Winter Snow Tires

I'm trying to scrape together some cash to get at least a pair of winter tires for the car. I have the summer tires on my 18's and so I'd definitely like to have Blizzak's or some other good pure winter tires around my stock wheels for the winter. I've looked around a little at tech discussions about winter tires. I've gathered that it's most ideal to have a fairly narrow non-low profile tire for the snow & ice grip. I'm wondering if I aught to use something like a 205/65/16 instead of the stock size - 225/60/16?

Yes, taller narrower tires work better in the snow. Don't go with 205/65....they're like bike tires lol. I think a 215/65/16 would work well.

I've had *Very* good results from stock size winter tires on all 4 corners. My first set was a set of Michelin X-ice. Second set (am using them now, probably their last season) is Goodyear UltraGrip Ice. My stock rims are chromes; I have the winter tires on a set of used rims I bought from Wilbert's in Victor NY. The rims were straight but had a little corrosion on the faces -- which I removed with a Scotchbrite then etched clean (all you need is off-the-shelf wheel cleaner containing ammonium chloride as active ingredient) and repainted with off-the-shelf wheel paint. The wheels have stayed clean several seasons, although they are *only* used in winter.

I'd look at the Dunlop Graspic, Continental, and Blizzak.

I'd get all 4 if possible for predictable handling.

I'd get used rims to cheap out in style.

Albertj

Albert, what would you say on THESE tires? As I looked at what was available, those are the only winter tires for a my stock rims that don't have a weak speed rating. I don't want to be sweating when I want to speed excessively during the winter when It's dry. They have a good rating but I'm going to look more. Other option I'm looking at is THIS which I like because it's a few dollars cheaper and it's a 215/65/16. A tire size calculator says that, compared to stock size, that would have .2" more sidewall and the overall diameter would be barely half an inch larger - not even noticeable.

Anybody ever put Michelin HydroEdge on? Or any other all season for that matter?

I have Michelin Primacy 235/60-16's. They did fine last winter in NY and would be OK in Atlanta but are way to worn for Central NY snow. I am not sure I can afford a dedicated snow set and then buy another set in the spring. If I do, I am planning on using the 12 spoke silver wheels for winter tires and the 7 spoke chromes for summers.

turtleman wrote:

Albert, what would you say on THESE tires? As I looked at what was available, those are the only winter tires for a my stock rims that don't have a weak speed rating. I don't want to be sweating when I want to speed excessively during the winter when It's dry. They have a good rating but I'm going to look more. Other option I'm looking at is THIS which I like because it's a few dollars cheaper and it's a 215/65/16. A tire size calculator says that, compared to stock size, that would have .2" more sidewall and the overall diameter would be barely half an inch larger - not even noticeable.

I do not have experience with Hankook so can' t comment from knowledge.

Falkens are made by Bridgestone/Firestone IIRC.

You might want to look at the selections on TireRack.com; you also might want to see what's on offer locally, early in the winter some tire places try to re-shelve and clear out last years' tires (you can tell by DOT number). I use the ratings on TIreRack.com; they use a combination of user feedback and test track results (they have their own test track).

Albertj

sburch23 wrote:

Anybody ever put Michelin HydroEdge on? Or any other all season for that matter?

I have Michelin Primacy 235/60-16's. They did fine last winter in NY and would be OK in Atlanta but are way to worn for Central NY snow. I am not sure I can afford a dedicated snow set and then buy another set in the spring. If I do, I am planning on using the 12 spoke silver wheels for winter tires and the 7 spoke chromes for summers.

I've been running Michelin HydroEdge's on my car for a few years now. Great set of tires. I have gone through some pretty deep snow in them and they work great in the rain.

I just put a new set of bridgestone weather force this weekend
They seem like they will do fairly well in our Minnesota weather year round.
They was about 150 less for all four than the hydroedge would have been and they did fairly well on some ice snow filled back roads the other day.
Theres no reason for me to buy winter tires because if its bad I get in my 98 chevy ext cab and push the button on the dash for 4 wheel and have some fun. I just have the riv to save miles on the truck and a little gas when its not safer to drive the truck but like I said this is Mn and it can get damned nasty here.

The Riv handles OK in the snow, but given the weight distribution I think it's due to "the miracle of Traction Control."

albertj wrote:

The Riv handles OK in the snow, but given the weight distribution I think it's due to "the miracle of Traction Control."

I always found the riv to be a very excellent handling car for the snow. And the traction control hasn't worked on the 95 since I bought it. It always seemed to me to be due to that it always behaves very predictably. On very slippery corners the back swings out just like you would expect, and gets pulled back in quite intuitively. Here in Canada many of us like to get out on a skid pan to get used to our cars in slippery conditions. My friends and I all like to swap cars and get a feel for each others. Even compared to brand new cars with sophisticated TC, we all agree that the riv is quite good simply because it does what is expected.

Note: If anyone reading this has never been on a skid pan or played in a snowy parking lot(WITH NO POLES!) I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND it. Its fun, and provides valuable experience. Its saved my own ass when avoiding a highway collision, going sideways/backwards at 100km, pulling everything under control, and avoiding the guardrail.

My buddy's and I used to go to the giant church they built on the corner across from my house. And when I say giant, I mean GIANT. It has like 15 parking lots. We used to go in there and make skid courses around all the light poles in the winter. It was awesome. Although, I've never had the Riv's ass end kick out on me yet, it does go quite good in the snow even with my half eaten tires. It's just a PITA to get moving.

I once went to a parking lot with one lamp post. We said "we couldn't possibly hit that". Sure enough my buddy's fox-body mustang just couldn't resist. Hit it head on at low speed(30 km), snapped the bumped, rad, pushed the engine far enough into the passenger compartment to have the gearshift at a weird angle. Can't imagine what might happen to that car in a high speed accident.

As far as getting going, my buddy has a new g8. 4100 lb car, great brand new snow tires, and a whole bunch of weight in the back. TC is so twitchy that it usually wont get moving in the snow. Just sits there with the TC humming away. Many g8 guys find they need to turn off TC, stick it in second, and ease into it.

Yeah well, the G8 is also an Australian based car......they have no snow lol. I can't tell you how many lower control arms (all 4) on those I've replaced. Even after 5,000 miles the joints would go bad. Those cars aren't designed for "winter weather" or the Northern roads.

Abaddon wrote:

Yeah well, the G8 is also an Australian based car......they have no snow lol. I can't tell you how many lower control arms (all 4) on those I've replaced. Even after 5,000 miles the joints would go bad. Those cars aren't designed for "winter weather" or the Northern roads.

haha! funny you mention the lower control arms. My bud just had them all done, again.

Got 'em.  Michelin HydroEdge 235/60-16 for $692 installed.  What a difference!  Not just starting and stopping but also turning.

Worn out Michelin Primacy 235/60-16 with 70,000 miles.


New HydroEdge


Scary situation on the old tires while I waiting on the new ones to come in.  This picture is of Highway 215 headed north into Cortland NY.  The road goes downhill for a mile.  It is steep enough that if you are at 60mph at the top of the hill, without touching the accelerator or brake you will be at 80mph at the bottom.  Where the road curves to the right (but not recognizable) is the signature Par 3 5th hole of Willowbrook Golf Course on the left.  Driving into work the other morning, there was 6 inches of snow on the road.  I kept the car at 30 going down the hill.  Before I got all the way to the bottom I got off the brake to build some momentum so I could make it up the other side.  Went to turn right and the car started plowing.  In the second or two that I drifted to the other side, I was thinking what a shame to mess up the car the day before I get new tires.  The golf course is run by a really nice family but they would not have been none too pleased if I ended up in the fairway.  I mean, this hole is cart path only!

Photo of the road near the bottom without snow on it.

Just in time for the snow: Firestone Winterforce (stock size on factory chromes). Got these on special (buy 3, get one free) a few days ago:





They are stud-ready, but I think I'm deciding to pass. Still I haven't put them on the car yet, so still pondering. From what I've read, studs are noisy and don't really help unless you're on ice. We don't usually get hit that hard around these parts.

Btw, I found a great resource on snow tires, learned a lot reading here: http://www.snowtire.info

Neither rain nor snow nor sleet nor dark of night nor the Baja 1000 will keep Aaron's Riv from it's appointed rounds!

I miss having snow but I DON'T miss the semi-annual tire swap. Always a PITA. Those are some nice treads though.

Aside from the screaming noise made above 60 mph, I really like these Winterforce tires. We got 2" last night, and I've never been so confident driving in snow with the Riv. I expected traction, handling, and braking improvements, but I was surprised at how much difference a set of tires can make. As John from snowtire.info said: a $400 investment in snow tires is less than a $500 insurance deductible, and you can use the tires again next year. Agreed.

I wanted to get full winter tires for this year but the cost of my engine transplant being pushed up 6months boned that plan. I have Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus's here that need to get mounted onto the 18's so I'm hoping those will work out reasonably well for this winter. Although since I'm used to the balding summer tires from last winter anyway, I bet these will be a significant improvement. Plus the torsen!

I did not know this. I would have thought a wider tire is still better in the winter/snow. Guess not.

https://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=126

"Original Equipment tire and wheel sizing has evolved over the years to where yesterday's typical 13", 14" and 15" sizes have been replaced with today's 16", 17", 18" and larger sizes. For that matter, many current cars, vans and light trucks now feature wide, low profile tires mounted on large diameter wheels as standard equipment or factory options.

Unfortunately wide, low profile tires have to "plow" a wide path through deep snow, where narrower tires have an easier time. So if you're likely to drive through deep snow this year, you'll want winter / snow tires and wheels in sizes that help put the laws of physics on your side."

I think the idea is that a narrower tire will penetrate the snow and give the tire traction with the road surface. Wider tires want to float above the snow (the contact patch is over more square inches, so there's more support). Think about skis vs. ice skates. Skis let you slide over the snow, whereas skates let you sink in. With a car you definitely want to sink in, so you can do things like accelerate, brake, and steer.

One reason a lot of people are against the movement to wide 20" rims and tires as the factory choice on Yukons and other light duty trucks, CUVs, etc. That and the extreme cost of replacement tires...

One little tiny dusting of snow, and I'm sliding all over the place. The 245/45's are awful even though they're considered "All Season". The OE tires (P225/60/R16) were fantastic in the snow...especially the cheap Goodyear Integrity's I installed before last winter. They're cheap, and they wear out fast, but damn are they good in the white shit.

If you guys think all-season tires are good in snow, try some Blizzaks, Winterforce, or Nokians. After running dedicated snow tires, I will try my hardest to never again buy an all-season tire. Having two sets of wheels isn't the most affordable option, but the improved handing for both winter and summer seasons is more than worth it, imo. And since you run each set only half the year, they last twice as long in the end.

Riv is an amazing winter handler with the right tires!

Well I certainly didn't buy All Season tires for the snow. I knew damn well that the tires I put on there were going to suck. That's why I have the factory wheels still sitting in the shop...for winter.

Blizzaks are amazing. Buddy of mine had them on his Firebird for the winter. I swear it felt like it was 4x4. Just don't drive on dry pavement if you can help it. They need to be taken off as soon as the snow breaks. Those things throw chunks off of them....