97 SC Engine swap

I have no idea, but if your "new" engine has the manifolds, see if they are stainless steel, if so just reuse them

moldymac wrote:

Heres something interesting. I went to the dealer to get GM exhaust manifold gaskets and they dont show any in the system for that car. Infact, I checked my alldata and it shows nothing between the headers and heads. Is this right?

Totally possible, I know Toyota and several other companies relied upon close machining tolerances for a seal when it came to exhaust manifolds and such.

Ok guys, im in the process of removing this engine. So far everything is going fine except for the 2 bolts on the flange going to the exhaust which refuse to budge. I got the belt off and noticed a good 1/8" of play in the SC pully, so that was one of the noises head when it was running. I did try it without the belt on, so that was not the knock. I drained the oil out and it looks like the LIM gaskets killed it, the oil is a milky brown color. Good to know what did it in, and I will definitely replace those gaskets on my "new" engine. Anyone have any suggestions for the easiest way to get to the backwards bolt on the tranny? Looks like a real PITA

Just use all the extensions you have, say 3/8" drive, over a foot to 2 feet long and you'll be able to reach the bolt with a socket and ratchet and get it out that way. This is for the bell-housing - pain in the butt bolt.
I'm not sure what exhaust bolts your talking about though.
But any exhaust bolts will need to be soaked in a good penetrating spray such as PB Blaster or Kroils penetrant.

The exhaust bolts - there are a couple of two-bolt flanges. The one in the way back, above the downpipe, off the rear manifold, those are shoulder bolts with springs that hold the flange tight to the gasket. The one that goes from the rear manifold to the crossover pipe was also a pain, that one has two nuts on the upper side that come off so the heat shield can be removed, so the 'real' bolt heads can be grabbed with something.

As to the monte exhaust manifold question earlier - the W-body vehicles had mostly the same exhaust manifolds as ours, except the rear. The rear manifold has the downpipe outlet shifted over about 2 inches. If you are talking about 'headers' and not manifolds, I am using the W-body headers in my Riv and had no problem getting the pipes connected together, but I did replace everything to behind the cat. (I used headers and an HF cat, but still have the stock resonator and cat-back).

I got the 2 bolts off, it was the one from the rear manifold to the down pipe. Soaked it in a combo of kroil and regular motor oil. Finally cracked both of them. So now its just the pain bolt and all should be good. Thanks!

Heres a question thats more of asking for our opinion. The engine I got (picking up today) is out of a 97 GP with 60k on it. I do want to replace the LIM to prevent this from happening again. Should I replace it while the engine is out and easy to access, or install it and make sure theres nothing wrong with before I put a gasket set in it? Maybe run it for a couple minutes with no coolant just so I can hear that theres no knock, and so I dont have to drain anything.

Opinions and others experience will vary wildly, its your call.

Another question (sorry, first time working on a SC 3800). I went to the dealer and they had 2 LIM gaskets listed, one with locating pins, the other without. They mentioned the one with orange end seals had the pins, if it had blue it did not. I have not seen this engine yet, and would like to order these seals before I rip into it. Can I visually see these gaskets without taking the engine apart?

I would be shopping for updated aluminum/rubber gaskets Not found at the dealership.

moldymac wrote:

Another question (sorry, first time working on a SC 3800). I went to the dealer and they had 2 LIM gaskets listed, one with locating pins, the other without. They mentioned the one with orange end seals had the pins, if it had blue it did not. I have not seen this engine yet, and would like to order these seals before I rip into it. Can I visually see these gaskets without taking the engine apart?

I would look up gaskets for a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (Supercharged 3800). These gaskets come in aluminum with rubber seals. I don't know about the color of the seals or locating pins, but I recently used these on a job and they are the way to go. Do not get plastic gaskets again...

Also, they are much cheaper if ordered from an online dealership, like monsterpartsonline.com.

deekster_caddy wrote:

moldymac wrote:

Another question (sorry, first time working on a SC 3800). I went to the dealer and they had 2 LIM gaskets listed, one with locating pins, the other without. They mentioned the one with orange end seals had the pins, if it had blue it did not. I have not seen this engine yet, and would like to order these seals before I rip into it. Can I visually see these gaskets without taking the engine apart?

I would look up gaskets for a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (Supercharged 3800). These gaskets come in aluminum with rubber seals. I don't know about the color of the seals or locating pins, but I recently used these on a job and they are the way to go. Do not get plastic gaskets again...

Also, they are much cheaper if ordered from an online dealership, like monsterpartsonline.com.

Are the felpro ones autozone sells the aluminum ones as well? The dealer by me wanted $75 for the ones with locating pins (they looked like they were aluminum)

Just finished the LIM job while the engine is out of the car. Its a damn good thing I did it on this engine, one of the gaskets was warped and cracked really bad. I'll take a pic tomorrow and post it. Looked pretty damn bad for something having only 60k on it. I ended up with a GM part. I tried to get a felpro from autozone for the 2004 grand prix gtp, and took a look at it and its friggin plastic! No sale. I sure hope this engine doesnt knock after seeing the gasket in that shape.

Was the oil milky? if not you are fine

moldymac wrote:

Are the felpro ones autozone sells the aluminum ones as well? The dealer by me wanted $75 for the ones with locating pins (they looked like they were aluminum)

I'm pretty certain the FelPros are still plastic. If you must buy from a dealership, it's okay to try to negotiate the price. If the parts counterpeople are reasonable they'll fold quickly and give you the 'garage' price. Otherwise, just remind them that you can get this stuff on the internet for nearly 1/2 the price they are asking. If they still won't budge, well it's only fair to walk out at that point.

$49 + handling from monsterpartsonline for the aluminums.

Fel pro makes them both. Generally they sell the upgrade gaskets only in a entire upper end kit , never alone, that may be where the trouble is.

Ask for their "problem solver" line

98inSFl wrote:

Was the oil milky? if not you are fine

I couldnt tell you for sure, the yard drained all the fluids. I think it will be ok, I had to swap the oil filter adapters because the grand prix's was on a different angle, the oil that came out of that looked fine. The one off the old engine was filled with milk oil and required a lot of attention to get clean.

deekster_caddy wrote:

moldymac wrote:

Are the felpro ones autozone sells the aluminum ones as well? The dealer by me wanted $75 for the ones with locating pins (they looked like they were aluminum)

I'm pretty certain the FelPros are still plastic. If you must buy from a dealership, it's okay to try to negotiate the price. If the parts counterpeople are reasonable they'll fold quickly and give you the 'garage' price. Otherwise, just remind them that you can get this stuff on the internet for nearly 1/2 the price they are asking. If they still won't budge, well it's only fair to walk out at that point.

$49 + handling from monsterpartsonline for the aluminums.

I paid $60 for the ones at the dealer by me. They wanted $15 for that tube though, which I bought at the parts store instead. And I got the SC gasket at autozone for $13 which came with the O-rings. The one the dealer had was $15 and the rings were separtate (which they did not have in stock anyways)

The engine is all together and in the car, just have to mount up a bunch of small things and then I will see what happens.

Good news! The new engine is in and runs excellent. Thanks for all your help. Now I am off to get some badly needed rear brakes.