metal elbow comes with gasket.  From what I've read, some people don't care for the Dorman gaskets, claiming they leak.  I decided to play it safe, and when I got the Fel-Pro gasket set for the LIM, it came with elbow gaskets, so I have a metal elbow fromDorman but sporting Fel-Pro gaskets.  Best of both worlds.  Now the "other 'O' ring" that you mentioned.  That "O" ring is the size of a quarter, and is affixed to the coolant pipe that is integrated to the tensioner, meaning, nothing comes off.  When you go to remove the tensioner, you'll have to CAREFULLY remove 2-13mm bolts that aren't visible by sight, but you'll find them by groping on the underside of the tensioner.  Since apparently you're dealing with steel bolts and aluminum parts or blocks, wisdom here says go slow.  Air tools probably aren't good for suddenly jarring the bolts out.  The install torque specs are 37 foot lbs.  Anyway, removing the tensioner assembly requires prying the tensioner away from the block with either a large screwdriver or in my case, a large pry bar.  Seems the hold up was that "O" ring the size of a quarter wrapped around the coolant neck really was pesky and not wanting to come off easily.  Prying, rocking, swearing..the tensioner unit will eventually come off.  Since I had such a hard time removing mine, it stood to reason I should replace that "O" ring simply because if it was hard to remove, it might have been damaged, and I hate doing the same job twice.  If you have the Rock Auto supplied Fel-Pro gasket set, it comes with a new "O" ring and replacement is simply a pick and some antifreeze as a lubricant.  One thing I did was to try to clean everything as scrupulously as possible.

I appreciate the hose offer.  I got too much reassembled, but if I need 'em, I'll PM you and take them off your hands.  Thanks also for the military sentiments...much appreciated.

Rickw wrote:

Hey Doc,
Can you further explain the "O" ring for a tensioner.??? Curious.!!
I also sympathize with you about the rivets needed to change a window regulator. The rivets are a few dollars but the extra large rivet puller is a couple of hundred or maybe a little less. But still more than the average Joe wants to spend on a rivet puller for one job.
If you haven't replaced the LIM gaskets yet and still have everything off the top of the motor, i.e. supercharger and LIM. That should give you easy access to the heater hoses.
Your going to need to replace the elbow fittings for them while your doing this job. Also, I assume your going to use the "new" OEM LIM gasket. It is designed differently from the original.

Anyway, if everything is still apart and you have easy access to the heater hoses, I can send you both of the new ones.
I had bought them for my 98 before it ended up in the bone yard. They are just sitting here waiting to get thrown out. But if you need them or can use them, let me know.

Thank you for your service.

Rick

Rivet puller?

Huh?

I used a Dremel with a drill bit...

And BTW Christen, you're doing fine.

Albertj

albertj wrote:

Rivet puller?

Huh?

I used a Dremel with a drill bit...

And BTW Christen, you're doing fine.

Albertj

The Rivet Puller I was suggesting is the tool for installing the new Rivets. I also drill the old ones out.

What would call the Large Rivet installation tool, other than a puller.? I know the name "Puller" seems counter-intuitive but that is what they have been called everywhere I have worked. It references Pulling a New Rivet until it is set.

Rickw wrote:

albertj wrote:

Rivet puller?

Huh?

I used a Dremel with a drill bit...

And BTW Christen, you're doing fine.

Albertj

The Rivet Puller I was suggesting is the tool for installing the new Rivets. I also drill the old ones out.

What would call the Large Rivet installation tool, other than a puller.? I know the name "Puller" seems counter-intuitive but that is what they have been called everywhere I have worked. It references Pulling a New Rivet until it is set.

I did not know that, being uninitiated. Thanks.

When I replaced my window motors I used machine screws and nuts with nylon anti-slip inserts. I did/do use a rivet puller to re-tack the heat shields under the car. Have a few to do before this winter. Also need to clean and treat (rustbullet) the body pan and chassis.

Sorry...I just mentioned one of the things that's been known to honk off even the Holy Father, but I've needed some rather expensive door window motors and junkyards and me are on a first name basis. The problem with harvesting parts that are riveted from a junkyard is more than "hey, you got a 6 point 10 mm socket I could borrow?" So how do you remove a rivet easily when you have no access to power for a Dremel. Yes, I know, battery operated drills are available, but wouldn't it just be easier if Ford or BMW to bolt them on instead of riveting? I was just venting, and Rick was just commiserating.