refilling radiator

Hi guys
Just replaced my radiator on a 95 riv, refilled with 60/40 till full, opened the vent on the thermostat hub to let air ascape. Trouble is I have only put back about 1.5 gallons of mix in and had drained about 2 gallons out. Notice upper radiator hose is very hot, lower not even warm. Had car idling 15 minutes and took it for a 20 minute drive with gauge flucuating between 195/200. Doesn't seem like rad fluid is circulating yet - could I have an air bubble preventing proper flow since lower rad hose is not hot? If so how do I get rid of the air - opeing the vent doesn't seem to help. Any suggestions much appreciated. Al

short answer: top off the surge tank to the add/full cold line then drive it up on ramps (or somehow get the nose up), start it, turn on the heater (set to 90 F with dash or floor vents on). when it's warm (you get heat out the vents) run the idle up to 3000 RPM (hold for 2 sec then release to reg idle) five times while watching the tempgauge to ensure it's not overheating; and then burp it again through the vent on the thermostat hub.

long answer: these engines can be tough to fill.

Here is 'by the book' what you're to do with a N/A or SC Riv to fill the coolant:

1) First the FYI stuff: System holds 13.2 quarts of diluted coolant. Do not use a solution exceeding 70% antifreeze. Wear leather gloves so you don't get burned (bad).
2) Next a word to the wary: you may want to also add GM 3634621 (cooling system sealant) at each flush & fill for maintenance.
3) be sure hoses are secure and drain(s) closed.
4) with system full (at least as full as you can get it) start the car
4) set heater and A/C control into ANY position except MAX, and set temperature to highest setting
5) allow car to idle until the lower radiator to coolant pump hose becomes hot (this can take several minutes)
6) after that lower rad hose gets hot, cycle the engine speed up to around 3000 RPM and back to idle 5 times (at least),
7) on VIN 1 engines (the SC engines) NOW slowly open the bleed valve on the thermostat housing to let the air out. You may neet to leave it open for 15-20 seconds; let all the air out and a little antifreeze will perk out too. When it's just antifreeze coming out you can close the bleed valve back up.
8) NOW fill the radiator (at the radiator cap), then close the rad cap and be sure the cap is aligned right with the coolant recovery tube;
9) NOW top off the reservoir/surge tank to the "hot" level, then reinstall the cap on the surge tank
10) Now you have to WAIT until the engine cools off all the way to ambient temperature. When it is cold, then...
11) check coolant level in the surge tank; it will probably be a bit low. Top it off to the "ADD/FULL COLD" level.

hope this helps, good luck

Albertj

thank you albertj i'll let you know how it goes - can't get to it now (car is not in use). Probably get to it tuesday. thanks again al

I would make one change: The lower hose??

All my life we've just felt the top hose to see when the thermostat opens... and of course, the lower hose can't get hot unless the radiator is being filled with hot coolant from the upper hose anyway.

More importantly, the lower hose is NOT a good place to be putting your hand with the engine running! One accessory belt or cooling fan can ruin your whole day...
.

Eldo wrote:

I would make one change: The lower hose??

All my life we've just felt the top hose to see when the thermostat opens... and of course, the lower hose can't get hot unless the radiator is being filled with hot coolant from the upper hose anyway.

More importantly, the lower hose is NOT a good place to be putting your hand with the engine running! One accessory belt or cooling fan can ruin your whole day...
.

Yeah, I wrote/meant the lower hose, off of the thermostat housing, and of course you must be extra careful to stay clear of the belts and fans.

Albertj

albertj wrote:

Eldo wrote:

I would make one change: The lower hose??

All my life we've just felt the top hose to see when the thermostat opens... and of course, the lower hose can't get hot unless the radiator is being filled with hot coolant from the upper hose anyway.

More importantly, the lower hose is NOT a good place to be putting your hand with the engine running! One accessory belt or cooling fan can ruin your whole day...
.

Yeah, I wrote/meant the lower hose, off of the thermostat housing, and of course you must be extra careful to stay clear of the belts and fans.

Albertj

The upper hose is attached to the thermostat housing, Albert. The lower hose connects to the water pump intake.

Uh, are you perhaps reading from the Aurora/Northstar section?
.

Eldo wrote:

albertj wrote:

Eldo wrote:

I would make one change: The lower hose??

All my life we've just felt the top hose to see when the thermostat opens... and of course, the lower hose can't get hot unless the radiator is being filled with hot coolant from the upper hose anyway.

More importantly, the lower hose is NOT a good place to be putting your hand with the engine running! One accessory belt or cooling fan can ruin your whole day...
.

Yeah, I wrote/meant the lower hose, off of the thermostat housing, and of course you must be extra careful to stay clear of the belts and fans.

Albertj

The upper hose is attached to the thermostat housing, Albert. The lower hose connects to the water pump intake.

Uh, are you perhaps reading from the Aurora/Northstar section?
.

No, worse, from memory. I'll go look at the beast in the garage!

Albertj

OK I went out and looked. I will now give quick comments and then explain.

1) The way this car is set up probably either hose would work as a 'telltale' for coolant circulation. However, I would definitely use the lower hose & will explain it after the other (numbered) quick comments.

2) I was wrong remembering the thermostat housing location on the block. That is, I meant the lower hose, but the thermo housing is on the upper hose (can't miss it really)

3) Mark (Eldo) is *correct* that the lower hose is *not* a good place to be putting your hand because of the chance you'll get snagged in the moving SC belt. I would do it but that does not mean you must. Take a look at the thing and decide what will work for you, dear reader. Hint - if you reach at it from under the front bumper instead of over the radiator support the belts are kinda far away.

4) Thinking about it, a remote IR thermometer would do the trick from overhead and keep your arm out of the small passage. Actron makes 2 that are fairly cheap I've seen 'em on eBay for $20 or so. I'd get the nicer one with laser pointer though, they run more like $50-$80.

Explanation: I'd use the lower hose because than I'd know that the waterpump was pulling coolant thru the entire system including radiator and no longer churning coolant or sucking air or whatever. In practice, in a functioning cooling system with a radiator that's clear enough to function and not that much air in the system using the upper hose to tell would be OK. There is enough room for many if not most folks, working with proper equipment and due care, to be clear reaching for the lower hose. That said, don't tempt Fate--because she'll take the bait every time and she plays for keeps.

That said -- I am certain that (at least) one of the mechanics at an independent shop I go to would not touch the lower hose on a dare with the engine running, his hands/forearms are way too big (he's about 6' 3", and around 275 lbs I'd say). My arms are not that big. This may sound a little retentive but I wear a set of coveralls when working on the car, they are not loose nor too tight, along with rubber-palm gloves and safety glasses.

Parting Point is I post my directions in good faith, as with everything else on the Internet there may be errors (I welcome them being pointed out like Eldo did, thank you) and I trust you'll use my directions or not at your own risk after ascertaining what you're willing to do. I stand corrected on the issues that Eldo pointed out and have tried to explain.

Albertj

Thanks for all the advice - followed your advice albertj - radiator is properly filled - coolant is circulating. Al

awlaylan wrote:

Thanks for all the advice - followed your advice albertj - radiator is properly filled - coolant is circulating. Al

you are welcome and thanks again to Eldo (mark) for comments about the lower/upper hose. That was important to clear up.

I kinda wonder how much fluid you had to add...

Albertj

Thank you for the kind words Albert - and I, too, am curious how much additional coolant it took...

Hello Albertj and Eldo,

It didn't take too much more coolant (filling it at the radiator) after I performed your steps (jacked the nose up - put the heat on high, let it warm up and opened the bleeder/rev'd it on intervals as you said ) added maybe a half pint more.

However, after the car was cranking out heat, I filled up the overflow tank to the hot level (before I started I had filled it to the cool level at the same time I had filled the radiator) and then let the car cool back down - it took the overfowl tank down to just a tad above the cold level. The amount that I drained from the old radiator is about equal to what I put into the new radiator plus what the new radiator pulled in from the overflow tank (within about a pint) Engine temp stays pretty constant at between 195 to 200. Took the car on an extended trip (2 hr round trip) and temps looked good and no leaks. I think this prob is resolved.

Next project will be undertaken tuesday -replacing the s/c coupler - which requires removing the s/c (95 series 1) - plan on replacing the s/c gasket too. Will change the smelly whale oil while I'm at it. I'll be following the writeup on this forum for this project. Thanks to you and Eldo for your instruction and advice - I appreciate your knowledge and for pointing out proper safety precautions. Al

awlaylan wrote:

Hello Albertj and Eldo,

It didn't take too much more coolant (filling it at the radiator) after I performed your steps (jacked the nose up - put the heat on high, let it warm up and opened the bleeder/rev'd it on intervals as you said ) added maybe a half pint more.

However, after the car was cranking out heat, I filled up the overflow tank to the hot level (before I started I had filled it to the cool level at the same time I had filled the radiator) and then let the car cool back down - it took the overfowl tank down to just a tad above the cold level. The amount that I drained from the old radiator is about equal to what I put into the new radiator plus what the new radiator pulled in from the overflow tank (within about a pint) Engine temp stays pretty constant at between 195 to 200. Took the car on an extended trip (2 hr round trip) and temps looked good and no leaks. I think this prob is resolved.

Next project will be undertaken tuesday -replacing the s/c coupler - which requires removing the s/c (95 series 1) - plan on replacing the s/c gasket too. Will change the smelly whale oil while I'm at it. I'll be following the writeup on this forum for this project. Thanks to you and Eldo for your instruction and advice - I appreciate your knowledge and for pointing out proper safety precautions. Al

Again you're welcome and I agree, I think you're done with the radiator for now.

As for the SC, does anyone remember whether there is an alternate fill (other than the whale oil) for the Series 1 SC and if so please post. Also it's important to check/top off the SC every other oil change. The better dealer mechanics used to do that as part of an oil change service, most quick-change places have not a clue, and independents are inbetween.

Happy driving!

Albertj

I've done a little searching around the site, and there seems to be a consensus that the 1995 M62 blower was given a spot in either the owner's manual or shop manual where it says that a full-synthetic 5W-30 like Mobil 1 can be used instead of the Eaton/GM whale-oil... Some folks recommend an additive from Lucas Oil, but I'll leave you to decide for youself.

My own, non-M62 opinion is that I can't reason why a full-on synthetic wouldn't be good enough for ( as you say ) a simple set of bearings... The 'natural' shit is nasty when it gets old, and it certainly doesn't have to deal with the kind of PSI that plain old motor oil does.

Having said that, with an M90 myself, I stick with the GM oil and have replaced it twice since I got the car, as the original owner never replaced it because of the silly, NON-explicit directions in the manual... At 69,000 miles it stunk to high heaven and was obviously worn out, and after another 10,000 miles it seemed pretty good, except for the little bit of nasty that was left from the original change. Once in a while I wipe the snout and sniff it - so far, so clean...

(No sophomoric jokes please... )
Mark

there is some real reason why you only use whale oil in the M90, I don't recall that reason.

(just kidding) Probably to fill the oil lamps in the cloisters of the GM design monastery...



Albertj

I cant imagine why either. Ill call eaton. My 50/50 mix of 5w30/lucas oil stabilizer, is working good. My manual saz i can use it,and use it i shall. Cant understand why later years dont have the option? And who in the f..k figured whale oil to be a good lube for a supercharger? WTF! I gotta know why