Write-Up: Meziere Water Pump

For write-up click here (sorry for missing pics):
https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t1923-write-up-meziere-water-pump#20191

I read on regalgs.org that an electric water pump is good for 7hp. That seems worthwhile. Is it true, and if so, who sells them?

$280... http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=237

Same at Intense. If you can ID the pump, Summit may be cheaper.

Hmm, a bit pricey for 7 hp. Must be why so few people do this mod.

it wont fit with power steering, just to let you know.

97rivman wrote:

it wont fit with power steering, just to let you know.

Is that a Riviera issue? I saw no mention of it on either ZZP or Intense listings.

It IS expensive, and should really only be considered for a Race car, not a daily driver.

Would make a much bigger difference on a much smaller engine, imo.

1998 Riv wrote:

97rivman wrote:

it wont fit with power steering, just to let you know.

Is that a Riviera issue? I saw no mention of it on either ZZP or Intense listings.

It IS expensive, and should really only be considered for a Race car, not a daily driver.

Have you ever heard of intense or ZZP building a fast Riviera.....the main problem is the way the belts have to be rerouted. First, you need a shorter belt, and then that one will rub up against the side mount. After I groinded it down, the serpentine belt was going straight up to the alternator tensioner and it was right up against the power steering you can see in this picture how it is routed, and then you can try to figure out how to actually make the power steering work.

I ended up removing the power steering and then making the guys brain hurt at autozone as he was trying to find a belt that matched up to the dimension i had. Its not worth it unless your building a drag car.

O.K., one less mod I have to worry about . . .

but in reality, you will probably free up a few more horsepower as well from taking the powersteering out too. and then the A/C.....figure 7 HP per pulley/accessory....X3= 21 HP!!!!!!

97rivman wrote:

but in reality, you will probably free up a few more horsepower as well from taking the powersteering out too. and then the A/C.....figure 7 HP per pulley/accessory....X3= 21 HP!!!!!!

I'd rather keep the A/C and powersteering than gain 14 HP from deleting them.

If you read the fine print, the 7hp is gained near red line. So figure much less when you arent beating on it.

Dont get me wrong, if it wasnt a pain to install I would drop in a used one for my weekend riv.

Good point. I was going to say I don't believe it takes 7 hp to spin our water pump. It might take that much at 6500 RPM, I can believe that. Same goes for the other accessories. I'd rather keep my A/C and power steering, thanks.

Ignoring the body, this should work identically for Rivs.

Parts needed:
2000+ B'ville power steering pump bracket.
2000+ B'ville or GP Alternator tensioner assembly.
2000+ B'ville or GP Alternator, I chose B'ville for the 125amp
Dorman coolant elbow pack.
Mezier WP
4" shorter belt
3 wire connector for alternator with ~4" of wire.

Moved the coolant outlets off my tensioner onto the new one. The B'ville and GP outlets are straight up, I needed the 90 degree elbows. Drained coolant. removed alt and alt tensioner bracket (remove hoses), remove ps pump, remove torque axis mount. ([bBonus[/b]: now your ps pump pulley does not block the torque axis bolt).

Install ps pump bracket on block and reinstall ps pump, being careful not to let pump rest on oil pressure sensor. Remove old water pump, clean gasket surface and install new pump. Install new alternator tensioner bracket and alternator, reattach heater hoses. Now the fun beings with grinding the torque axis mount for clearance. Test fit the TA bracket and grind until you are pleased with the results and reinstall. While grinding remember that each pound you remove is less weight at the track.

Now with all belts back on route your wiring for the pump, connecting the wiring harness in line with the connector by the ICM. Secure your wiring and connect to ground and battery. Turn key to hear pump run. (Don't run long w/o coolant) Now refill your coolant, start the car and burp the system.

And the pics, unfortunately I didn't get any during.

Does this free up HP? How much?

My understanding is it could free up as much as 5-6. It should probably be considered more of a practical mod for cooling at the track than a hp gain. To cool the engine, you turn the key to on and the water pump is on...if hot enough your fans will also come on. At the track I will probably set my fans to 150F to keep them on all the time.

For me it was more a matter of right price and could it be done. Much of my modding is done on a budget and when the right price comes along a new mod goes onto the car. As well it was a challenge to see if it could be done and retain all the accessories. Oldsman made me aware of the person from this forum that had tried it and removed the PS to make it work. IIRC he also posted on 3800PRO. Through his information I started to understand all the belt path obstructions.

Yeah, that was me.

That coolant passage with the tensioner pulley is defiantly different than mine. The bonne power steering pump looks like it has a smaller pulley than the rivs or it is pushed back further towards the cabin than usual. As for hp increases, 5-6 is about right, not enough to really feel a difference but the cooling effect is much better. As i said before with my car, ive eliminated the a/c, power steering and switched to a meziere so realistically, i should be seeing about 20 extra hp, of course i have no way to theoretically test this since i also have everything else done to the motor.

The biggest problem ive had so far is belt wrap around the crank pulley. With the meziere there is less than 50% belt wrap, as opposed to the stock water pump that comes around inside the engine mount. The belt i have now is still too big with the power steering gone. I also dont know if my alternator is crapped or not. Goddamn A1000 fuel pump and amplifier drains the battery so fast.

Good pics though and info though!!!!!

The power steering was relocated back to the cabin about 1.5". I would have run into the same problem as you did with the belts hitting because of the change in routing.

2000+ B'villes have a bracket that attaches in the stock location of the ps pump and moves it back ~1.5". That's how it worked out. Your coolant passages come straight out right? The outlets on this bracket did originally, I modified my 90 degree elbows to work. (changed how the bolt held them in.)

How does the '00 Bonneville alt compare with the Riv alt regarding the GV? Did you have to grind on that as well or was it a better placement?

That's the kicker. The 00+ B'ville or most year GP's that look like the one in my pic fit perfectly with the Gen V. No modifications are needed.

One thing was that my car has a boost gauge and therefore no voltmeter in the cluster. My alternator had two wires, one to turn on the field (activate alternator to generate power) and one to report back if the alternator stops functioning. The 00+ bonne has a third wire that needs to be connected to +12V from anywhere on the car. I used the BCS circuit. where it passes by the alternator. This +12V allows the alternator to monitor the overall voltage in the car. Without this wire, the alt light would be illuminated as this is one of the things the 00 alternator reports back to the pcm.

Basic hook up was use the two existing wires to my old alternator and add one to any +12V circuit on the car.

With this additional wire, the ZZP tip on voltage boosting works.

Anyone running a meziere water pump, in their series 2. on the street or the track.

I think 97rivman is, though I'm not sure he's actually running. IIRC, there is some modification required in order to make it fit. Not worth it on the street. Dedicated track car, it may be.

didnt think that it would be worth it either

just idle wondering here... are water pumps the same between series 2 and 1? would the electric water pump work on a series 1?

LOL, yeah, mine is running, but i ran into serious belt routing problems. I guess 04 bonneville brackets allow it to work with the power steering. It works great in my car. when temps do get up to 180, they stay.

I am and didn't have belt wrap problems... I do have 2.8 with larger ballancer pulley and IC so that could change stock pulley routing slightly. I didn;t use the 00+ bonnie bracket