97 l67 Trans Problems

i recently bought a 97 Riv for very cheap, was told the trans was shot. Car still moves but does not appear to have first and absolutely no 4th gear. I have read about fuses and solenoids i wanted to try every possible thing before i drop the cradle to replace it.

most of the solenoids require dropping the craddle and pulling the trans.
I dont know of any fuses that control gears, but it never hurts to check all of them anyways.
Take an ohm meter across all the fuses in the IP, under the rear seat and in the engine bay.

im asking because the trans doesnt apper to be shot it doesnt slip or bang into the gears. The Trans fluid is black but i doubt that would prevent it from shifting into those particular gears. The valve cover on the motor is marked as it came out of a Park Ultra, idk if the trans was also swapped out. would a bad solenoid set a dtc?

I'm not sure about the DTC for solenoids, but if you said that the tranny fluid was black then you should absolutely change the fluid and filter first, and if that was not the problem you'll have to diagnose the transmission further.

here is the wright up for changing the transmission fluid and filter.

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t3692-write-up-transmission-fluid-filter-change

if it doesnt go into 4th then you will set a DTC on the highway. The PCM will basically detect the rpms are higher than they should be and set the code.
Burnt fluid is never good, but provided there are no metal particles you may be able to fix it with some new solenoids. Then again it may need new fwd bands.

You could pull the pan, inspect the magnet and then fill it with new fluid. (i wouldnt flush it)
Based on the amount of metal on the magnet you may be in for a rebuild.
Best case scenario the fluid is just burnt and you have to drop the trans to replace a solenoid. No telling how much longer any of the other solenoids and components will last.

If it were me, i'd have a shop pull it and rebuild it with ALL new solenoids, clutches, bands and any other part they think looks worn.
Should cost ballpark $1000-$1500 but you will have a nice "new" transmission that should last a long time. (provided a good shop does the rebuild)

i drove it today on the freeway never set a dtc and i tried the trick with the break and i got no lock up or unlock from the tc. The fuid had no metal in it i wont know for sure till i drop the pan this weekend,I just dont want to waste time and money swapping parts if nothing good is going to come from it. Worst case scenario ill drop the cradle and take it in for a rebuild or find a used one, which trans will interchange with this one? I know the lss,gtp and gs's all had the L67s

SuperRivL67 wrote:

i drove it today on the freeway never set a dtc and i tried the trick with the break and i got no lock up or unlock from the tc. The fuid had no metal in it i wont know for sure till i drop the pan this weekend,I just dont want to waste time and money swapping parts if nothing good is going to come from it. Worst case scenario ill drop the cradle and take it in for a rebuild or find a used one, which trans will interchange with this one? I know the lss,gtp and gs's all had the L67s

L67 is the engine RPO. it does not determine what transmission came with it.
If you have a supercharged 97 riv then you need a 4T65E transmission with the correct rear mount webbing.
I believe the interchangeable cars are 97+ riviera and some of the park ave ultra's.

It's possible that the 1-2 shift solenoid is stuck off. This would cause only 2-3 gears to work. Before you do anything, I would find somebody with a Tech II to diagnose it for you. No sense in ripping chit apart if you don't know what's wrong with it.

Check for codes.....most trans codes won't set until you actually drive the car, or will be stored and not illuminate the SES light.

Does the fluid smell burnt? If so, consider that thing toast.

Considering the low resale value of these cars, your best bet is to locate a used transmission and install it or have it installed. They are generally bullet proof transmissions. Check car-parts.com

so what did you read about solenoids and fuses ? have you ruled them out ? Are there any blown fuses ?

No 1st or 4th available but the trans shifts from 2nd to 3rd by itself in D or OD and locks the converter would point to a failed shiftA (1-2) solenoid (fairly easy fix) or a wiring problem from PCM to trans. A faulty PCM could also cause it, but this is extremely unlikely. 4th gear is obtained using the 1-2 and 2-3 solenoids as well:

Solenoid> 1-2 2-3
V Gear V
......1...... ON ON
......2...... OFF ON
......3...... OFF OFF
......4...... ON OFF

However, if the trans loses electrical power or the PCM deactivates all of the electronics the transmission defaults to "limp home" mode. The trans defaults to max line pressure, 3rd gear with manual 2nd and Reverse available using the gearshift (2 or L). 1st, 4th, and TCC lockup are not available. It will not hurt the car to drive it like this, but use manual 2nd to get the car moving, and be aware that the trans will generate more heat than normal while operating in limp-home mode due to increased torque converter slippage during 2nd gear starts and no lockup in 3rd gear.


I'd start with the simple stuff. Locate the trans electrical plug. See if it is damaged, corroded, or hell even unplugged if they swapped the engine/trans together. I guess I could go look in the more recent FSM, but OBD1 trans code 81 (2-3 solenoid) does NOT turn on the MIL but will be stored in memory so it is possible you aren't illuminating the MIL, however there should be a stored code.

NOTE: welcome to the forum. Create a signature block with your year & trim. When posting a technical question, always post the pertinent info such as mileage, prior service history if available, and detailed symptoms. etc. That way we aren't left to guess.

I could never locate any fuses related to the trans?? The car is a 97 so its OBDII, I purchased it for $500 With 103K . I know nothing of the prior maintenance history but i bought it from a =/ female the shop i picked it up from told me something related to a solenoid. It does not slip or jerk the trans does make a whining similar to a power steering pump, the fluid was oil black and smelled burnt i replaced the filter n fluid today. There was no magnet in the pan?? So i cut the filter open to find all type of black material ran a magnet through it and nothing stuck. Took the car for a ride i seem to have first gear back upon take off then the abs and trac light came on then it seemed as if i was starting in second.Reset it,Shifted it manually tacked it out n first it went into 2nd then 3rd On the freeway i saw no drop in rpms so i dont think the converter locked up. Still no 4th/OD

This is one of those extremely rare instances where a chemical based full flush with one of those machines may actually assist. Worst case if it doesn't work is that you need to rebuild or replace the trans. With fluid looking like that, another change may help, but a true flush may be needed to bring it back to life, if that's possible.

deekster_caddy wrote:

This is one of those extremely rare instances where a chemical based full flush with one of those machines may actually assist. Worst case if it doesn't work is that you need to rebuild or replace the trans. With fluid looking like that, another change may help, but a true flush may be needed to bring it back to life, if that's possible.

sounds like band material in the sump and filter. goodluck with the flush.

albertj wrote:

deekster_caddy wrote:

This is one of those extremely rare instances where a chemical based full flush with one of those machines may actually assist. Worst case if it doesn't work is that you need to rebuild or replace the trans. With fluid looking like that, another change may help, but a true flush may be needed to bring it back to life, if that's possible.

sounds like band material in the sump and filter. goodluck with the flush.

I would tend to agree. But flushing it all out may get it rolling for a few more miles.

Haven't got a flush decided to drive the car a little, came up with code p0756 shift solenoid b ckt performance or stuck off???

No surprise, the pressure solenoids are very sensitive to foreign objects and I would assume the shift solenoids are no less sensitive. I wouldn't drive it until you have clean fluid in there. And even still there is no guarantee you are going to have it functional without tearing it apart. What you described as the old fluid is pretty harsh.

So flush and replace shift solenoids?

SuperRivL67 wrote:

So flush and replace shift solenoids?

...at least flush. RE the solenoids, depends on if you can suss out why the fluid became so foul in the first place. Might be easier if you can borrow a Tech II for testing after you flush the trans and replace filter etc. I'd want someone on the flush machine who really knew what he or she was doing... if you search this site you'll find comments (mine and others) on issues with and suggestions for effective flush protocol.

Albertj

The solenoids are not easily accessible. So I would recommend flushing first, this may clear up your solenoid issues, may not. You know the worst case scenario is a full rebuild. Like Albert said, you need the flush done right, with the right system and the right operator.

deekster_caddy wrote:

The solenoids are not easily accessible. So I would recommend flushing first, this may clear up your solenoid issues, may not. You know the worst case scenario is a full rebuild. Like Albert said, you need the flush done right, with the right system and the right operator.

Yeah my stupid uninformed guess is the transmission has a ton of clutch mud as a result of prior owner putting in some sort of additive that swelled the seals and attacked the frictions. The additive probably "smoothed out" a transmission that did not really have a problem in the first place by slowing friction engagement and thereby accelerating wear & tear.

Just a guess. I could be full of it.

Albertj

Just an update, flush did not solve the issue. Drove the car more and upon the trans getting warm I loose all gears but 3rd

SuperRivL67 wrote:

Just an update, flush did not solve the issue. Drove the car more and upon the trans getting warm I loose all gears but 3rd

might take more than one flush

OTOH might require a rebuild

kinda curious though - having all the gears cold then losing all but one gear warm sounds like a 'limp' mode which might not be a mechanical problem.

I guess the question is what's your time worth? You might want to see what a used transmission from say Ed Morad would run shipped to you. Another $500 for the installation and you kind of have one answer as to how deep the money pit is.

I found a used trans with 93k for around 330. The installation I can handle myself, I time-serted my northstar so the Riv should be a piece of cake. I already bought a shift solenoid but haven't installed it yet. If I clear the code and drive it, once the Ses light comes on is when I get only 3rd so limp mode is probably correct. Just didn't want to waste money swapping the trans if the problem is just a solenoid.

SuperRivL67 wrote:

I found a used trans with 93k for around 330. The installation I can handle myself, I time-serted my northstar so the Riv should be a piece of cake. I already bought a shift solenoid but haven't installed it yet. If I clear the code and drive it, once the Ses light comes on is when I get only 3rd so limp mode is probably correct. Just didn't want to waste money swapping the trans if the problem is just a solenoid.

I have not reviewed the TSBs for the 4T transmissions, but you might want to just in case there's something documented already that we are just missing.

You know, you *might* want to double check the wires in the harness to the transmission. I wonder if the line to the tranny is wack. Also, IIRC these transmissions get B+ voltage thru the ignition switch. I kinda wonder if your ig switch is failing due to age (they all eventually do I am on my 2nd) and needs to be replaced.

So yeah I think you are onto something with that solenoid but if I were you I'd put an hour in checking wiring and connectors if I had not already.

Albertj

its been awhile but... my local pick n pull is having a everything 50% off sale, and had a 98 riviera in stock. i went out and pulled the trans its pretty dirty but the trans fluid was still red and is not burnt. Paid 75.61 for it just wondering if it will fit my 97 before i get ready to do the swap