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 Grinding noise, but good brake pads

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1998 Riv
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PostSubject: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:23 pm

Last couple of days my left front brake has started making scraping/grinding noises, and after work today I found time to pull the wheel off for an inspection. Expected to find minimal pad material left, but was surprised to see about 1/4" of pad still there, and the metal wear tab not even close to contacting the rotor yet. I rotated the hub manually to confirm the source of the scraping noise, definitely the brake pads on the rotor. Why would this come on so suddenly, and what might cause it? The rotors are not in great shape, but appear no worse than they did when I bought the car 1.5 yrs ago. Oddly though, to me, the brake pads have pretty significant rotor contact with the brakes not applied. I expected it to turn much more freely. The right side turns more easily by hand than the left, but also seems to have more rotor contact than it should when the brakes aren't being applied.

Before I have a shop inspect my brakes, any input and comments are welcome.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:31 pm

Exactly when does it grind? Only when you apply? Is it consistent, or off and on? Any evidence the pad was cracked or coming off its steel plate?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:33 pm

Noise occurs at all speeds, and changes a bit when braking. It gets worse as I brake harder while coming to a stop. I couldn't see any problems with the pad, as far as I could see.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:36 pm

My best guess is some debris flew up from the road and wedged between the pad and rotor. Could still be some in there. Did you see the inside surface of each pad?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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1998 Riv
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:48 pm

Nope, didn't inspect the pad surfaces.
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:34 pm

1998 Riv wrote:
Nope, didn't inspect the pad surfaces.
go into your street......... come to a stop.......... put in reverse........ get up to speed at 15 mph........ then Romp the brakes........... you could shoot some WD40 in there too before that to help out some................... grimace i did this on 2 cars now........ it worked so
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albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:36 am

sounds like you have one or two dragging calipers.

Albertj
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deekster_caddy
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:29 am

Sounds to me like the caliper isn't returning when you let off the brakes. How hard is it to slide the caliper back (compress the piston a bit)? You should be able to push the caliper over by hand.

You could also have rust/scale buildup on the rotor.
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Mr.Riviera
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:45 am

i would pull the pads off and inspect both of them for even wear. inner/outer and top to bottom. that can tell you if the caliper is sticking. does the right side seem to have about the same amount of wear on it?

_________________
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:42 pm

I've encountered this same thing and usually occurs around this time of year when road salt does'nt have enough moisture to dissolve, it will get picked up and either ground into a pad or sometimes will work it's way into the caliper piston bore area... if you have an air compressor try blowing the area out and a good power wash will hopefully dissolve any salt....if that's the problem...worth a try, good luck.
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Jack the R
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:30 pm

I had a scraping sound develop a couple days ago. My mechanic said it was because the dealer installed pads that were too hard for the rotors. He wanted to put on a softer pad and turn the rotors down, although he also told me it wouldn't harm anything to keep driving it.

I wanted to do the F-body brake mod, but the more I think about it, I'd rather keep this car stealthy, and the f-body brake mod would require bigger rims. So I may do what he suggested after all, or go with the Hawk brake pads and Summit cross-drilled/slotted rotors.
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:01 pm

Not going to have a chance to dig further into this for a while, but yes, it would seem the calipers are dragging. Not likely to be a road salt issue, not much of that stuff on our flat streets. And we're heading out of town for the weekend, so I can't work on it til next week. The pads on left and right appear to have been wearing pretty evenly, both sides about 1/4" of material left.

This is likely to be one of those deals where you pick your car "battles" to do yourself, or pay a shop. Since this is my DD, I'll probably end up taking it in while I go to work.
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:28 pm

wonder if the noise is the hub. Can't tell w/o removal.

Albertj
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:58 pm

Pretty sure it's not the hub. I manually turned it with the wheel off, and the scraping sound clearly came from the pad-to-rotor contact area.
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ibmoses
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:24 pm

Seems like I have heard of the rubber hose collapsing/deteriorating and causing the calipers to partially stick... no

Good Luck
You going to get to go to BG?

Bert tavis
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:29 pm

ibmoses wrote:
Seems like I have heard of the rubber hose collapsing/deteriorating and causing the calipers to partially stick... no

Good Luck
You going to get to go to BG?

Bert tavis

No, I can't ever go to BG, terrible time of the year for me for work. Planning on BPG in Columbus OH in Aug though.
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:32 pm

What about rotor rust/scale? Ridges?
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:04 am

Jack the R wrote:
I had a scraping sound develop a couple days ago. My mechanic said it was because the dealer installed pads that were too hard for the rotors. He wanted to put on a softer pad

Whaaaat? I don't think so. All of the different types of pads out there, metallic, ceramic, kevlar, jujubes (joker), whatever... will not be too hard for the rotor! They'd better be hard or your car wouldn't stop when you step on the pedal!! The 'hard' pads will just last longer and _may_ wear the rotors a little faster but will not make a scraping noise unless there is something dragging against the pad or rotor.
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:19 am

deekster_caddy wrote:
What about rotor rust/scale? Ridges?


The rotor surface is not good. A bit rough, and a ridge around the outside edge. Will have to see if it can be turned or is time for replacement. Maybe next week.
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:06 pm

deekster_caddy wrote:
Jack the R wrote:
I had a scraping sound develop a couple days ago. My mechanic said it was because the dealer installed pads that were too hard for the rotors. He wanted to put on a softer pad

Whaaaat? I don't think so. All of the different types of pads out there, metallic, ceramic, kevlar, jujubes (joker), whatever... will not be too hard for the rotor! They'd better be hard or your car wouldn't stop when you step on the pedal!! The 'hard' pads will just last longer and _may_ wear the rotors a little faster but will not make a scraping noise unless there is something dragging against the pad or rotor.

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately the only way for me to determine which of you is right is to throw you both into a river and see who floats.
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:40 pm

but first you have to tie bricks to their feet. then the one who floats is a witch. thats the one you must kill!

i have to agree with Derek on this one though. i dont think you could even find pads that would be that hard on rotors. especially if you/the mechanic installed OEM quality pads (ceramic).
now what could have happened, is the dealer installed semi metallic pads that were noisier than what you had before. or maybe you just need some stop squeak on the back of the pads to keep then from sliding on the piston/caliper housing.

_________________
1996 with 244k miles, L324" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs.
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:25 pm

A witch! A witch! Burn her!

Still need to see the undersides of those pads. Whatever the case, you're going to want new rotors and pads. How many miles do you think are on this set?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:19 pm

No idea whatsoever.
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:26 am

AA wrote:
A witch! A witch! Burn her!

Still need to see the undersides of those pads. Whatever the case, you're going to want new rotors and pads. How many miles do you think are on this set?

4-5k
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PostSubject: Re: Grinding noise, but good brake pads   Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:10 am

[quote="Jack the R"]
ewolfe0050 wrote:
F-body brake mod won't cause you to get a larger rim. The difference is that they are dual pot and aluminum. They might cover a little more rotor but they don't stick out or up any further.

Quote :
Did you stay with an 11" rotor? I didn't know that was an option.

Jack the R- '97+ all came with the 12" rotor. The earlier ones have the 11". That's the reason for the spindle change on the '95-'96.
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