My L67 swap from LesabreT.com

albertj wrote:

Karma wrote:

The swap to the old ones would be the surefire way to rule in or out the new rockers as the issue. The same noise with the old ones would point directly to the lifters.

Other thing you can try is run it with the VCs off and be sure that you are getting proper oiling form each pushrod, and have proper rocker movement. That will also help locate if the noise is right at each rocker or deeper.

There should be no reason you can't use the new rockers. You just need to find out whats up.

I dimly recall having to shim the camshaft mounts or some darn thing to get rockers to set right without clacking like maracas... but it was LONG ago and far away. Please consider that you may need to fab shims (for the mounts)? maybe?

Hydraulic Roller rockers mostly negates that. The rockers he has should be plug and play.



Andrew, Your stock push-rods should be fine. Inspect them for being worn, but other than that, there is no way they should be off enough to cause the clatter. Especially if they are fine with the stockers. Try the YT ones again, but run it with the covers off to see how they are working. And when installing them, take a good bunch of pics for the whole process, just in-case you are missing something in the process that we might be able to spot. If the stock valve-train works fine with no noise, then that indicates that the lifters, and push-rods are ok. So the problem must be with the YT rockers, either from install or something else. Just need to track it down.
-You did follow this right?: http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=10476

If you are having more issues or questions, PM me and I'll give you a number you can call me at, or I can give you a call.

I thought they would be fine too, but something isn't right. Before I swapped the old rockers over I did run the new ones with the front valve cover off, and4 out of the 6 seemed t be making noise, but it wasn't obvious, even with the screwdriver stethescope.

Yes, i did follow that link to a T. Can't think of anything I did different...at all. The pushrods themselves look to be in great shape...no bends or roughness or scoring or anything. I checked them all before installation of the old rockers for that reason.

Again, when the YT's were installed, depending on where the cam/cylinder was, some rods would be loose, some wouldn't. Just depended on the postition. They were all consistently 'off', if that makes sense.

Thought - any chance these could be early '94 heads and have the shorter '92-'93 pushrods? I know the build date of my riviera was May of '94, not sure of the engine. Just a thought.

The earlier heads would have a different size for the rocker bolt IIRC.

I'd pay special attention to how the pedestals fit into the guide plate, making sure they are right bottomed out. And give it another go. Lots of cam lube, and slightly overtightened.

Mine were noisy for maybe 60 seconds when I installed them, and I don't think hometownhero had any trouble with his.(Though his were used..)

Edit: Just looked up my research on pushrod length for you. Willwren on PBC measured one of his stockers a long time ago at 7.965" length. Crow Cams lists it as 7.944" and I know you can run as much as 8" and have the lifters take up the slack. Too long can cause valve float, too short chatters. But you should have a good amount of room to play with since the lifters take up a good amount of slack. Pushrods get measured at their "imaginary" length, where if they didn't have holes in the ends the curve of the ball would take them.

J Wikoff over at the Bonneville forum thinks the lifters may just not be in great shape, but not bad yet. Only way to tell is to pull them out, and i wish I would have thought of that when the LIM was off...though I didn't expect it would be a factor.

I put the front set on again and nothing changed...sorry no pictures (stupid me). Still that very small bit of play.

Put the old ones back on at least for now so I can move the car around. The Sinister tune seems to be operating things very nicely so far, at least .

I sense another tear-down is imminent...

If you are going to do new lifters, you can get a set of 16 LS7 lifters for much cheaper than the 12 reported for our engine. The LS7 ones are exactly the same, just a little more optimized to prevent valve float, the cup is a tiny bit higher, and there is more room for error of different length push-rods. I'm currently running LS7 lifters in my riv. If you want the part number let me know.

I like that idea a lot. I'll PM you. Thanks Andrew.

Alright everyone, some pics from yesterday and today, just to highlight. Everyone likes pictures!


FIlling the snout up with oil again:


Aaaaah it's good to have that thing back on there!


Fuel lines and other such pieces back on:


Buttoned up as of last night, right before I took that video:


The re-installed stock rockers from this morning:


After the whole rocker fiasco, I installed the Sinister Performance tune.


For those of you who don't know these things, the adapter/tune is what's in my hand, and the PCM's MEM-CAL chip is attached to it on the right...the black thing.


Then it goes in place of where the original MEM-CAL was...And the cover goes right back over top like nothing happened.


Annnnd we have data!




So in more recent events, the car needed gas (what a surprise), so I figured why not test drive it for a while and go get petrol. My Gram helped me put the hood back on, then she went home, my dad got home and went with me.

Rode it gently to the gas station, filled up, and went on a 30 miles trip of as straight and flat roads as possible to give the PCM time to figure out what the heck was going on in the engine bay. I scanned the whole time, everything looked awesome. Coolant didn't get much above 185, outside temps about 75, IAT temps of 83 (VERY impressive to me). While at a stretch of straight highway at a stop light my dad says 'ok enough of this...let's actually accelerate now.'

'ok!'

Didn't quite do full throttle, but holy CRAP did this thing want to break loose. No KR that I saw, thank goodness, and the supercharger screams like an absolute batsh*t crazy banshee. You were right Karma, that's the best way to describe it! Depending on the engine RPM, it gets 2 to 3 different tones i can identify (music major, sorry) and it almost sounds organic, not mechanical. Boost kicks in quite a bit earlier than it used to...the bypass valve actuator adjustment seems to have helped a bit, as does the blower mods in general. At part throttle, there's a very satisfying 'air sucking' sound going through the intake. The trans downshifts its nice, quick, and solid. May give the modulator a bit more adjustment though just to see what it does.

The rear shocks seemed to have settled out nicely. I didn't check the pressure but the ride height is right where i like it. The front struts have settled a bit more too, which is nice. The car rides just every so slightly rougher than before, but that was expected. It takes corners like no one's business, but I haven't taken it on the back roads around here yet. Hardly any body roll to speak of.

Probably some more pics tomorrow...i'm going to clean the engine bay, put the PCM back into the dash and clean the interior in the afternoon.

Z-type wrote:

the supercharger screams like an absolute batsh*t crazy banshee.

... yeah thats about right. I've had cars pull over and out of the way when winding it up on the on-ramp of the highway cause they mistook it for a siren.

*bump*

sooo, how's she screaming?

*wakes up from the RivPerformance coma*

What I mean by that is, I've been sooooooo busy the last couple weeks since the car has been put back together. Been doing all sorts of goofy work schedules, car detailing, and trying to get my vacation situation all situated!

This is the first day I haven't had much to do (I still detailed my friend's Harley anyway) but I was able to get some pics of the 'ol T-type. Karma - the car is absolutely INSANE! I love how the blower turned out as far as performance goes, the screaming is extremely loud, intense, and plentiful!

I have a friend in Cleveland, Ohio who has a 28,000 mile T-type and I went to see it and visit him yesterday. Got some nice pics, but not what I'm going to show you. It was an extremely nice and easy ride, and this car rides like no other. Basically drives itself! What I really wanted to report is how the PCM and engine responded to a long trip. I filled up the car before I left, and by the time I got back home last night, I had driven just a little under 300 miles round trip. Filled up with 93 at the local Sunoco and found my car got an average of 29.8 MPG !! I was thrilled to see this, especially with the Sinister Performance tune that's in there. Probably would have been higher, but the highways were fast, around 75 mpg. I'm so happy everything turned out like it has.

Just have to pick some time to put in new lifters and get the Yella Terras back on.

For now, pics of what I believe to be a very unique (and slightly frightening) T-type.

























For some reason, I really like this picture.



And I know what you're all probably going to ask. "WHERE'S THE VIDEOS???" . When I get more time, I swear there will be videos. If the weather behaves, maybe Sunday. The sound this thing makes is crazy.

That T-type looks bad ass!

Just a thought, but the body lines on the T-type are eerily similar to the Iroc-Z/Z28's of the same era. Since the car already has what could be called ground effects on the nose I can't help but wonder (if they fit) how a set of Camaro style ones would look on the sides and rear. In my "minds eye" I think it would look pretty sinister, not stock I realize of course, but definately food for thought. Have fun with those YT's, but make sure you lock tight them (can't stress it enough) 1 of mine backed off 1 time after they were initially installed and of course it had to be on the firewall side. Kind of a pain in the ass to redo without any leaving scuffs on the Valve cover when everything is already painted and finished. Just my thoughts anyway, she looks fantastic!

P.S. BTW what did your Sinister tune run you? I still have to get mine done. Do you have to send the whole ECM away? Or what?

Hometown Hero, I see where you are coming from with the similar styling as compared to the camaro. I sort of think that those camaros look like they have really cheap plastic bumpers, where as these t-types look completely solid. I like the look of those camaros, but they just don't look solid enough to me.

I like the nose on the t type better as well but it just looks unfinished since they didn't carry the profile all the way round the car.

Thanks guys!

There actually were two body kits available for the Lesabre back when the car was new. One is a conversion kit called the GST:



And there was also a dealer-installed kit from the company called Pacific. This kit included ground effects and a different rear bumper cover that followed the same lines as the T-type front spoiler:


There's a couple guys on LesabreT.com with the latter body kit. Looks REALLY good! As far as anyone knows, no more GST's exist.

Anywho, Klix, Karma might be a better person to ask about the tune, seeing as you are in Canada. I paid something like $120 for the MEM-CAL adapter with the new tune on it. Plugs in between the PCM's original chip and the PCM itself, as seen in pictures farther up in this page. That included shipping. You do not need to send in your PCM, just fill out a form Ryan will send you. Asks about your engine and trans, car that it's in, mods involved, fuel trims, etc. Totally worth it!

I like your hood. looks tuff, and IMO I think your car has a non-pretentiousness look... not like your trying too hard, ya know what I mean?

Thanks Glenn! That's pretty well what I was going for...not trying to show off, but catch your eye.

Alright y'all,

Finally had time to do videos! Two videos, same type as last time. The first one is a 10 minute drive with several moments of 'gunning it'.

Because this is a rural area, I have the luxury of being able to 'gun it' once in a while without too much risk. A lot of the area around me is still suburban though, so I didn't get too crazy. 3:22 and 5:42 have the most whine. Only 3:22 is full throttle, but it's a doozy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5Jsq6emDkA&feature=youtu.be

The second video is a drive-by like I did back in November, except my dad is manning the camera instead of a tripod. Problem is, our road was recently tarred and chipped. This makes for a lot of tire noise which in turn, blocks out most of the supercharger whine. Just trust me, after we took the video, my dad was shocked at how loud it was. Refer to video #1 at 3:22 . Still, this is a cool video, and i think my exhaust sounds pretty darn good for an L67.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy6PKS1T3CM&feature=youtu.be


I know you all know this, and I certainly know this. This is NOT the fastest car on the road...but...the amount of torque this thing is producing has me very nervous about doing full throttle from a start - it's dangerous on public roads. That's why I didn't do a lot in the first video and did not do full throttle at all in the second. When I passed the camera on the first pass, I was already doing 70 mph. SCARY on the road surface i was on.

All that being said, THIS CAR IS SO MUCH FUN . Anyone who can come to Pittsburgh, I encourage them to stop by for a ride! Mwahaha.

Damn boy! aint no one ever told yoU to stay off the grass!? Sounds and looks awsome!
I dont know what it is but I love the sound Car tires make prowling allong a gravel road.

Dude! that's sweet! If i'm ever in the area Ill stop by!

that car is sexy!

Haha thanks guys. I knew there was love for the Series I out there!!

It's very deceiving, however. Because of all the road noise on the drive-by video, the supercharger sounds tame. I like the video as a video, but the sound is crap. The first video, at 3:22, really gives you the best representation of the sound.


Aaaaaaah I love this car. Thanks again, Karma Kustoms!

Small update - I fixed two problems today that have sort of been lingering, and only one I knew about.

The first one was the PCM connector in the engine bay. I had it just leaning up against the firewall cover and cruise control vacuum reservoir. It liked to fall a lot from that area and when I found it the other day almost touching the exhaust manifold, I knew it was time to fix it.

This is kinda where it sits, minus the firewall cover, which I had already removed. For those of you who don't know, there's a nut that holds the vacuum reservoir and firewall cover to the firewall via a stud. I decided this would be a good place to make a bracket from for it, since it's all of 3 inches away.


Dave (8T8) came up with the idea of a wrap-around type of bracket a few weeks ago when i visited him. I decided to do something like that, but only make it wrap partway. I had some thin sheet aluminum laying around so I measured a few things, cut a piece, and through much trial, error, and messing around, I bent the strip of aluminum into a decent looking shape that would hold the PCM connector tight against the firewall cover. This is it installed, without the connector.


And in place. I apologize for the dirt. I drive the car a lot lately.


Turned out pretty nice I think! Especially for someone who has never worked with metal, really. Now, while I was in the middle of all this, I discovered something interesting.

This is the smaller of the two cables that comes from the negative side of the battery, to the ground underneath the coils. Notice the close proximity to the belt.


I had noticed my idle was getting slightly rougher as time went on, but I know I have a pretty extreme PCM tune so I didn't think much of it. I think this was the problem, and probably why the supercharger threw its belt a few weeks back. You can see how it rubbed right through two or three lines of copper.



So I unbolted the cable underneath the coils, adjusted it so it counter-clockwise so the cable was much farther away from the belt, and taped up the cable that was rubbed through until I can get a replacement. My idle is much smoother now, and voltage gauge isn't being quite as jumpy. Just another day in the life!

Awsome find!

You can make that fix last longer by putting some RTV on in place of the worn away insulation, then wrapping it.

Albertj

Ah! I like that idea. Thanks Albert. I'll do that!