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98riv
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PostSubject: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 2:17 pm

Something wierd happened when I was driving my car today. The rpm gauge was going crazy. It kept swinging randomly, sometimes maxing out the gauge. The engine rpm's stayed constant. I noticed the traction control light also turned on. I pulled off to the side of the road and turned it off and then tried to turn it on and it wouldn't turn over. The radio worked, but you could here it try to start and then it wouldn't. I got the car jump started and everything was normal again. The battery was replaced a few months ago and I had the alternator tested today and it passed. Could it still be the alternator? Bad engine ground? Or could it be something else?

Thanks for the help.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 2:50 pm

Did your car have the optional cellphone interface? Pull the rear seat and look for a silver box with a decal on it says Motorola. Probably drivers's side rear.

If you find one PM me.

Other than that, check for loose/busted wire in the harness between ignition module and firewall, and check the ground under the module (don't have to pull module but might need a mirror) and at firewall way under the cruise control servo.

How long between when you pulled over/died and the re-start. If an hour or so, suspect the crank sensor or the wiring to it.

Albertj
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98riv
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 5:33 pm

albertj wrote:
Did your car have the optional cellphone interface? Pull the rear seat and look for a silver box with a decal on it says Motorola. Probably drivers's side rear.

If you find one PM me.

Other than that, check for loose/busted wire in the harness between ignition module and firewall, and check the ground under the module (don't have to pull module but might need a mirror) and at firewall way under the cruise control servo.

How long between when you pulled over/died and the re-start. If an hour or so, suspect the crank sensor or the wiring to it.

Albertj

I don't have the optional cellphone interface. I didn't even know some of the cars had that option. I went through and cleaned the engine ground up, it had some rust and crap on it. There was about 10 minutes between when I pulled over and I got it jumped. I hooked everything back up and it is acting fine right now. Maybe something had worked just a little bit loose and I tightened it up when I went through it. scratch Where is the ignition module again? Nevermind found this link https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t7305-writeup-ignition-control-module-icm-harness-repair It is for the series 1, but it should be good enough to figure out.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 6:05 pm

sounds like a bad crankshaft position sensor to me.

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
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98riv
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 7:15 pm

I checked the ignition module wiring and ground and it looked ok. Would a bad crankshaft position sensor make the gauge go crazy though? I will look up more information about it. I don't know if it is related, but when I hooked everything back up and started it; it wouldn't start right away. It cranked for two seconds and then turned on. It did that for a couple more times and it seems to be back to normal. That was on a cold engine. When I had the problem, I had just got done driving on the highway. Was probably driving for 20 minutes before it happened. I also have around 55,000 miles.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2


Last edited by 98riv on Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 7:19 pm

98riv wrote:
I checked the ignition module wiring and ground and it looked ok. Would a bad crankshaft position sensor make the gauge go crazy though? I will look up more information about it. I don't know if it is related, but when I hooked everything back up and started it; it wouldn't start right away. It cranked for two seconds and then turned on. It did that for a couple more times and it seems to be back to normal.

Depends on how the crank sensor goes bad. Usually they go bad such that they simply open when they are too warm, and the car shuts down due to no crank signal, it is almost as if you turned off the ignition key. If I remember right what I was told, PCM will turn off the fuel pump and stop sparking, effectively shutting the car down, if CKP readings are out of bounds. I am sure one of the GM mechanics on this site can explain this better.


Last edited by albertj on Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 7:21 pm

yes. that is actually one of the symptoms of a bad CKP sensor.
crazy tach, stalling engine, no crank. sometimes you only get some of those symptoms, other times all of them. normally acts up worse when hot outside and or the engine is hot.

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
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98riv
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 7:24 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
yes. that is actually one of the symptoms of a bad CKP sensor.
crazy tach, stalling engine, no crank. sometimes you only get some of those symptoms, other times all of them. normally acts up worse when hot outside and or the engine is hot.

Thanks. I am looking at the thread you made about it a while back. Does it just keep getting worse until it won't start anymore? If it does it again, I will replace it. Is it hard to change on jack stands? I saw it was about a 2 hour job.

_________________
1998 Supercharged Riviera - Custom CAI, Alpine spx-13ref, Infinity 6x9's, Alpine 4 Channel Amp, Kicker KX3, Silverstars, STB, Hawk Brake Pads, Monroe Air Shocks, KYB GR2
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 7:30 pm

can be done on a jack stand (passenger tire needs to come off)

you should replace it for the shear fact that if your car stalls on the highway its a serious safety concern, especially if someone else is driving the car and doesnt know to expect it.

sensor doesnt cost much and really isnt all the hard to replace once you figure out how the crank pulley puller works.

_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
Electrical Problem Dsc_0110
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 8:35 pm

Mr.Riviera wrote:
can be done on a jack stand (passenger tire needs to come off)

you should replace it for the shear fact that if your car stalls on the highway its a serious safety concern, especially if someone else is driving the car and doesnt know to expect it.

sensor doesnt cost much and really isnt all the hard to replace once you figure out how the crank pulley puller works.

Whatever you do:

- do NOT cheap out on a sensor. I replaced mine twice when the first one (a Standard but not the Blue Streak, their "economy" line) pooped out after 2 years.

- get a line on a replacement balancer, in case you discover yours has any fatigue or any tears however small in the rubber.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyFri Mar 25, 2011 8:54 pm

agree on getting a quality ac delco sensor. they are only $15 more than the cheapo ones (rockauto).
also its a good idea to replace the front main seal if it looks torn from removing the balance.


_________________
1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP
AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
Electrical Problem Dsc_0110
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyMon Feb 04, 2013 9:00 pm

Weirdest thing I happened to me today. I am driving home from work, got my beats on loud, and I am messing with the tone setting on the OEM stereo. All of a sudden I lose all power in my car AS I AM DRIVING 40mph! Everything shuts off and I have no throttle. I turn my blinkers on and pull over. Steering was gone too! I noticed the red battery light blinking. I put it in park and started it back up no problem and took off.

People behind me were pissed with impatience and I was weirded out. Only thing I was doing at the time was switching between tone settings. I cycled through the settings about 4 or 5 times before it happened.

WTF?
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyMon Feb 04, 2013 9:07 pm

Your engine stalled. Probably not electrical, and not related to the radio. Smells to me like the fuel pump starting to go bad.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyMon Feb 04, 2013 9:10 pm

AA wrote:
Your engine stalled. Probably not electrical, and not related to the radio. Smells to me like the fuel pump starting to go bad.
O great...
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyMon Feb 04, 2013 9:23 pm

You can still drive it for a little while, maybe will last till Spring. If it's the pump, it will happen again, then more frequently until the car won't start up. If/when that happens, open the trunk and bang on the floor above the spare tire well. If you hear the pump start, then you know for sure.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyTue Feb 05, 2013 12:30 am

charlieRobinson wrote:
All of a sudden I lose all power in my car AS I AM DRIVING 40mph! Everything shuts off and I have no throttle.

Charlie, just to be clear: you only meant engine power right, not all electrical power shut off?
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyTue Feb 05, 2013 8:51 am

It's not the fuel pump.... just a poltergeist. censor
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyTue Feb 05, 2013 8:52 am

Eldo wrote:
charlieRobinson wrote:
All of a sudden I lose all power in my car AS I AM DRIVING 40mph! Everything shuts off and I have no throttle.

Charlie, just to be clear: you only meant engine power right, not all electrical power shut off?

Engine power and steering. Radio turned off too but I still had my signals.
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Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyTue Feb 05, 2013 4:58 pm

Well, the steering pump is run by the engine so that makes sense, but the radio going out implies that there is an electrical problem.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyTue Feb 05, 2013 6:06 pm

In the first description, he didn't mention the radio specifically shutting off. I'm wondering if it really did.

If the power did go out, could be the ignition switch. But would he still have signals?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
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http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
Eldo
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyTue Feb 05, 2013 11:37 pm

AA wrote:
In the first description, he didn't mention the radio specifically shutting off. I'm wondering if it really did.

If the power did go out, could be the ignition switch. But would he still have signals?

I don't have a schematic handy to check the turn signals, but he'd still have the 4-way flashers...
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charlieRobinson
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyWed Feb 06, 2013 4:30 pm

Radio turned off. lost all lights in the cabin except for red battery light. Caution lights worked too. It was bizarre, to say the least.

Maybe I got hit by an EMP wave or something.. lmao
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyWed Feb 06, 2013 4:52 pm

Maybe your pump is okay. I'm leaning toward the ignition now. You could try turning your key to "off" while driving and see it it brings back memories. smile

_________________
'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch

^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'05 GTO • 85k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun


'70 Olds Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe • 116k miles • 455 Rocket V8
Because cool


'95 Celica • 152k miles • 0-60: yes
Because free
Back to top Go down
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/657082/4
LARRY70GS
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyWed Feb 06, 2013 5:45 pm

When the switch goes bad like that, frequently, you can make it die just by wiggling it.

_________________
98 Riviera SC3800  All stock except gutted air box.
1970 Buick GS455 Stage1, TSP built 470BBB, 602HP/589TQ
Best MPH, 116.06 MPH, Best ET, 11.54
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PostSubject: Re: Electrical Problem   Electrical Problem EmptyWed Feb 06, 2013 5:47 pm

Ignition switch makes sense since he seams to have lost power to systems that need the key in run position to operate. You may be able to duplicate the problem by wiggling the key just a little with the car running. I would check connections for corrosion and looseness. Has anyone ever seen an intermittent problem with our ignition switches? I'm leaning toward a bad connection at one of the large electrical connections such as battery cables, 12v junction block under hood or at starter, and all grounds. Intermittent problems can drive you crazy. Good luck my man!
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