Removing Rusty Bolts

Hey guys, I need some advice. I want to attempt loosening the dreaded bolt of all bolts: the dreaded rusty nuts holding the exhaust manifold on my old 455 engine. These are original and have been in place for 40+ years. Here's my plan of attack:

1. Pick away rust around each nut.

2. Apply PB Blaster to each nut 2 times per day for one week (once cool, once hot).

3. Fit 6-side box wrench around each nut, tap with hammer, apply more PB.

4. Apply heat to nut with propane torch. Apply more PB.

5. Fit 6-side socket to nut and apply torque in both directions.

Any other tricks you have to decrease the risk of breaking a stud? If I can get all the nuts off intact, I will be throwing a big party!

Thx,
AA

Best way to get those bolts off is with heat. Spray on that PB stuff ,wait, and get those bolts red hot.They should just loosen right up.

Aaron,
Sounds like a good plan, but they may break off anyway. Depending on where they break, will determine how much of a pain it will be. I can tell you this, there is nothing like an Oxyacetylene torch for doing the job. The best scenario if they break is if they break off at the bolt head. Then you can remove the manifold, and have something to grab onto with vice grips.

I just recently replaced the down pipe on my Riviera. Where it bolted to the catalytic converter, the studs and nuts were unrecognizable. Just nubs, that is all that was left. I took the car to a shop that the director of my local Buick club works at. We cut the nubs off, and separated the flanges. We heated the converter flange one corner at a time, put vice grips on the 1" of stud that remained, and they backed out easily, one at a time. We even had to use the torch on the engine side to get those nuts off. There was no way I could do that on my own without the oxyacetylene.

Depending on how rusty they are, you may be better off grinding off the bolt heads and removing the manifold. If they break off flush with the head, the head will have to come off. This is an engine in the car, right? Oldsmobile?

If PB doesn't work, get some Kroil. It works better on rusted fasteners than PB. Your plan sounds pretty good. Keep spraying them and apply some heat to them and hope for the best, but be prepared if one of them breaks. Good luck!

Yeah, it's for the Olds. The manifold gaskets need replaced. I haven't actually looked at the condition of the studs yet. The only saving grace is the fact this car is from Florida, and has been garaged for every winter it's been in Ohio. Hoping there will be something left to grip with a wrench or socket.

I'll take some pictures when I get a chance.

When I did my Riv's headers about 6 years ago, I had no trouble at all. It was a newer car, but driven every winter on Ohio salt. I used stainless header bolts to make sure they removed easily in the future. It turns out the future is now, as I will be removing the Riv's engine next week!

I've read the best penetrating oil is a 50/50 mix of acetone & transmission fluid. Can anyone testify this has worked for them?

The problem is the bolt shanks deteriorate from heat and age. I'm not sure it matters what penetrating oil you use. It only works if you can get it to where it needs to be, and that is the threads inside the head. Kinda hard for that to happen given the distance from the exhaust manifold outer surface and the head. That's why you may be better off grinding the heads off and removing the manifold, then hit it with penetrating oil, and heat.

Okay, I see. I may have to wait until the Riv is finished before I tackle this project. I want the Olds to be available to drive, and I don't want it to be very LOUD! Afraid if I tackle this job, it will need to be done all at once, and not as simple as just removing one side at a time and slipping new gaskets in there.

If the bolts are moderately accessible, a 50/50 mix of acetone and trans fluid is better than any other product like PB, liquid wrench and kroil.

Aaron, I must have missed something. Why do you have to pull the engine on the Riv?

pbrktrt wrote:

Aaron, I must have missed something. Why do you have to pull the engine on the Riv?

He hurt the motor racing the car. Might be a rod knock.

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t7642p60-riviera-racing-on-road-course

If you have and air hammer this is a must have tool. Works wonders when things get stuck/rusted.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=&item_ID=636880&group_ID=675907&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

Heat. Penetrating oil/PB Blaster is good for a rusty thread but nothing like making the nut glow orange. A small torch probably won't cut it.

And yeah, I'd have another ride available before you start this job.

Why do you want to replace them? Just a tick?

Yeah, a tick-tick that's been getting louder over the years. It's now more of a chif-chif. When the car was newer, you could hardly tell the engine was running. I want that smoothness back.

For confined areas there are specialty tools available that heat the bolt with a wire looped on one end and essentially a screwdriver style handle on the other. Used to use them alot in AG applications to avoid damage to hydraulic hoses etc. But they aren't cheap. Otherwise penetrating fluid (I use Rust Check) and some patience.

Hometown Hero wrote:

For confined areas there are specialty tools available that heat the bolt with a wire looped on one end and essentially a screwdriver style handle on the other. Used to use them alot in AG applications to avoid damage to hydraulic hoses etc. But they aren't cheap. Otherwise penetrating fluid (I use Rust Check) and some patience.

What needs to be done, is to heat the area around the bolt, so that it expands. That can't be done for all the bolts with the exhaust manifold in place. I can't tell you how many times I see that on V8Buick. When they break, the head of the bolt snaps off, or it breaks right at the head. At least one or two will break off usually. That's why sometimes it is just easier to grind the heads of the bolts off, remove the manifold, and then heat them one at a time and remove the bolt with locking pliers. When they break off in the head, the head has to come off.

Thanks for all the tips and ideas, guys. I know it'll be a job, but with the right tools, knowledge and some patience, I think I can make it work.

LARRY70GS wrote:

Hometown Hero wrote:

For confined areas there are specialty tools available that heat the bolt with a wire looped on one end and essentially a screwdriver style handle on the other. Used to use them alot in AG applications to avoid damage to hydraulic hoses etc. But they aren't cheap. Otherwise penetrating fluid (I use Rust Check) and some patience.

What needs to be done, is to heat the area around the bolt, so that it expands. That can't be done for all the bolts with the exhaust manifold in place. I can't tell you how many times I see that on V8Buick. When they break, the head of the bolt snaps off, or it breaks right at the head. At least one or two will break off usually. That's why sometimes it is just easier to grind the heads of the bolts off, remove the manifold, and then heat them one at a time and remove the bolt with locking pliers. When they break off in the head, the head has to come off.

This is the tool I was speaking of, they heat cherry red in seconds without flame or physical contact using electromagnetic induction heating:



I have used these, no shit... they do work. You don't have to heat the surrounding area when you can get the bolt to the point that it glows the heat will transfer on its own. they have different coil kits available for all applications. Trust me, if it comes down to using a torch or 1 of these, I'm gunna use 1 of these, and I'd be done faster, and without hassle.

I could see where that would come in handy.Having wrenched on the Riv for a few years now,I can think of a dozen or more places where that tool would not fit. In the video they make the Torch look so primitive! if you know what youre doing you can control the flame so as there is no spillage of the flame to surrounding areas. I cant remember one area I wasnt able to acces with a torch. The drawback to using gas is the cost of the kit and the gas.

Yes, but if you heat the bolt, it expands too. I can see the value of that tool, but not for exhaust manifold bolts. If you ground off the bolt heads, removed the manifold, and could heat the head area around the bolt, yes.

Hometown Hero wrote:

LARRY70GS wrote:

Hometown Hero wrote:

For confined areas there are specialty tools available that heat the bolt with a wire looped on one end and essentially a screwdriver style handle on the other. Used to use them alot in AG applications to avoid damage to hydraulic hoses etc. But they aren't cheap. Otherwise penetrating fluid (I use Rust Check) and some patience.

What needs to be done, is to heat the area around the bolt, so that it expands. That can't be done for all the bolts with the exhaust manifold in place. I can't tell you how many times I see that on V8Buick. When they break, the head of the bolt snaps off, or it breaks right at the head. At least one or two will break off usually. That's why sometimes it is just easier to grind the heads of the bolts off, remove the manifold, and then heat them one at a time and remove the bolt with locking pliers. When they break off in the head, the head has to come off.

This is the tool I was speaking of, they heat cherry red in seconds without flame or physical contact using electromagnetic induction heating:



I have used these, no shit... they do work. You don't have to heat the surrounding area when you can get the bolt to the point that it glows the heat will transfer on its own. they have different coil kits available for all applications. Trust me, if it comes down to using a torch or 1 of these, I'm gunna use 1 of these, and I'd be done faster, and without hassle.

Ya but $450 is a bit absurd for a shade tree mechanic!

Price out a good quality torch and get you oxy and acetylene filled, and tell me how obsurd it is.

Klix,
You do need to heat the surrounding area. Heat works because it expands the metal. Bolts seize. If you heat just the bolt, sure it will transfer heat to the surrounding area, but the bolt will expand more because it will be hotter. That might make things worse. With a torch, you can heat the surrounding area red hot, but the bolt will be cooler. They come right out that way. It might work if you could heat the base of the bolt where it goes into the head. You can't do that with the exhaust manifold in the way. That's why I say grind the bolt head off, and remove the manifold so that you can get right in there. That's a nice tool to have, but I don't think it would work unless you removed the manifold first.

that looks awfully unweildy to be used for little manifold bolts though??

robotennis61 wrote:

that looks awfully unweildy to be used for little manifold bolts though??

Not sure you could even fit in there between the exhaust manifold and fender

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this thread about "Removing Rusty Bolts"? I understand the tool may not be an exact perefect fit for this manifold job. I get your method with removing the manifolds, I have also done things similar with torch. I work everyday as a mechanic (not a shade tree either) and have used that tool on alot of applications from cars up to a $400000 Case 9120 Combine. I know this tool works I've actually used it, have you? May not be ideal for the manifold job, but IT WILL REMOVE RUSTY BOLTS end of story. Not trying to start WWIII here just saying this thing is fast, effortless and it works period.