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 FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune

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T Riley
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:14 pm

Intense-Racing has done well for me.. Maybe you have just had bad luck? or got a new guy?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:41 pm

I had no problem when I swapped out my old PCM for their new one. Everything was great and I did notice a difference. I've had nothing but good business with them. I wold talk to them again to see where things are at, instead of just waiting.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:12 am

Are Todd Allen or Scott Cook new guys there at intense????
Yeah I agree with the bad luck thing.
Not waiting nor mad enough for a road trip yet either.lol
We've each emailed them several times since the 22nd over this matter. Same story "will ship you another one if that doesn't work we'll refund your money" . First it was the day after he gave into maybe they didn't do all the y were supposed to to the PCM and the new one was on its way. Then it was going out Tuesday. Out of town,4th of july,etc.the moon wasn't aligned right with mercury,the east winds blew west,the sky is falling. I'm sure something important or tragic has come up and I'll get reimbursed for the trouble. Maybe a kewl sticker or some abc gum.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:06 am

I don't think VATS delete on a PCM will fix another problem you are having. I wasn't aware you could remove VATS, but it's not the way to fix a problem. Why isn't your car working? Probably not VATS. It's a pretty simple system.

I have dealt with Intense Racing for years. Scott Cook and Todd Allen have both been there for a long time.

Their performance PCMs are generally transmission related changes, you can't "tune" an engine for more performance without being connected to that engine. Transmission changes like shift pressure and shift time take a few driving days to become apparent. I don't know what you were expecting, but replacing the PCM probably won't fix your other problem .
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:10 pm

What other problem would it be other than VATS?
I've had plenty of days while waiting on the other PCM to arrive(june 18-july 6) for the changes to become apparent.
Again what problem am I having other than the security light is on car want start,wait til light goes out it starts. Is that not VATS?
Either way I'm done with them and will be sending their pcms back for a refund and looking for another company fo my v6 needs.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:40 pm

What PCM did you order? Riviera is a custom tune ($250+). If you just ordered their standard Series II PCM for W-Body, you may not feel the shifts because you have no way to activate Perf Shift.

FYI, when I installed DHP's standard 1.5 BIN program, I was not impressed. Only after I tuned for my mods, and activated Perf Shift by using the tuner was I able to see a true performance benefit. I don't see how the INTENSE PCM would be any different.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:43 pm

I'm not sure I understand your issue with them. As far as I can tell, you have ordered one product from them, that they did not reccomend to you, or even say that it would fix your problem. It looks to me that you decided that the PCM would fix whatever is wrong, and are for some reason not happy with Intense that it did not fix things? Sure maybe the PCM they sent you didn't have the VATS delete, but they are interacting with you and will even give you a refund if you want. and a couple of weeks for shipping, not too bad, sure you are 9 hours away, but shipping time is hardly Intense's problem. I order stuff from them to canada, patience is a virtue.

just IMO, its a bit narrow minded to base all your opinion off an item that you decided that you needed. Even IF the VATS truely wasn;t disabled, they are dealing in a civil way with you and offering refund.

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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:07 am

Well I'm certainly curious if another vendor's PCM fixes your problem. I didn't think you could fix a VATS problem in programming. Sounds to me like you need to fix your problem, not replace your PCM.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:16 pm

Karma wrote:
I'm not sure I understand your issue with them. As far as I can tell, you have ordered one product from them, that they did not reccomend to you, or even say that it would fix your problem. It looks to me that you decided that the PCM would fix whatever is wrong, and are for some reason not happy with Intense that it did not fix things? Sure maybe the PCM they sent you didn't have the VATS delete, but they are interacting with you and will even give you a refund if you want. and a couple of weeks for shipping, not too bad, sure you are 9 hours away, but shipping time is hardly Intense's problem. I order stuff from them to canada, patience is a virtue.

just IMO, its a bit narrow minded to base all your opinion off an item that you decided that you needed. Even IF the VATS truely wasn;t disabled, they are dealing in a civil way with you and offering refund.

The whole issue is that this company was picked for the quick turn around(2 days UPS air) The original purchase took 4 days to arrive than after talking to them to send an another PCM to try they replied it would go out next day. Well it was more like 2 weeks later not next day. As far as interacting,emails aren't answered promptly. The tracking # was never sent for the replacement pcm. There was never a mention of shipping reimbursement for the PCMs to be returned.
Deekster why are you so adamant that theres a problem with the car? Seems to me that vats is going bad and to just simply delete it out of the pcm data would be the fix. It's what we do with the F-bods.

And AA,On the intense website it states that if you are ordering it for a car that was not equipped with a perf shift button that they would make it part of the WOT. And the PCM for the riviera is on the website just go to the order form. I emailed them befor ordering to make sure and mentioned my mods and that I wanted vats delete. I was told just to do the normal order and check off the option for o2 sensor delete but under the comment box write vats delete instead of o2 sensors.
Sorry I posted a negative review about one of your vendors I thought that this was a free speech type forum. Apparently this is not the case here.
Again I apologize and will refrain from future postings
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AA
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:42 pm

Quote :
Sorry I posted a negative review about one of your vendors I thought that this was a free speech type forum. Apparently this is not the case here.
Again I apologize and will refrain from future postings
Wait a minute - there's really no need for that. No one said your posts were inappropriate. If that were the case, they would be deleted. Instead, the members and I have responded to your concerns with our own opinions of this vendor. Just because our experiences happen to be different from yours, why must you take a defensive posture?

There has been no censorship here. This is an open forum. But the nature of such requires that views and opinions of our membership will not always support your own. If this were a "feel good" forum where everyone just nodded in agreement, I don't think we would learn very much.

Getting back to the issue, you had a problem with INTENSE product that you ordered to solve what you think was your no-start problem. Did you ever consider that it might not be VATS related? If it is VATS, how do you know it's not a combination of problems? It's just hard to support 100% that this is all the fault of INTENSE. That's all we're trying to say.

With so many of us having good experience with INTENSE, could it be possible that, with exception to the delivery delays, they are not trying to screw you here?

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:49 pm

fuzzy wrote: Again I apologize and will refrain from future postings. whaaaaaHHHhh puzzled frown
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:45 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
Deekster why are you so adamant that theres a problem with the car? Seems to me that vats is going bad and to just simply delete it out of the pcm data would be the fix. It's what we do with the F-bods.

Fuzzy wrote:

...
No seat of the pants improvement at all,and to top it off VATS still is engaged and still causing no starts frown . It does do the 6,000 rpm shifts a WOT other than that I can't tell any differences in shift firmness,performance,etc. We emailed them to let them know that they forgot to delete the vats that night. They replied that they did it that it was a mechanical problem on my end like starter failure,etc. NOT... After explaining to them that the security light is on when it won't start and that when it goes out it cranks fine they promise to send another PCM. Well it's now July 3rd and no PCM. IMO Intense racing just SUCKS

your use of "still" implies that this was a problem before you ordered your PCM. You don't know why the security light is on and you have no starts - maybe it's a bad ignition switch? Another part? It happens. Will a "vats delete" fix your problem? If it's vats, maybe, but just because your security light is on does that mean it's something a vats delete will fix? This is not an F body. Maybe things are different here. Tough to blame PCM programming for occasional no starts, the PCM either works or it doesn't, and if the guys from Intense say they did it, I would believe them.

You can bash vendors all you want, we all want to know about issues with any vendor. No excuses to Intense on the timing of things, unless they informed you otherwise. It is summer, many places close for a week of vacation etc. Customer service is customer service. People have had good and bad experiences from all the 3800 vendors that I know of. Lack of communication is the primary issue from all of them.

So get somebody else's PCM. I'm guessing you are still going to have the same problem. FYI transmission pressure and shift timing changes take a few driving days to become effective, the PCM needs to 'learn' how the shift speeds are happening. There really isn't any engine pre-tuning any vendor can do, so I wouldn't expect any big performance gains besides the transmission shifting.

I'm not trying to tell you if they are good or bad, but that you probably have another problem you should fix before blaming PCM programming. You said you had an occasional no-start problem before and after swapping PCMs. So why do you adamantly blame the PCM?

Fuzzy wrote:
What other problem would it be other than VATS?
I've had plenty of days while waiting on the other PCM to arrive(june 18-july 6) for the changes to become apparent.
Again what problem am I having other than the security light is on car want start,wait til light goes out it starts. Is that not VATS?
Either way I'm done with them and will be sending their pcms back for a refund and looking for another company fo my v6 needs.

That's a bit of an extreme response IMO. You should get an FSM and diagnose your problem. The troubleshooting pages are extremely thorough.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:30 pm

oh shoot, intense DOES have a pcm for our cars.. sweeeet

Not really a question...kinda. just saw that Intense racing does have pcm for our cars, got alittle excited. cuz i definietly want to put the 3.4, new plugs and down pipe on with my fwi and thermostat and be somewhat safe... i inquired about a local speed shop tuning my car on their dyno and they said...700 dollars.. eesh lol
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:39 pm

INTENSE has always offered a PCM tune for Riviera. It's considered a custom option, starts at $180 now, used to be higher. Also the check-the-box options can rack up at $20 a pop! I think there's an additional core until you return your old PCM.

Keep in mind a PCM tuned on a dyno can be WAY MORE custized to your specific car and gainful power-wise, compared to a shelf tune. The guy paying $700 is getting multiple tunes to find the most HP potential. The shelf tune really only covers the basics, gives you a good start, helps your engine support mods. When you need more tuning, you buy another PCM/tune.

If you really want control, tuning software makes the most sense, and is more cost effective in the end.

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'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:41 pm

Excellent point! Thank you
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:00 pm

I was probably the second person to buy Intense's Riviera PCM. Afterwards I ended up getting a tuner and doing the work myself. I have unlocked all '98 Rivieras in my HP tuners.

The 'off the shelf' tune is good until you start modding heavily, at which point a custom tune is the only way to go. With no amount of tuning could I run a 3.4 pulley KR-free until I put the 1.9 rockers in, except by removing so much timing it wasn't worth the pulley drop. Later swapped motors to one with a VS cam and now I am running quite safely a 3.2 pulley on a GenV blower.

I say there is no money better spent than buying your own tuner if you are going to start modding.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:33 pm

I've been wondering how far I can mod without tuning my setup. I have a feeling that after I do my exhaust I will need to change something in the PCM. I guess the tuning set up will be my next buy.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:59 pm

You will know how far you can go by watching KR on your Torque app. You've already seen how boost increases KR. You can do more and see if KR goes up or down (breathing mods lower KR). In theory there's no downside to modding without a tune as long as you keep knock in check. Although possible, a good tune makes modding a lot easier as you do more and more, like deekster said.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:15 pm

AA wrote:
In theory there's no downside to modding without a tune as long as you keep knock in check.

That's what I wanted to hear! tavis Thank you!
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:44 pm

You WILL reach a point, probably sooner than later, where there's no where else to go but a tune.

_________________
'98 SC Riviera 268k miles 298 HP/370 TQ 0-60: 5.79s ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 4087 lb 20.1 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley AL104 plugs 180 t-stat FWI w/K&N 1.9:1 rockers OR pushrods LS6 valve springs SLP headers ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts MaxAir shocks Addco sway bars UMI bushings GM STB Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus SS lines Brembo slotted discs DHP tuned Aeroforce Hidden Hitch


'05 GTO 49k miles 0-60: 4.8s 16.9 avg MPG Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26
Because fun
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:45 pm

I get minimal knock as it is with my 3.6". I expect that once I add the PLOG, crossover, and downpipe I will be knock free and back to ~6 psi of boost.
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:49 pm

installed my intense pcm, and shockingly, i didnt have to do the security procedure, it started right up. so i called chris from ontense to make sure i didnt do something wrong " normally they dont start on the first try, somehow you must have the same security code, now for a test drive
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:52 pm

highwaywarrior wrote:
installed my intense pcm, and shockingly, i didnt have to do the security procedure, it started right up. so i called chris from ontense to make sure i didnt do something wrong " normally they dont start on the first try, somehow you must have the same security code, now for a test drive

Mine was that way. They were surprised then too. What, 10 years ago maybe? Time passes...
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:24 pm

you did yours ten years ago?!? any problems?
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PostSubject: Re: FAQ: ZZP vs. INTENSE Powertrain Control Module (PCM)/Tune   Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:42 pm

highwaywarrior wrote:
you did yours ten years ago?!? any problems?

Nothing other than that it made me want my own tuner even more! wink
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