| Timing Chain | |
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+13Rickw Eldo deekster_caddy TonySmooth89 Jack the R AA T Riley turtleman jrocha BillBoost37 oldsman105 dreww jax95riv 17 posters |
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jax95riv Aficionado
Name : Jack Age : 62 Location : Oklahoma City Joined : 2007-01-14 Post Count : 1062 Merit : 6
| Subject: Timing Chain Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:03 pm | |
| My car has 134k on it and I've never had to mess with the timing chain and gears...should this task be a "time change" or should I go on the assumption "if it's not broke don't fix it"? Thanks. | |
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dreww Junkie
Location : Dallas Joined : 2007-04-10 Post Count : 851 Merit : 9
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:26 am | |
| i wouldnt mess with it until you break it, or you happen to be in the doing something else and its easy to get too (like a cam install, or engine rebuild). | |
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oldsman105 Junkie
Name : Enrique Patino Age : 39 Location : Queens, New York City Joined : 2007-01-24 Post Count : 756 Merit : 10
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:30 am | |
| On a stock 3800. If it ain't broken don't fix it. Unless your swapping a cam. | |
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BillBoost37 Junkie
Location : Enfield CT Joined : 2007-11-28 Post Count : 769 Merit : 26
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:28 am | |
| To give you a reference point, there are many 3800's out there with stock timing chain and over 200K miles.
I beat mine to 186K before replacing it while doing a cam. | |
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jrocha Enthusiast
Name : John Age : 56 Location : Lisbon, Portugal Joined : 2007-07-12 Post Count : 104 Merit : 0
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:00 pm | |
| That's good info. I was thinking of replacing mine (just beacause), but I won't be doing it now.
Thanks | |
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turtleman Expert
Name : Codith Age : 37 Location : Villa Park, IL Joined : 2007-02-08 Post Count : 3671 Merit : 140
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:31 pm | |
| I changed mine at about 160k-165k miles in the process or diagnosing a tricky problem I was having. I probably could have gone without doing it but I'm quite glad I did. The tensioner looked like shit and there was slight slack in the chain due to wear. It was enough to have a small effect on low rpm performance in the engine. I really don't hear of them straight up breaking much so I would say letting it go for now would be ok. If you think you'll be taking it apart some time in the future to do something else like a cam, just wait. If not, I might just do it soon just because you technically should. | |
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T Riley Guru
Name : Travis Age : 34 Location : Minnesconsin Joined : 2007-02-08 Post Count : 5127 Merit : 10
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:38 pm | |
| - turtleman wrote:
- I changed mine at about 160k-165k miles in the process or diagnosing a tricky problem I was having. I probably could have gone without doing it but I'm quite glad I did. The tensioner looked like shit and there was slight slack in the chain due to wear. It was enough to have a small effect on low rpm performance in the engine.
I really don't hear of them straight up breaking much so I would say letting it go for now would be ok. If you think you'll be taking it apart some time in the future to do something else like a cam, just wait. If not, I might just do it soon just because you technically should. what TRICKY problem was, that did it ever get found?? | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:59 pm | |
| _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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Jack the R Master
Joined : 2007-01-16 Post Count : 8067 Merit : 105
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:06 pm | |
| When the timing chain went in my Charger it didn't break, but the car would quit when I wanted it to run and run after I shut off the ignition. | |
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turtleman Expert
Name : Codith Age : 37 Location : Villa Park, IL Joined : 2007-02-08 Post Count : 3671 Merit : 140
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:37 pm | |
| - Jack the R wrote:
- When the timing chain went in my Charger it didn't break, but the car would quit when I wanted it to run and run after I shut off the ignition.
One thing to know is that unlike the old charger, our engine has an interference valve train which means if the chain actually does go, say bye to at least 2 of your valves and god can only guess what else. it is possible if you have the luck of a leprechaun to have almost no damage but its also possible to need a new motor. Odds are not favorable enough to take the chance if it's your only car, which is my case. It's not really that hard to change the thing if you have tools and a couple days nor is it overly expensive parts wise. | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:34 am | |
| The odds are also likely that the chain will never break, or at least last to 200k in a modded car. I plan to replace mine something this year. Waiting on a good reason to go in there... _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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TonySmooth89 Aficionado
Name : Anthony Age : 35 Location : Florida Joined : 2007-11-14 Post Count : 2410 Merit : 16
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:47 am | |
| AA...Cam?
While we're on the topic i will never drive a car with a timing belt. I had two friends over the summer who had one go on them and 1 bought a whole new motor and the other needed a top end rebuild. 2 months later my friend who had the top end rebuild had a defective belt and the engine blew out again. I dont trust the timing belts for anything...chains are much more durable... | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:07 pm | |
| No cam. My 1.9 rockers are awesome. They are the INTENSE (Harlan Sharp) Gen IIIs, the same ones that received all the bad press for being defective and dumping metal shavings into the oil. I just passed 75,000 miles with my Gen III rockers installed. Don't believe all the hype! _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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deekster_caddy Master
Name : Derek Age : 52 Location : Reading, MA Joined : 2007-01-31 Post Count : 7717 Merit : 109
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:01 pm | |
| Me too. I've been running the Gen III HS rockers for 75000 miles. Not a single problem. | |
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Eldo Expert
Name : Mark Age : 59 Location : West Salem, Oregon... FINALLY Joined : 2009-04-09 Post Count : 3174 Merit : 104
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:56 am | |
| Interference motor?!?
Is that only with the modifications? | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:01 am | |
| - Quote :
Is that only with the modifications? I deleted previous post. I think it is the interference type, but I'm reading mixed responses on the subject. I really hope I'm wrong and it's non-interference! _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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Rickw Guru
Name : Rick Location : Lancaster, MA Joined : 2008-09-13 Post Count : 6282 Merit : 119
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:33 am | |
| - AA wrote:
- The odds are also likely that the chain will never break, or at least last to 200k in a modded car. I plan to replace mine something this year. Waiting on a good reason to go in there...
I know this was dated early 2008. Procrastination or Procrastination.? | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:37 am | |
| Well, I did buy the chain and sprockets shortly after posting that comment. At least I had good intentions! I probably decided it could wait till 200k, and now I'm finally there, so it really should be done.
Unless we find out it's not an interference engine... _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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turtleman Expert
Name : Codith Age : 37 Location : Villa Park, IL Joined : 2007-02-08 Post Count : 3671 Merit : 140
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:37 pm | |
| - AA wrote:
- Well, I did buy the chain and sprockets shortly after posting that comment. At least I had good intentions! I probably decided it could wait till 200k, and now I'm finally there, so it really should be done.
Unless we find out it's not an interference engine... Random question - are you using stock valvespring retainers or LS1 style retainers? | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:36 pm | |
| They are LS6 retainers. _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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BMD Aficionado
Name : BMD Location : Canada Joined : 2009-04-28 Post Count : 1161 Merit : 36
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:43 pm | |
| When I started reading this thread I got a little worried considering my mileage and I started researching online and so far I found a couple of forums where guys are saying that the 3.8L engine is a free wheeling engine, not an interference engine. They also say that modifications such as changing the valve timing, valve lift or compression ratio can and does turn some non-interference engines into interference engines. Can anyone confirm if our motors in stock from are non-interference or not? | |
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Rickw Guru
Name : Rick Location : Lancaster, MA Joined : 2008-09-13 Post Count : 6282 Merit : 119
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:48 pm | |
| I would like a definitive answer as well. Because i will put in a new chain and tensioner this summer before the winter slows me down. Mainly because I ran the engine for about 7,000 miles with the incorrect valve retainers on it, that supposedly cause premature wear on the tensioner and chain. I now have the LS retainers on which don't pre-load the springs too much.
On older cars with distributors it was so much easier to check your timing chain. Not on this engine. | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:54 pm | |
| I'm thinking the same thing about the interference. They probably made the valves just clear the pistons in a worse case scenario. The 1.9:1 rockers could easily change that formula, as the valves move 20% further to open. I do not wish to find out the hard way! _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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Eldo Expert
Name : Mark Age : 59 Location : West Salem, Oregon... FINALLY Joined : 2009-04-09 Post Count : 3174 Merit : 104
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:14 pm | |
| - AA wrote:
- I'm thinking the same thing about the interference. They probably made the valves just clear the pistons in a worse case scenario. The 1.9:1 rockers could easily change that formula, as the valves move 20% further to open. I do not wish to find out the hard way!
That's what I think... The general consensus on the Web is that the 231/3800 is a non-interference motor, and I think I would probably have heard otherwise over the years if it was. | |
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AA Administrator
Name : Aaron Age : 47 Location : C-bus, Ohio Joined : 2007-01-13 Post Count : 18452 Merit : 252
| Subject: Re: Timing Chain Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:31 pm | |
| Yeah, but we're always finding things out we didn't know, and threads like this one make me wonder some:
http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?2131-Timing-gear-repair-LG3-3-8-SFI-1987-Century _________________ '05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30 3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch^^^ SOLD ^^^ '70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles^^^ SOLD ^^^ | |
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