Name : Tyler Age : 33 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:19 pm
wait what? so i cant splice the 1 amp diode inline before the alternator to boost voltage?
Rickw Guru
Name : Rick Location : Lancaster, MA Joined : 2008-09-13Post Count : 6282 Merit : 119
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:14 pm
Yes you can. I haven't done it, but from the write ups, many others have.
97 park ave Addict
Name : Tyler Age : 33 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:56 pm
okay so is the question deekster was asking something completely different then?
Rickw Guru
Name : Rick Location : Lancaster, MA Joined : 2008-09-13Post Count : 6282 Merit : 119
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:23 pm
97 park ave wrote:
okay so is the question deekster was asking something completely different then?
What question.? You've got me totally confused as to what your asking. In the above post I mentioned there were two different things being discussed. 1. The diode install for a boost in idle voltage. ( you have read the articles and write ups on that) 2. Replacement of or installation of an additional capacitor/condenser to stop alternator whine thru the radio That's it.
97 park ave Addict
Name : Tyler Age : 33 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:09 am
Rickw wrote:
97 park ave wrote:
okay so is the question deekster was asking something completely different then?
What question.? You've got me totally confused as to what your asking. In the above post I mentioned there were two different things being discussed. 1. The diode install for a boost in idle voltage. ( you have read the articles and write ups on that) 2. Replacement of or installation of an additional capacitor/condenser to stop alternator whine thru the radio That's it.
yes i asked about the diode for boosting voltage deekster asked another question and i wasnt sure if you guys were still talking about my question or if this was a completely different part sorry for the confusion i was also confused when it went from talking about a diode to a capacitor
deekster_caddy Master
Name : Derek Age : 52 Location : Reading, MA Joined : 2007-01-31Post Count : 7717 Merit : 109
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:42 pm
So recently I rebuilt my alternator using new bearings, brushes and a heavy duty bridge rectifier from alternatorparts.com. I still have issues with low voltage when my accessories are on (heater on high, rear defrost, lights) and I'm at idle. The alternator doesn't get up to full voltage until 2000 RPM. Unfortunately most of my ride is at 12-1500 RPMs, so I am generally around 13 volts when everything is on. When I'm stopped voltage drops to about 12 and even into the 11s. That's too low for my preference, so I have been looking at ways to solve it.
More to come soon.
deekster_caddy Master
Name : Derek Age : 52 Location : Reading, MA Joined : 2007-01-31Post Count : 7717 Merit : 109
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:59 pm
Here's a picture of the HD voltage regulator after I put it in the case, along with the new rear bearing:
deekster_caddy Master
Name : Derek Age : 52 Location : Reading, MA Joined : 2007-01-31Post Count : 7717 Merit : 109
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:02 pm
Here are the videos from alternatorparts.com - he replaces the bridge rectifier in a CS144 alt, the same kind the Riv has.
Part 1:
Part 2:
Last edited by deekster_caddy on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
deekster_caddy Master
Name : Derek Age : 52 Location : Reading, MA Joined : 2007-01-31Post Count : 7717 Merit : 109
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:07 pm
One thing he does not mention is replacing the bearings. I have an arbor press, and the rear bearing pressed out and the new one in pretty easily. The front case/rotor bearing was not so straightforward. The bearing was inside a hardened ring that had a retaining edge on the inside of the bearing. The edges of it broke off when I pressed the old bearing out. It's really hard to describe, and I didn't take pictures. I decided the front bearing would still be okay, there's no way for it to walk out of the housing, plus I put a little locktite on the outside edge of the new bearing so it should stay in place.
Otherwise the 'rebuild' was as simple as it looks in the videos.
deekster_caddy Master
Name : Derek Age : 52 Location : Reading, MA Joined : 2007-01-31Post Count : 7717 Merit : 109
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:11 pm
So I still have low voltage at idle. One change I made last week was to alter the low rpm cutout settings in the PCM with my powertuner. It didn't change anything, so I think it's still trying to achieve voltage.
My next step is to add the 'sense' wire from a direct + battery source. I will try running a wire from the battery cable to the 4th position on the voltage regulator plug. I'm not sure exactly what I'm doing there yet, I have some instructions to follow and I'll take pictures along the way!
Another suggestion was to install an overdrive pulley. Stock pulley size on mine was 62 mm across. My replacement pulley is 54 mm, so I should see adequate voltage at 1500 RPM and much improved supply at idle. I was planning to put in the OD pulley anyhow, but I'll do this last to see if these other remedies accomplish anything.
Mr.Riviera Expert
Name : Matthew Age : 38 Location : Florida Joined : 2007-01-17Post Count : 4394 Merit : 101
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:46 pm
you posted part one for both video's but his tutorial is pretty informative. I may decide to do mine, just for assurace. how much did all the parts cost you? and do you have to do the bearing too? i dont have a press.
_________________ 1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
deekster_caddy Master
Name : Derek Age : 52 Location : Reading, MA Joined : 2007-01-31Post Count : 7717 Merit : 109
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:47 pm
I am not positive I needed the bearing but with 140K on it I replaced it due to my nature of improve it while it's apart... I think it cost $85 total.
(fixed the part 2 video link, thanks for pointing that out )
rk0ehn Enthusiast
Name : Christian Rolf Köhn Age : 34 Location : CD Juarez, MX Joined : 2011-08-11Post Count : 148 Merit : 14
According to rockauto, the 96 has the 140amp alt and the 1999 has a 125amp alt. Shows the same part # for S/C and N/A May explain why i am still on the original alternator after 180k miles.
How many amps do you plan on running where you would need 270 amps?
_________________ 1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
albertj Master
Name : Location : Finger Lakes of New York State Joined : 2007-05-31Post Count : 8685 Merit : 181
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:07 am
rk0ehn wrote:
I know this is an old thread but it has to do with high output alternator.
Will a high amp alternator that is for the 1999 fit on a 1996?
Is there a difference on the N/A alternator to the S/C alternator? because on the website doesn't specify the L67 or L36 engine?
I'm looking for this one: 270 Amp SP High Output Alternator for 1999 Buick Riviera 3.8L V6 priced at: $449.95
'96 thru '98 used a 140 A alt.
If you know what you are doing you can use any number of GM alternators on the Riv, you just have to "reclock" them (split the case halves and realign them for diff cars - easy to do).
I think the '99 Riv used same alt as the Bonneville '00 - '03 but you had to reclock it too or some darn thing to go from one to the other -- I don't remember maybe they fit OK straight.
The 270 amp is here: https://www.dcpowerinc.com/8244-270-xp.html
There is a 320 amp version cheaper, you have to use the look-up function on the site though.
If you're gonna buy it you better need it - the more power the alt generates, the more drag it is on the engine. It's a sure way to reduce the power to the wheels, although that may not matter to you...
.
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:10 am
Quote :
If you're gonna buy it you better need it - the more power the alt generates, the more drag it is on the engine. It's a sure way to reduce the power to the wheels, although that may not matter to you...
I'm not sure if this is true. In theory, An alternator should not draw any load on the engine if there is no electrical demand. This is true of a 30A or a 300A unit, it should make no difference. Only when the unit is asked for amperes does the load increase. For example, if you were hand cranking a generator, with no power being used, the load would be freewheeling, but start using the circuit to drive several devices, and the torque needed to crank goes up. This is why extreme fuel savers turn off their head lamps at night to save that very last ounce of gas.
If you're gonna buy it you better need it - the more power the alt generates, the more drag it is on the engine. It's a sure way to reduce the power to the wheels, although that may not matter to you...
I'm not sure if this is true. In theory, An alternator should not draw any load on the engine if there is no electrical demand. This is true of a 30A or a 300A unit, it should make no difference. Only when the unit is asked for amperes does the load increase. For example, if you were hand cranking a generator, with no power being used, the load would be freewheeling, but start using the circuit to drive several devices, and the torque needed to crank goes up. This is why extreme fuel savers turn off their head lamps at night to save that very last ounce of gas.
Yes, you're right, and it still obtains that the more power it generates the more power it uses. thing is, what are we doing that will consume that much power?!?!? that's where the horsies are going.
AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:12 am
The only likely reason to need that kind of amperage is to power a large stereo system, the type used for SPL contests. Keep in mind that our engines have enough power to easily support very large electrical demands, as long as the battery is in good shape to act as a buffer, while the system catches up. Sometimes two or more batteries can be used to provide a larger buffer.
If we calculate the needed power to supply actual amperage used, factoring in a 15% parasitic loss, we get about ~ 47 amperes per 1 HP @ 14.5 v. Therefore a 320A unit could demand as much as 6.8 HP maximum on its own, when the electrical system is at its highest demand. That doesn't sound like much, but at idle the engine might struggle to keep up - if audio systems pulled a constant draw, which they normally don't.
Music is dynamic in nature, and rarely is the volume turned to the max setting on a system of such high power, so the amplifiers would likely never reach their max amp draw for more than a few milliseconds. This lets the battery take the load, and the alternator catches up between events. The only way you could overload the system is by playing specific test tones for extended times, pushing near the maximum amp draw. In that case, you would simply wire more batteries in parallel to handle the load. A large enough alternator will certainly be able to handle charging duties after the power draw has concluded. Vehicles exist with 75,000W audio systems, using 100+ HP just to power the audio system. These vehicles typically contain dozens of batteries, and multiple alternators. The curb weight of such a vehicle (usually a full-size truck) can be doubled in the process.
Yeah... I’m planning on installing a competition sound system, but because most of the time I'll run my system with the engine on, the alternator will be the only one running the system, and if the system draws more amps than what the alternator can produce, the battery will suffer and be discharged slowly to the point that the alternator will not be able to recharge it and the car will not crank, and multiple batteries can help but not for a long time because the alternator will need to recharge them taking longer because the alternator cannot produce enough output.
About re-clocking them... how do you do that?
Thanks.
albertj Master
Name : Location : Finger Lakes of New York State Joined : 2007-05-31Post Count : 8685 Merit : 181
Subject: Re: high output alternator? Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:03 am
rk0ehn wrote:
Yeah... I’m planning on installing a competition sound system, but because most of the time I'll run my system with the engine on, the alternator will be the only one running the system, and if the system draws more amps than what the alternator can produce, the battery will suffer and be discharged slowly to the point that the alternator will not be able to recharge it and the car will not crank, and multiple batteries can help but not for a long time because the alternator will need to recharge them taking longer because the alternator cannot produce enough output.
About re-clocking them... how do you do that?
Thanks.
reclock just means take the case halves apart and re-bolt after turning one half of case 1/4 turn or more different.