Motor died today.

Jack the R wrote:

Does the bolt need to come off?  Why would the plug receptacle need to come off the firewall?

I'm sure this plug has never been pulled.

The bolt stays with the connector that you are removing.....the female side.

If it's possible, you can spray some WD40 between the 2 connector bodies and let it soak overnight. This might loosen the pair enough to get movement. Once it starts moving, you'll be able to get it apart.
No, WD40 won't hurt the connections. It's actually an excellent terminal cleaner.

EDIT: Shit....that big ass connector doesn't have a 7mm in the center of it clamping the 2 together?
I just looked at the pic closer.

Abaddon wrote:

EDIT: Shit....that big ass connector doesn't have a 7mm in the center of it clamping the 2 together?
I just looked at the pic closer.

Yes it does.  You aren't going crazy Scott.  Look at my second picture, you can see the threaded part of the bolt on the front section.

https://2img.net/h/i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/SLD1624/Connector2R.jpg

Abaddon wrote:

EDIT: Shit....that big ass connector doesn't have a 7mm in the center of it clamping the 2 together?

Well I wonder if that was my problem all along!

LARRY70GS wrote:

Yes it does.  You aren't going crazy Scott.   Look at my second picture, you can see the threaded part of the bolt on the front section.

Phew! I feel better now.

Jack, does the connector back itself out to an extent when you're unbolting it (it should), or does the bolt just seem to turn?

Abaddon wrote:

LARRY70GS wrote:

Yes it does.  You aren't going crazy Scott.   Look at my second picture, you can see the threaded part of the bolt on the front section.

Phew! I feel better now.

Jack, does the connector back itself out to an extent when you're unbolting it (it should), or does the bolt just seem to turn?

If you're talking about the one hiding in the black plastic tunnel, I was going to ask what size and type of driver it takes, because I can't see what's in there. I tried a phillips, but that didn't seem to engage.

Jack the R wrote:

If you're talking about the one hiding in the black plastic tunnel, I was going to ask what size and type of driver it takes, because I can't see what's in there.  I tried a phillips, but that didn't seem to engage.  

It should be a 7mm

I ordered some electonics cleaner and sprayed the connections down good. The plug came out super easy once I removed the hidden 7mm bolt. Now I can rule out this problem. Would a bad crankshaft position sensor also cause a miss?

The Riv's been running fine since cleaning the electrical connector, but I'm planning to address the other potential problems.  So, here are a couple parts questions -

Crankshaft Position Sensor -

What is the difference between ACDELCO 2134665 and ACDELCO 213151

The latter is $23 more, but has no extra features listed.  The former appears to be the same as  STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS PC30, which is another $5 cheaper.

Then there's ACDELCO 19326459, the cheapest AC Delco option.  

Going by the descriptions I'd think the Standard PC30 is the one to get.

Ignition Switch -

There's a "cheap" AC Delco - ACDELCO D1482D and an expensive AC Delco - ACDELCO D1438F.  The expensive AC Delco appears to be a rebadged version of the STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS US260  Both AC Delco's have a 12 month warranty, but the Standard has a 36 month warranty.  

I'm thinking either the cheap AC Delco or the Standard, but probably the cheap AC Delco for $55 less.

I wouldn't completely dismiss your initial hunch of the failing fuel pump. Mine went slowly, stalling once every few weeks, then more frequently. If/when it happens again, if the engine turns over but doesn't fire, pop the trunk and hit the center floor firmly with a blunt object. If it then starts, probably is the issue.

Hmm, going to have to start carrying a rubber mallet . . .

AA wrote:

I wouldn't completely dismiss your initial hunch of the failing fuel pump. Mine went slowly, stalling once every few weeks, then more frequently. If/when it happens again, if the engine turns over but doesn't fire, pop the trunk and hit the center floor firmly with a blunt object. If it then starts, probably is the issue.

I am struggling to remember when my original fuel pump failed. It was ages ago. My GM dealer installed a Carter (SShhh - factory pumps were available but had a poor reputation with the mechanics and the Carters were cheaper) and I have not had to mess with it since. Thinking about it, that was more than 150,000 miles ago...

Car died again yesterday while idling up the driveway. No problem restarting. Conclusion, the fuel pump was not the problem after all.

Hey Jack, with the engine running, try moving the key and switch ever so lightly. Push it in and out, twist and turn ever so lightly. See if it will stall. If it does, that's what it is.

Jack the R wrote:

Car died again yesterday while idling up the driveway.  No problem restarting.  Conclusion, the fuel pump was not the problem after all.  

...given the amount of time between your posts on this topic, actually---I would suspect the crank sensor (behind the flywheel). If you've never changed it, you're due. If you didn't use an OE or a Delphi, and it's 2+ years old, you're due.

LARRY70GS - Tried it, couldn't make the engine stall. There's one problem I don't have.

albertj - I've got an AC Delco Professional Crankshaft Position Sensor, Made in Mexico, waiting to go on. Need to get a harmonic balancer puller that will work on the Riv, and whatever it takes to do the case learn.

When I replaced mine, there was no case learn. Never had a problem.

Jack the R wrote:

LARRY70GS - Tried it, couldn't make the engine stall.  There's one problem I don't have.

albertj - I've got an AC Delco Professional Crankshaft Position Sensor, Made in Mexico, waiting to go on.  Need to get a harmonic balancer puller that will work on the Riv, and whatever it takes to do the case learn.

There was another thread on CPS replacement.

When my original died, the GM dealer installed a Standard brand sensor b/c they did not have any on hand/close. The problem was, the Standard only lasted a couple years. Car died again, towed to dealer, they actually ordered and waited for the replacement Delphi CPS -- I think they loaned me a beater, too (a roadworthy car taken on trade in that they are gong to wholesale, I think it was a 2-year old Cobalt with 120K miles or some such). Told them I appreciated it and asked them why the delay, they said that after I brought my Riv in they noticed a rash of CPS failures and had installed a bunch of the Standard CPS, which began to fail a bit more than a year later. Parts manager said, "sorry you have to wait but we will not install a Standard for that. We can get one in an hour. But, we don't know why they fail but most of the ones we installed after yours have come back. So we don't put 'em in. We were wondering when you'd be back or if you sold the car."

I did some digging and found out that the problem supposedly was the way that the sensor's internal connections are fashioned. CPSs are Hall Effect sensors, and I kind of doubt there's much difference between one and another makers' sensor in this application. However -- the Delphi's electrical connections are much, much more durable than about anyone else's, for this CPS application. The Delco people make and source good parts, and yours should work fine, but I don't know anything about their internals. I know something about the Delphi's so that's what I stick to talking about.

JR,
If you should end up needing the ignition switch wiring harness I have one here that you can have.
I had a similar problem with mine and after replacing the harness and the problem still existed I found it was a dirty fuse in the driver side panel. Cleaned the connectors in the panel and installed a new fuse then all was good. A lot of labor and money was wasted for a GM switch and harness assembly but live and learn.

Word of caution........Always check the easy stuff first. Not to say that is your issue but I'm just saying.

I also replaced the CPS in my car and it ran fine after install but I still did the re-learn procedure. But I had free access to a Snap-On diag tool that did the trick.

Rickw wrote:

JR,
If you should end up needing the ignition switch wiring harness I have one here that you can have.
I had a similar problem with mine and after replacing the harness and the problem still existed I found it was a dirty fuse in the driver side panel. Cleaned the connectors in the panel and installed a new fuse then all was good. A lot of labor and money was wasted for a GM switch and harness assembly but live and learn.

Word of caution........Always check the easy stuff first. Not to say that is your issue but I'm just saying.

I also replaced the CPS in my car and it ran fine after install but I still did the re-learn procedure. But I had free access to a Snap-On diag tool that did the trick.

+1 Rick

Word to the wise:  I am pretty sure you can avoid the re-learn if you disconnect the battery before you R&R the CPS.  That said, check the FSM for the crank relearn procedure, it's not that tough.

As for the ignition switch (not the keyeay, the switch) I have replaced mine *twice* for cause. I'll be due again in another 60-80K.

Albertj

Rickw wrote:

JR,
If you should end up needing the ignition switch wiring harness I have one here that you can have.
I had a similar problem with mine and after replacing the harness and the problem still existed I found it was a dirty fuse in the driver side panel. Cleaned the connectors in the panel and installed a new fuse then all was good. A lot of labor and money was wasted for a GM switch and harness assembly but live and learn.

Word of caution........Always check the easy stuff first. Not to say that is your issue but I'm just saying.

I also replaced the CPS in my car and it ran fine after install but I still did the re-learn procedure. But I had free access to a Snap-On diag tool that did the trick.

Are you referring to this - Link

I mean, if you don't want it, I'd be glad to have it. Was planning on replacing mine.

I'll try cleaning the fuse. I suspect the problem will be the CPS and have one ready to go.

LARRY70GS wrote:

When I replaced mine, there was no case learn.  Never had a problem.

I know a guy with a tech 2, but I'd feel better if I could take the car to him rather than ask him to come to the car.

Jack the R wrote:

Are you referring to this - Link

I mean, if you don't want it, I'd be glad to have it.  Was planning on replacing mine.

I'll try cleaning the fuse.  I suspect the problem will be the CPS and have one ready to go.

Yes that looks like what I have. I'll have to have a look in my garage but it's yours for the cost of shipping if you want it.

Just PM me full name and address. I can't find your info even though I know I had it in the past.

Rick

EDIT to add:
I found the one I have in the original box.

It has a GM P/N 26030594
AC Delco # D1482D

It fit my 98 so I hope it's the right one for your car.

It looks like I paid $275.16 for it. That's if my notes are correct. I can't remember, but it doesn't matter to me.

It's still yours if you need it.

Can't pass up a deal like that. Will PM shortly.

JR,
Did you check that the P/N I posted above is the correct one for your 97.?????
Rick

Rockauto lists the same AC Delco parts for 97 and 98. I don't see that part number though.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/buick,1997,riviera,3.8l+v6+supercharged,1022050,ignition,crankshaft+position+sensor,7196

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/buick,1998,riviera,3.8l+v6+supercharged,1303322,ignition,crankshaft+position+sensor,7196