Name : Location : Finger Lakes of New York State Joined : 2007-05-31Post Count : 8687 Merit : 181
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:44 pm
Hmmm... I don't recall saying quieter, I recall saying less raspy.
Maybe shoulda said more growly.
Rickw spec'd an exhaust a while back that I kind of whish I'd built - teh longest resonator that would fit teamed with a couple decent mufflers, I'm thinking Hooker Maximum Flow - - or SpinTech Cruiser series (made for quiet on the 2+ hour drive)... http://www.spintechmufflers.com/mufflers/street-mufflers/cruiser-mufflers-7000-series/cat_31.html
Glad you're happy with your exhaust!
Albertj
Abaddon Expert
Name : Scott Location : Macomb, Michigan Joined : 2010-02-24Post Count : 4316 Merit : 185
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:19 pm
I was actually looking at Hooker Mufflers. I was also seriously contemplating buying a HushPower too. However, price was in consideration. I watched (listened) to many YouTube videos of the Pypes exhaust. I liked it. I was just flabbergasted at how loud they were (before I bought two more mufflers). I couldn't buy the more expensive mufflers the second time around, cause the Riv account was spent. So I opted for the second pair. With all the money I spent, including installation, I could've bought the better ones......had I only known It definitely doesn't sound like your "typical" 3800. Most of the modded GP's around here are runnin FlowMaster....they all sound the same. It doesn't have that hollow sound anymore either. The 2 SS muffs are Pypes RacePro M80's (as already said). They also make a "full sized" SS RacePro, which I contemplated buying instead. They sound amazing on a new V6 Mustang. But, this is what I'm left with for a while. So...eh. Time to start savin for the engine build.
crlombardi69 Enthusiast
Name : Chris L Age : 55 Location : Metro/Detroit area Joined : 2009-12-31Post Count : 207 Merit : 5
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:09 pm
I think your exhaust system sounds very good. Also these cars have good sound deadening so you don't hear S much inside as say lesser cars would. I don't think that the pype ss muffler are doing very much in the whole scheme of things though. Anyway I like the end result and appreciate you sharing this info b/c it is valuable to us still trying to decide on parts to make up our entire system. Kudos to you Don.
Abaddon Expert
Name : Scott Location : Macomb, Michigan Joined : 2010-02-24Post Count : 4316 Merit : 185
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:43 pm
crlombardi69 wrote:
I think your exhaust system sounds very good. Also these cars have good sound deadening so you don't hear S much inside as say lesser cars would. I don't think that the pype ss muffler are doing very much in the whole scheme of things though. Anyway I like the end result and appreciate you sharing this info b/c it is valuable to us still trying to decide on parts to make up our entire system. Kudos to you Don.
Thx Man!. It's grown on me already
Jason Aficionado
Name : Jason Age : 41 Location : Comox, BC, Canada Joined : 2007-01-23Post Count : 1378 Merit : 66
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:40 pm
Abaddon wrote:
My DynoMax Super Turbo's I had decided to rust through
Dynomax superturbos carry a lifetime warranty
Abaddon Expert
Name : Scott Location : Macomb, Michigan Joined : 2010-02-24Post Count : 4316 Merit : 185
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:47 am
Jason wrote:
Dynomax superturbos carry a lifetime warranty
I wasn't aware of that. Lil late now......thx for the info
Mr.Riviera Expert
Name : Matthew Age : 38 Location : Florida Joined : 2007-01-17Post Count : 4394 Merit : 101
I am looking to redo my cat back on my riv. I have headers and and a 3" pipe in place of the cat, stock from the resonator to the tips. I want flow, but i'm more concerned with how it sounds and losing weight where possible.
I came up with the idea of having a high flow resonator (like the one zzp sells) with 3" inlet and outlet. Followed by ONE round muffler directly behind the res before the Y. Not sure what to chose, but 3" inlet, 2.5" outlet. Then a Y pipe and 2 pipes going around the spare tire and exiting the factory locations.
I want it to be a little louder than stock, but i cant stand drone at any rpm.
Any advice would be appreciated.
_________________ 1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
97 park ave Addict
Name : Tyler Age : 34 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
i have a 3" DP to 2.5" pipe with no resonator, then a Y at the rear wheels and a glasspack on each side. i also have long tips that you would normally see on a truck, i think they have a lot to do with the tone of my car and there not being barely any rasp if at all. i have videos if youd like to hear how it sounds.
Hometown Hero Junkie
Name : Klix Age : 46 Location : Barrhead, Alberta Canada Joined : 2009-11-18Post Count : 807 Merit : 16
Name : Tyler Age : 34 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:24 pm
old clip from last winter, i have to get a new summer/fall one with a fly-by:
you can really hear what it sounds like with some decent headphones
robotennis61 Guru
Name : robotennis Age : 63 Location : las vegas Joined : 2007-12-17Post Count : 5562 Merit : 143
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:34 pm
just to be sure,its a 3800 series2 S/C right? dont sound half bad! where did you get the Y connector? and why would tips affect the sound?
97 park ave Addict
Name : Tyler Age : 34 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:00 pm
robotennis61 wrote:
just to be sure,its a 3800 series2 S/C right? dont sound half bad! where did you get the Y connector? and why would tips affect the sound?
3800 series 2 NON s/c. everything from the cat back is custom from a local exhaust shop. i would imagine he just took a regular Y connector and welded it in. its definitely not something from a parts store, some of the Y's ive seen look more like U's. the Y on my car comes out perfect like a V from the single pipe to the glasspacks. tips affect the sound based on the diameter/length of the tip. think of an organ or a wind chime, the shorter/skinnier tubes make the high pitched tones (rasp when talking about exhaust), while the longer/wider tubes make a deeper tone (what you want to hear with a 3800). i have personally experienced this, i have had regular exhaust with no res, glasspack for a muffler, and no tip. i have also had the same exhaust WITH a short tip. it sounded better/deeper with just the tip change. now that i have full exhaust with really long/wide tips, the tone went way down and the only time i ever get a bit of rasp if any (nothing compared to grand prixs) is at the top of first right before the shift at WOT. my car sounds better nearly straight-piped, than my friends impala and grand prix that only have muffs and tips. i think that might be why i like the 3800 sound so much is because i dont have a raspy w body.
robotennis61 Guru
Name : robotennis Age : 63 Location : las vegas Joined : 2007-12-17Post Count : 5562 Merit : 143
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:13 pm
interesting
97 park ave Addict
Name : Tyler Age : 34 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:06 pm
another thing i found that may affect the sound, is a resonator. i have no resonator, im not sure what this park avenue has for tips but i highly doubt theyre anything like mine (if they are, then the resonator must be affecting the sound/rasp). listen to this exhaust, you would think my car would be way louder/raspier with glasspacks, but its not.
i think it sounds more like a grand prix, it sounds nice down low but so do most grand prixs. the second you get in the higher RPMs it sounds like shit. i have noticed with my current setup and tips there is minimal rasp and i think the tips have a lot to do with the harmonics of the exhaust system. its like any brass horn, if you change the shape/size of the end, it will make a different sound/tone.
robotennis61 Guru
Name : robotennis Age : 63 Location : las vegas Joined : 2007-12-17Post Count : 5562 Merit : 143
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:14 am
if this is true,i could save $s by not replacing my rez with a glasspak,and just cut it out. im going to first install the thrushes and see how it sounds with longer tips...but then again,your car is non S/C wonder if that will change things for me....
Mr.Riviera Expert
Name : Matthew Age : 38 Location : Florida Joined : 2007-01-17Post Count : 4394 Merit : 101
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:38 am
So what kind of noise can i expect with having only 1 muffler in place before the Y split? with the 2" or 2.5" pipes going to the tips increase resonance and sound levels? Thanks for the sound clips so far.
_________________ 1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
97 park ave Addict
Name : Tyler Age : 34 Location : MN Joined : 2009-03-06Post Count : 669 Merit : 21
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:32 pm
robotennis61 wrote:
if this is true,i could save $s by not replacing my rez with a glasspak,and just cut it out. im going to first install the thrushes and see how it sounds with longer tips...but then again,your car is non S/C wonder if that will change things for me....
i dont think the N/A to S/C barrier will make much of a difference if any. i think a bigger difference would be youre series 1 and im series 2, i still think that what i have said so far will apply not only to 3800s but nearly any exhaust system.
Mr.Riviera wrote:
So what kind of noise can i expect with having only 1 muffler in place before the Y split? with the 2" or 2.5" pipes going to the tips increase resonance and sound levels? Thanks for the sound clips so far.
i think that might be where youre problem is if you have rasp, if you think about it the muffler quiets things down a bit. after the muffler on your car the exhaust has time to get loud and rasp again before it gets to whatever tips you have. i think it helps a lot that my car is nearly straight piped even past the Y, then it gets quieted down a bit at the glasspacks and then shoots right into the long tips. i think thats where most GPs and the other park avenue i posted get their rasp, to much sound control with almost no tips. if you look at most w body exhaust, its headers, some sort of res to "quiet it down", then muffs (not glasspacks) and usually right off the muffs is a short tip. my glasspacks are dead center in between the Y and the starting of the tips and even then the tips arent right off of the glasspacks, theres a bit of space. buzz your lips through a paper towel center, now through some 4" PVC, which one is deeper? even more related, and now JUST comparing length, do the same thing with a toilet paper center compared to the longer paper towel center, which one sounds better/deeper?
i also like having 2 muffs after the Y instead of 1 muff before the Y. 1 because im anal about things like that, and 2 because if one side has even the slightest difference from the other it might sound different. with a muff on each side you can be more sure that each tip will be making the same note.
Mr.Riviera Expert
Name : Matthew Age : 38 Location : Florida Joined : 2007-01-17Post Count : 4394 Merit : 101
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:07 pm
i like the idea of loosing the extra weight of a muffler at the back where the car needs to be the lightest. Then pulling more of the weight towards the certer of the car and towards the front.
I guess i will take it to a good exhaust shop and see what they think of my idea.
Anyone know a good quiet round muffler i can use?
_________________ 1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
Rickw Guru
Name : Rick Location : Lancaster, MA Joined : 2008-09-13Post Count : 6282 Merit : 119
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:22 pm
Mr.Riviera wrote:
Anyone know a good quiet round muffler i can use?
That seems to be part of the problem, finding a round muffler that will fit. Any of the name brand muffler and resonator makers that list the sizes of what they make are usually made to make noise and not suppress it so much. Although, I bet you can go to a place like NAPA and look through their catalog and find one of the correct dimensions that is made to fit something else entirely and that would provide the noise suppression along with some back pressure. But, if you look in say, Magnaflows or DynoMax catalog you will find a round muffler/resonator that will fit but will still provide drone.
Back when I was doing research on the exhaust system I took measurements of what would fit and where. Here is what I came up with for sizes and hope this helps in the never ending search for the Ultimate Exhaust System:
Max Resonator is 28" by 7" round.(To fit in the same space as the OEM location with Headers and the 3" downpipe and 3" High Flow Magnaflow Cat Conv installed) There would be potentially more space if your cat has been eliminated, But the 7" round number is a good number and is larger than the stock resonator but will not hang below the lowest point of the under carriage.
Mufflers should be no larger than 20" by 12" (Stock is 15 X 11)
Eldo Expert
Name : Mark Age : 59 Location : West Salem, Oregon... FINALLY Joined : 2009-04-09Post Count : 3176 Merit : 104
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:06 am
Mr.Riviera wrote:
i like the idea of loosing the extra weight of a muffler at the back where the car needs to be the lightest. Then pulling more of the weight towards the certer of the car and towards the front.
Why on earth would you want to lose weight at the rear of a front-wheel-drive car? The majority of the weight is already on the front wheels, which is why our Riv's have aluminum hoods, steel deck-lids. a spare tire as far back as possible and a rear battery the weight of an anchor...
Mr.Riviera Expert
Name : Matthew Age : 38 Location : Florida Joined : 2007-01-17Post Count : 4394 Merit : 101
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:12 am
i want the weight over the drive wheels for traction. the more weight shift to the rear the more i spin. Bottom line though i want to cut weight where possible. A closer 50/50 distribution (having weight in the rear of our cars) is nice for the circuit tracks but most of what i do is in a straight line.
_________________ 1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
robotennis61 Guru
Name : robotennis Age : 63 Location : las vegas Joined : 2007-12-17Post Count : 5562 Merit : 143
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:14 am
go to pegasusracing.com and buy a couple hundred lbs of lead.that will weigh you down. if you want straight line stability,try buying a pair of rubber shims that go through the rear coil springs.that will keep much weight up front.
Eldo Expert
Name : Mark Age : 59 Location : West Salem, Oregon... FINALLY Joined : 2009-04-09Post Count : 3176 Merit : 104
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:25 am
Mr.Riviera wrote:
i want the weight over the drive wheels for traction. the more weight shift to the rear the more i spin.
A closer 50/50 distribution (having weight in the rear of our cars) is nice for the circuit tracks but most of what i do is in a straight line.
Ah, so you're looking for launch over handling - I get it.
As far as Robo's spring suggestion, you could probably rig a couple of switches to jack up the rear end via the Level Ride system...
Mr.Riviera Expert
Name : Matthew Age : 38 Location : Florida Joined : 2007-01-17Post Count : 4394 Merit : 101
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:29 am
I have self fill rear shocks and lowering springs all around alread. The car doesn't squat much, but id still like to lighten the load where posible. No need for 2 mufflers if one will get the job done and still sound good imo.
_________________ 1996 with 254k miles, L32 4" FWI -> ported N* -> Ported Gen V w/3.0" Pulley, Stage 3 Phenolic I/C, ZZP FMHE, 1.84 RR, Headers and 3" pipe to mufflers, F-body brakes, and lowered on Eibachs. -RIP AMG C400 White on black. Stage 2 w/E30 - 11.9@117 -daily
Rickw Guru
Name : Rick Location : Lancaster, MA Joined : 2008-09-13Post Count : 6282 Merit : 119
Subject: Re: FAQ: The Exhaust Thread Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:32 am
Bottom Line, don't try and rationalize an exhaust change with also trying to shift weight in the chassis for basically street use. It's not a drag car otherwise you would have already done many other big dollar mod's other than adding lead to the front, which would be essential. But our ass ends are already light and as Aaron can attest, just adding air to the rear shocks manually for an Autocross event was enough for him to get the stability he needed. If you are serious about 1/4 mile runs there are a lot more things that need to be accomplished on your car first before you consider the few pounds of weight differential due to exhaust systems. Do it for sound or preference but not for outright performance on the drag strip, your not there yet.