FAQ: Series I SC Harmonic Balancer Diagnosis/Installation

I know AC Delco parts are great,but does anyone have experience with Dorman parts? $95 @ rockauto.....good enough for the girls i go out with....

robotennis61 wrote:

I know AC Delco parts are great,but does anyone have experience with Dorman parts? $95 @ rockauto.....good enough for the girls i go out with....

This is totally based on my experience in the last 4 years...

I had both water and steering pumps from Delco that were total shit... They now (at the time) make two grades of parts, and the cheap crap comes from China, and the 'good' stuff comes from Argentina for Christ's sake!

Dorman is a long-time aftermarket supplier, but with the way our government is letting "American" companies off-shore
their stuff, I don't trust anything anymore... I would save the $ and go with Dorman.

Well i got mine hb off with a impact wrench and a good air compresor. it sat there for about 20-30 sec then spun right off. seal was still good and re installed with the same impact wrench..

bought the dorman last night. should be here wednesday. i hope it comes with a new bolt.mine looks knackered

Well i got mine hb off with a impact wrench and a good air compresor. it sat there for about 20-30 sec then spun right off. seal was still good and re installed with the same impact wrench..

got it done. i used the breaker bar against the sub frame. worked like a charm. the impact didnt do s..t! ghetto mechanics,gotta love it
word to those installing a HB. generously oil the ID of the HB,and clean the OD of the CS where the HB sits. it helps a ton for the reinstall

robotennis61 wrote:

got it done. i used the breaker bar against the sub frame. worked like a charm. the impact didnt do s..t! ghetto mechanics,gotta love it
word to those installing a HB. generously oil the ID of the HB,and clean the OD of the CS where the HB sits. it helps a ton for the reinstall

Did you install a Dorman unit as per your previous post (Sept) and did you replace the bolt that holds it on as well.
Just curious what you thought of the Dorman quality if that is what you bought.?????

Also, did you need to use the puller to get it off or did it fall off, sort of speak.??

Did you also line up the notches? If not she mite skip a beat!!!

yap. a dorman HB it is. looks of a better quality than what was on there. i did not need a puller. after removing the bolt, i just wiggled it off.amazing.
i looked all over town for a new bolt,dorman unit didnt come with one,and had to go to the evil GM dealership.and bought a bolt there,$20 bucks,and left.. feeling an odd pain in my backside...

flyineagle96 wrote:

Did you also line up the notches? If not she mite skip a beat!!!

yap. i wanted to take the woodruff key out,but it would not budge? either its part of the crank,or its stuck. so i left it and the HB went on ,no prob.

When I did my CKP sensor and had to remove the HB, I found the only place that had a bolt was the Dealer.
Had that strange feeling from behind as well, how odd......

haha the only feeling odder than that is the look the counter guy gives you when you decide to go ahead and pay"suggested retail" for a damn bolt.

I know they consider this bolt a torque to yeild (one time use) bolt, but after having removed mine cleanly with no scarring of the bolt, I would consider re-using it in the future if I had to do it all over again. It's a stout bolt and really can't see why it needs replacing after one use.???

Rickw wrote:

I know they consider this bolt a torque to yeild (one time use) bolt, but after having removed mine cleanly with no scarring of the bolt, I would consider re-using it in the future if I had to do it all over again. It's a stout bolt and really can't see why it needs replacing after one use.???

Because it stretches. You wouldn't be able to see this.

i reused mine and used red of thread locker on it. no problems thus far with 2yrs and ~20k miles

Mr.Riviera wrote:

i reused mine and used red of thread locker on it. no problems thus far with 2yrs and ~20k miles

cant say for sure,but applying thread lock to HB bolt is not advised.if its a torque to yield bolt,the "strech" will hold it from backing out.

robotennis61 wrote:

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.
Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you." --Anonymous

Priceless!!

robotennis61 wrote:

Mr.Riviera wrote:

i reused mine and used red of thread locker on it. no problems thus far with 2yrs and ~20k miles

cant say for sure,but applying thread lock to HB bolt is not advised.if its a torque to yield bolt,the "stretch" will hold it from backing out.

This actually hearkens back to high-school/college, and the difference between stress and strain.... If a torque-to-yield bolt is installed correctly, it has reached the limit of its stress and stretched into the point of strain. Thus, it has seen it's useful life.

Eldo wrote:

robotennis61 wrote:

Mr.Riviera wrote:

i reused mine and used red of thread locker on it. no problems thus far with 2yrs and ~20k miles

cant say for sure,but applying thread lock to HB bolt is not advised.if its a torque to yield bolt,the "stretch" will hold it from backing out.

This actually hearkens back to high-school/college, and the difference between stress and strain.... If a torque-to-yield bolt is installed correctly, it has reached the limit of its stress and stretched into the point of strain. Thus, it has seen it's useful life.

why does the above remind me that its time i cracked open a beer?..oh well ill quaff one and think about it....

[quote="robotennis61"]

Eldo wrote:

robotennis61 wrote:

This actually hearkens back to high-school/college, and the difference between stress and strain.... If a torque-to-yield bolt is installed correctly, it has reached the limit of its stress and stretched into the point of strain. Thus, it has seen it's useful life.

why does the above remind me that its time i cracked open a beer?..oh well ill quaff one and think about it....

Sorry I stressed you, Robo.... (or was it strain?)

wow. i just found that ATI makes a high performance HB for our car. $536 @ Summit.
10% larger on the blower pully.
100% rebuildable


ATI Performance Products 918421 - ATI Standard Harmonic Balance
" " 918422 - with larger blower pully

large image $536.88

Harmonic Balancer, Super Damper, Internal Balance, Aluminum, Black, Buick 1975-2007, 3.8L, V6, Each

I am going to be replacing the crank sensor sometme this week on the kids 98. I will let you know how it went.

drk

Hello all!

First off, let me say I've been lurking here since I bought my Riviera in June. I'm just an average shadetree mechanic when it comes to street cars. Most of my past experience falls into V8 Fords, so the 3800 SC is somewhat of a mystery to me. That being said, I have found this board to be very informative, with some great answers and ideas. If anyone can help me with my problem, I know you guys can.

My Riviera is a 95 with just over 90,000 on the clock. I am experiencing an engine stumble driving, under load. The first couple months I had this car, it ran and drove very well. Since then, when the Riv is first started in the morning, or the car is cool, it starts and runs just as you would normally expect. Once I drive approx 20 miles in the morning, the stumbling starts as a very mild hitch in the "feel" of the engine. Usually I can make it all the way to work (65 miles) in the AM with just a couple of misses. In the evening, however, once the car has been sitting during the heat of the day, and everything is heat-soaked, the miss begins almost immediately, and it is bad. I lose enough rpm during each stumble that I drop in speed 10 mph or so. The engine never actually stalls, but it feels like there is no spark to the engine. Eventually it clears out for a few miles, but it always begins again about 10 miles down the road. During all these times, I'm pretty much just rolling about 70-75 on the cruise, about 2000 RPM. Lately it will also stumble while doing city driving, and once it performed it's trick at idle.

Recently, once it started stumbling during city driving, it maintained a feel like it had 2 or 3 cylinders continually misfiring. The odd thing about it was that if i stayed on the throttle, it accelerated with a reduced power feel until the boost from the SC kicked in, at which point the power picked back up, the stumbling stopped, and the car more or less felt as it normally would under heavy throttle. Once I let off, and the RPM dropped back below 2800, the miss returned. I was able to duplicate this reaction every time the car has misfired since.

Right now, I have no SEL on. When I have the codes read, the only codes stored are the "Left Bank Too Lean" and "Misfire (Bank 1)" I also have no sign of oil in the coolant or vice-versa that would indicate a LIM gasket.

As I mentioned before, I've been around cars enough to try and chase it down. Since I just bought this car a few months ago, and I know next to nothing about its history, I thought a little parts-throwing couldn't hurt. If nothing else, I'll be replacing some 15-year-old parts with fresh pieces.

So far, (based in no small part on the helpful advice from this site) this is what I have done:
*New plugs and wires
*New coilpacks and ICM
*New fuel pump/module
*Fuel filter
*New Crankshaft Positon Sensor
*Removed ICM bracket, cleaned bracket and ground terminals, traced ICM wiring to check for a break
*MAF cleaner through the MAF sensor

When I traced the wiring for the ICM, there were a couple of the ground wires on the bracket stud that had the insulation damaged and wire exposed. I put heat shrink on the exposed wiring, and sealed it back to the good insulation in the corrugated wrap. This did not help the problem at all.

The only mod I have done so far is to remove the baffles from the airbox, but I did that after the problems started. The only things I did mechanically that coincided with the problem starting was to change the oil after running some Seafoam through it, and to put half a can of Seafoam in the tank. I have run enough fuel from a trusted station through the car to eliminate contaminated fuel from the equation. I will also mention that the problem is definitely heat-related; the car runs like a champ until it gets to temperature.

My only other ideas off the top of my head are the PCM or the cam sensor/interruptor My only thought on the cam sensor is that I have no SEL indicating a cam sensor malfunction.

Sorry I've been so windy, but does anyone have any thoughts?

I thank you in advance for pondering this problem for me.

I am kinda stumped by this but I'd check the wiring connection at the firewall.

Did you check the following threads for ideas?

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t7245-95-sc-throwing-codes-intermittent-running-problems

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t8157-electrical-problem

Also - if the quality of the components you are installing is low, you are effectively installing problems by replacing parts. For instance, the OE ignition system is a very high energy design, and does not like to operate properly with inexpensive wires. MAF cleaner thru the MAF sensor tends to move the problems around not fix, need to remove sensor to clean it.

My guess for what little it's worth is you've a hidden break in the wiring harness in or near that firewall connector, I'd especially check the black wire in the corner - I think it's top left corner but not sure. I could be way the heck off but that's where I'd start. In general you're looking for an "intermittent." (duh) As for the firewall connector recently there was a real nice post with pictures showing what to look for and how to fix but I can't find it maybe one of the moderators (AA) wil point it out.

By the way another source of problems that won't set codes is the ignition switch itself because it looks to the PCM like you're turning the car off and so it won't set a code.

Notice that you get thru first ~20 or so miles driving without (major) issues -- could be that's why your car hit the used car market in the first place?!?! You'd never have found this problem on a test drive is my guess, don't feel bad about it. Also did your car have service records when you got it? If so might want to review them but also keep in mind parts quality is an issue.

My thinking is if we keep after this we will *definitely* find and fix the problem but it will require some hard headed old school systematic troubleshooting and it will take a while...

Albertj