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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:32 am

I watched a couple of the video's on the Webasto unit.
Well, I have emailed the US manufacturer of the Webasto units for more information.
Their website cater's to the Diesel Truck market and they also make aftermarket sunroofs for autos and they are big in the Marine industry with A/C units and heaters.
Very little info on car heaters and the re-seller and installer list for my state doesn't list anyone selling or installing the car heaters.
Will wait for there response and see what they have to say.
It seems they are very common in Europe but not here yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:37 am

That alarm has 3 aux. outputs to control anything electrical. The seat heaters and the rear defroster would be easy enough to do. Just a couple of relays and some extra labor. The windshield defroster can be done by you......before you get out of the car set the climate control to defrost.....then latter when you activate your remote start it will turn on your climate controls which are already set to defrost.

I am installing the viper 5601 myself.
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:07 am

I think a lot of the electrical problems that have been reported by individuals with the Riv and a Remote Start or Aftermarket Alarm System could be attributed to two things:
#1 Poor quality components
#2 Inexperienced or just plain lousy installation.

I think a good installer, that understands the wiring of a Riviera, can make a huge difference in the outcome.
So if you are having it installed by a shop, try and be sure that they are knowledgeable, if that is at all possible.
Every one of them will say they can do it, but can they do it right with the cars existing alarm system and the PassKey resistor in the ignition circuit.

If you have the FSM for the car, I would bring the wiring diagrams with you for them to reference.
If they can read, it might help.
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sqrivi
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:23 pm

agree
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:41 pm

Installation quality is probably the most important factor in remote starts and their longevity. Find someone who has a lot of experience and the proper manuals to do the job. My remote start fires the motor and HVAC system, but not the accessories until you turn the key.

It does have one issue that you cannot lock the doors with any of the factory buttons (doors or OEM keyfob), or it will activate the factory security system and the factory alarm will go off if you remote start or unlock with the remote starter's unlock. So I warn everyone who uses my car to only lock the doors with the remote starter's lock button, never push the button on the door. I took the OEM keyfob and stashed it in the center console in case someone forgets and needs to silence the factory alarm.

I discussed this issue with my (experienced) installer. He said it was the only way without totally disabling the factory system. I like it this way because if I want to I can activate the factory alarm system as long as I bring my OEM keyfob with me.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:49 pm

same problem on my car after installing aftermarket car alarm.
can lock the doors ONLY using the keyfob. if someone lock from the doors buttons then the cars factory alarm goes on. and cos i don't ahve a working factory keyfob i need to take the battery cabel off to get the factory one turned off again.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:57 pm

Snowdog wrote:
same problem on my car after installing aftermarket car alarm.
can lock the doors ONLY using the keyfob. if someone lock from the doors buttons then the cars factory alarm goes on. and cos i don't ahve a working factory keyfob i need to take the battery cabel off to get the factory one turned off again.

Timo, unless the aftermarket wiring has messed it up somehow, the alarm can be silenced by either unlocking the driver's door with the key, or turning the ignition on.

Also, how large is that Webasto?
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:22 pm

GMFreak8 wrote:
I'm getting a Viper 5301 remote start system installed Monday. I gotta ask monday if it's possible for it to control the rear defroster and the heated seats, and windshield defroster.

To have the front defroster work, you just have to set the ECC to your desired mode before you leave the vehicle.

I took a quick look at the Viper website, and it looks like it can run a couple of extra relays during the time that it runs the engine. The manual specifically mentions the rear defogger... It would be suicide to try to mess with the electronics, so I'm sure they are simply tapping in their own 12V after the ECC head, directly to the rear window's wiring. I suppose, therefore, that you could do the same with the wires for the seat heaters, downstream of the module.

However, without the module in the circuit, there is a chance the elements could overheat. According to the schematic, there is no limit-thermistor in the heater circuits, just the one thermistor that the module used to control the low and hi temperature settings. If the Viper can control a momentary ground output, or a momentary 12V that can run a relay that grounds when triggered, you could then tie it into the light blue wire on the Heated Seat Module, and it would turn the system on to Hi, just like pressing & releasing the button on the door...
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sqrivi
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:44 pm

The viper alarm should be able to interface with the factory alarm. There is a factory alarm DISARM wire in the drivers door boot (light green if memory serves) that the viper alarm triggers when it is disarmed. This will disarm both the viper and the factory alarms. The viper alarm has a "factory alarm disarm" wire.....light green/black. The viper alarm also has a rear defroster output wire.....blue/white.
There should not be any problems getting the viper to work with the riviera. Like everyone has said make sure the installers know what they are doing.
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1998 Riv
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:43 pm

Snowdog wrote:
if you'r point on installing it is to warm up the car?

Then you could better install a remote webasto.



Price is the big diff. A remote starter is only a couple hundred, give or take a hundred.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:49 pm

Yes, I haven't received a return e-mail from Webasto-US yet, but I have a feeling the reason they aren't popular here in the USA is the price and the install.
US driver's are still not too concerned about the price of fuel here.
Except for the long haul trucker's.
And that market is being served by Webasto as well as the boating industry. They have a bunch of money to spend on average.
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96RIVMANN
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:23 pm

I installed a Auto Page RS1000 myself in my Riv last year with no problems. I by passed the VATS with a 10 cent resistor. Took me about 6 hrs total and it works great.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:41 am

6 HOURS??? Was it really worth your time to do it yourself? I sure as heck don't have that kind of time available.
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GMFreak8
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:01 pm

I got the car back after 4 hours and $200. The guy said it wasn't the easiest job, but wasn't too bad. He did say that the rear defroster and heated seats wouldn't be a good idea. If it was to be done there would be potential for overheating because the only way to do it would be to essentially hotwire it, bypassing all the safegaurds. So I just told him to not bother with it.

So far so good on the remote start though. This guy costs a little, but he's great at what he does. The door unlock and lock function perfectly as does the alarm system. I had him add an extra relay in for the antigrind feature too, which ironically enough isn't standard on a $400 remote start system (luckily I get it at a 1/4 of the price). I do love the fact that I can tell the temperature inside the car from my remote, so it's worth the extra cash for a two way system.

The only difference between the factory lock and unlock function is the response the vehicle gives when you lock or unlock the vehicle. Instead of flashing the headlights and honking the viper system flashes the parking lights and honks the horn three times. I actually prefer that more. When you exit the vehicle at night and lock it, it doesn't temporarily turn the headlights off to confirm the lock, it just flashes the parking lights instead.


Last edited by GMFreak8 on Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rickw
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:06 pm

GMFreak8 wrote:
. I had him add an extra relay in for the antigrind feature too.
Haven't heard of that before.?????
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:09 pm

Rickw wrote:
GMFreak8 wrote:
. I had him add an extra relay in for the antigrind feature too.
Haven't heard of that before.?????

Apparently the viper system I got didn't include anti-grind circuitry. So when you get in the vehicle after you remote start it and turn the key to the run position, if you accidently turn it to the start position instead the starter would grind. In order to "activate" that feature of the starter system he had to install a relay that basically kills the "start" signal coming from the key when it's been remote started. Now I can turn the key to the start position after the car has been remote started and not worry about it grinding. It's just for an added piece of mind in my case.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:11 am

GMFreak8 wrote:

He did say that the rear defroster and heated seats wouldn't be a good idea. If it was to be done there would be potential for overheating because the only way to do it would be to essentially hotwire it, bypassing all the safegaurds...

I had him add an extra relay in for the antigrind feature too, which ironically enough isn't standard on a $400 remote start system...


As I said in my previous post, that could be an issue with the seat heaters, unless the Viper aux outputs could be set to momentary, then you could trigger the normal heater module function. There's no way I think it could hurt the rear window, though, unless you trigger it in the summer time... My old Grand Am just had a regular toggle switch for the rear defogger, no timer. I think they put the timer in to eliminate unnecessary load on the electrical system.

As far as the starter grinding, I find something even more ironic: In a car so full of clever ideas that the door latch handles have mini-floodlights and the power lock won't lock if the key is in the ignition, the computer will still let you grind the starter even when it is receiving an 800 RPM tach signal... crazy

DUH!!
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:42 pm

1998 Riv wrote:
6 HOURS??? Was it really worth your time to do it yourself? I sure as heck don't have that kind of time available.

Yes I do considering they wanted $600 for installing the unit at local shops. I bought mine off ebay and saved $450. He$$ yes it was worth it living here in MN.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:21 pm

Eldo wrote:
GMFreak8 wrote:

He did say that the rear defroster and heated seats wouldn't be a good idea. If it was to be done there would be potential for overheating because the only way to do it would be to essentially hotwire it, bypassing all the safegaurds...

I had him add an extra relay in for the antigrind feature too, which ironically enough isn't standard on a $400 remote start system...


As I said in my previous post, that could be an issue with the seat heaters, unless the Viper aux outputs could be set to momentary, then you could trigger the normal heater module function. There's no way I think it could hurt the rear window, though, unless you trigger it in the summer time... My old Grand Am just had a regular toggle switch for the rear defogger, no timer. I think they put the timer in to eliminate unnecessary load on the electrical system.

As far as the starter grinding, I find something even more ironic: In a car so full of clever ideas that the door latch handles have mini-floodlights and the power lock won't lock if the key is in the ignition, the computer will still let you grind the starter even when it is receiving an 800 RPM tach signal... crazy

DUH!!

I guess the real reason for not doing the rear window defogger was he couldn't find a power lead that would actually turn it on and off like it would through the HVAC controls.

Yeah, I agree about the starter. It's funny how these little things go unnoticed when engineering something.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:42 pm

Kyle,
How much did the Viper 5301 cost installed, if you don't mind me asking.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:45 pm

Rickw wrote:
Kyle,
How much did the Viper 5301 cost installed, if you don't mind me asking.

Altogether $350. That includes the $200 for labor, $100 for the remote start system itself (I found it on the Amazon marketplace for sale by someone who got it for a gift and didn't want it just the cash and sold it really cheap), and then $50 for the XK06 PASSKEY bypass module for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:58 pm

I hope it isn't too easy to install the PassKey bypass! nervous
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:03 pm

I've noticed that all the sellers and installers of remote starts or aftermarket alarms sell a by-pass module for XX dollars.
All it takes is a $1.00 resistor from Radio Shack.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:04 pm

Eldo wrote:
I hope it isn't too easy to install the PassKey bypass! nervous

No idea. It basically takes the resistance value of the resistor in the key and stores it to memory and emulates the resistance of the chip whenever you activate the remote start. You gotta put it into learning mode after you install the bypass and use the actual key in the ignition to start the car. It reads the value that gets passed to the security module and stores it for future use. It's basically a cleaner and less involved way of temporarily tricking the security system into allowing the car to start without using resistors and tapping into more wires. Also allows you to remove the remote start and put it in another vehicle without leaving behind as much of a mess.
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PostSubject: Re: Security Alarm & Remote Start Systems   Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:07 pm

Rickw wrote:
I've noticed that all the sellers and installers of remote starts or aftermarket alarms sell a by-pass module for XX dollars.
All it takes is a $1.00 resistor from Radio Shack.

Yeah it definitely could have been done with a resistors, but I wanted the cleanest most modular install possible so I could theoretically remove it a lot faster and install it in another car.

The newer security systems almost all require some sort of module to bypass it. No longer does a simple resistor work unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it).
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