Hey, I found a VERY interesting 3800 dyno graph

He used this car. a 1998 Firebird.

Quote :

Modifications-
Engine:
Abbott Racing Engine's built 3.8L
Abbott Racing Heads "Big Valve Heads" and Ported Intake
Angle milled heads, 50.6cc Chambers
ARH Ported Throttle Body
SI 1.86 Intake Valves
SI 1.55 Exhaust Valves
T&D Machine 1.7 Ratio Shaft Mount Rockers
Custom Comp Cam
Manley 150# Beehive Springs
Comp 772 Titanium Retainers
Comp OE-R lifters
Comp High-Tech Pushrods
Custom 3.819" CP Flat Top Forged Pistons, 11.9:1 CR
CP Ring Set w/Steel Top Ring
Rollmaster Double Roller Timing Chain
Removed Balance Shaft
ARP Head Studs
ARP Rod Bolts
Cometic MLS .051" Head Gaskets
160* Thermostat
24lb Injectors
Speed Density tuned by me with HP Tuners and an Innovate LC1 Wideband
Induction:

RK Sport lid
K&N Air Filter
Home made CAI
Exhaust:

Custom Long-Tube Headers, stepped 1.5"-1.625" primaries, 2 1/4" collector
Drivetrain:

Moser 12 bolt, 33 spline axles
Motive 4.56
Moser Full Spool
Shortened Steel DS with 1350 series U-joint
Swapped 4L60E Automatic Transmission
TCI Competition Converter 4000 Stall
Suspension:

BMR Trac-pack
Edelbrock Tubular Subframe Connectors
Edelbrock Adjustable Panhard Rod
Energy Suspension Tranny Mount
Energy Suspension Polyurethane LCA Bushings
Boxed Stock LCA's
Spohn LCA Relocation Brackets
Appearance:

Removed Door Emblems
Silver Bird Stickers on pillar
Wheels and Tires:

15x3.5" Mickey Thompson ET Drag Wheels
165r/15 Radials
15x8" Mickey Thompson ET Drag Wheels
26x8.5" ET Drags

Here's his timeslip :3

his engine is NATURALLY ASPIRATED. I really like these results to be honest, but his pistons are forged special pistons with almost 12:1 compression ratio :o

Somehow this car only weighs 3400 pounds! I'm actually starting to want one lol.

anyway, how much do you think it would cost to do all that to the 3800 series II engine?

and assuming I keep my CR to 9.4:1, I could make even more power with an Eaton m90 supercharger I find in a junkyard, but keeping my pistons, would I still get more power than torque? cause I would LOVE to have high RPM power output like that out of my engine

To get equivalent power, you wouldn't need to do nearly as much to a SC 3800, because the stock blower replaces the need for most of it. But if you did do all of that, AND kept forced induction, the engine would be making some serious power, similar to the INTENSE Racing SSEi "Eightball", which made 466 crank HP:

http://www.intense-racing.com/8ball.shtml

They made 338WHP retaining the stock exhaust. Adding heads and 3" exhaust, the car made 373WHP. You can clearly see what the supercharger adds - about 100 extra HP. While it's good to shift as much torque as you can into the upper RPM band, it's not to say that loosing your torque down low is a good idea. Make your engine breath, and increase the RPM - the supercharger keeps the torque flat across the band.

Thanks for the wise words man. You've really helped me learn more about the engine. I appriciate it very much

I read somewhere that I don't need a huge alexhaust and its actually had to have a big exhaust. So basically for optimum power I'd want supercharger, weapon R intake [supposedly forces air in a bit faster] intercooler+ bigger injectors, new rockers, better can, high flow heads, headers, and assuming I have all that, is it possible to make anywhere close to 350 horses, with the higher CR of 9,4:1 assuming i eliminated CR?

It's bad (IMO) because it makes lots of noise, but with a supercharger you won't lose your low-end torque like a NA engine would. That's why they say don't go too big - bottom torque gets lost.

But the Riv's cat-back system will support lots of power, as the INTENSE SSEi demonstrates, up to 400 crank HP.

If you do all of those mods, 350 crank HP will happen easily, and 350 WHP is doable. Don't forget the engine will need tuning to make it all work. Find someone to tune the car. A dyno tune will get you the last bit of power.

Thanks man. Any idea on final costs for those mods?

Take a look at INTENSE and ZZP sites. Some of the basic stuff really isn't that much. If you want to build a supercharged L36, or use high-flowing L67 heads, it gets more expensive. I can't say exactly how much because I haven't gone that far. I settled for 300 HP and high 13s.

Good info from Aaron. Not to shoot down the idea of a modded NA 3800 but you might as well add some sort of FI to it. 3800 likes the boost.

he could have got a firbird 1Le and got simmilar results with few to no mods my TA with fluids and body kit NOS tank and a cast iron 6.0 blcok and fluids only weighted in at 3640 so i could see a firbird with interior still being 3200-3400

Well, I plan on getting the Eaton m90 off a junkyard, which should be super cheap unless I'm mistaken. From there I'll try building a custom weapon r type intake that is supposed to push air in a bit faster, probably go up pulley sizes to begin, do things to kill KR then get things like a more aggressive cam, new rockers, heads would be my last upgrade probably.

Btw, how much power can the 4T65e take?

c0reyl wrote:

Btw, how much power can the 4T65e take?

I would say LESS than you will throw at it. The breaking point will come earlier if you are able to Hook all that power up. I know the stock 4T65 does not like one wheel peels either.

LARRY70GS wrote:

c0reyl wrote:

Btw, how much power can the 4T65e take?

I would say LESS than you will throw at it. The breaking point will come earlier if you are able to Hook all that power up. I know the stock 4T65 does not like one wheel peels either.

Haha, so how do these guys make it handle 300+ horses? and nearly 400 ft lbs of torque?

It really depends on how you drive. It's not like every time you push the pedal you're getting 300 HP. Most of the time, mine uses less than 80. On the freeway it only uses about 30 HP. Every transmission wears out eventually. High heat and big torque speeds up the wear process, so the more of either you create on a regular basis, the shorter the life of the trans. You can take countermeasures against heat, like a trans cooler and changing fluid more frequently. Too much torque can break hard parts, so a trans rebuilt for racing might be the best thing. Or, your can build your horsepower increase less from low-end torque (boost), and more from breathing mods and increased torque in the RPM. Upper RPM power tasks the engine valvetrain more, and builds heat, but you won't snap parts in the transmission as easily.

Hmm, I'd like to increase higher RPM output as my main goal anyway. The 3800 series II has WAY more than enough torque as I saw that you can somehow tow 8,000 lbs with it. I actually posted a pic of you towing them bricks on my step dad's wall on his facebook, He just bought a towing company lol

For the record, that brick load was ignorant on my part. I wouldn't do that again if I'd known how heavy the load was. But you're right, the RIv did in fact pull that load, even if it wasn't a good idea for the trailer. Another way to know you have enough torque for your car is how easily you can break loose the tires from a stand still. In the Riv's case, that's pretty easy, even stock.

Haha, yeah. My step dad's supercharged Buick is really easy to do a burnout in, even on accident for me, cause I'm used to my NA engine, lol. But it is a lot more fun to drive than mine, even with only 40 more horsepower, for some reason, it just makes the car smoother to drive for me. No idea why.

The performance trans builds include things like hardened input and output shafts, stronger drive chains, increased hydraulic pressure (through PCM tuning), stuff like that. There's not a LOT you can do, and even the 9 second builds still blow up differentials etc. It's an expensive trans to build, but if you are going to make the big power and drive it hard, you better put some money into the trans.