Bowers Build Thread

Work sucked today so I took off early and took advantage of a melting snow day. Took the oil pan off and got a couple of different surprises...lol, couldn't help but laugh about it. These are exactly the kind of people that should be forced to drive Geo Metros.

Oil: Chocolate sludge anyone?



Sloppy Rod:

Took the bearing for that rod out and it was definitely spun. Fortunately, the crank is in fairly good shape with just a minor texture to the journal. Since the car has 177k on it, i'll probably still take the crank to the machine shop to have it turned just a bit and replace all the rings at the same time.

Color of the oil and rough idle proves to me that the head gasket is blown which is fine. I'll just replace both head gaskets. Since I'll have the heads off, I'm going to go ahead and do the XP cam and accompanying parts.

Bowersk wrote:

Took the bearing for that rod out and it was definitely spun. Fortunately, the crank is in fairly good shape with just a minor texture to the journal. Since the car has 177k on it, i'll probably still take the crank to the machine shop to have it turned just a bit and replace all the rings at the same time.

Color of the oil and rough idle proves to me that the head gasket is blown which is fine. I'll just replace both head gaskets. Since I'll have the heads off, I'm going to go ahead and do the XP cam and accompanying parts.

just giving you props, that car is going to be a beast when you are done.

Albertj

Man I haven't stopped reading this site for 3 days....i'm tired. $1900 isn't going to be enough money to do what I want to do to this thing.

Again, not to beat the horse some more, but a severly failed LIM gasket will cause exactly what you posted about the "chocolatey" oil. Coolant in the oil......

Yes, replacing all the gaskets is a great idea, but you still haven't answered my "question" about the LIM leaking yet....I NEED TO KNOW DAMMIT!!!

just do the 'need to do' stuff now and bide your time.

Abaddon wrote:

Again, not to beat the horse some more, but a severly failed LIM gasket will cause exactly what you posted about the "chocolatey" oil. Coolant in the oil......

Yes, replacing all the gaskets is a great idea, but you still haven't answered my "question" about the LIM leaking yet....I NEED TO KNOW DAMMIT!!!

lol hold back on that 5 hour energy there man. I think your right. I haven't confirmed yet, but after looking closely and noticing all the black rtv sealent peaking out from beneath the LIM, I am 97% sure the guy I got if from just made his own gasket there.

Bowersk wrote:

lol hold back on that 5 hour energy there man. I think your right. I haven't confirmed yet, but after looking closely and noticing all the black rtv sealent peaking out from beneath the LIM, I am 97% sure the guy I got if from just made his own gasket there.

It's Red Bull, and I've only had 2 today (so far)

A little bit of RTV sticking out at the corners (where the LIM goes from the block to the heads) is ok. You're actually supposed to fill those corners because the LIM set is in 4 pieces. If it's RTV'd down the entire block, then yeah, someone "created" a gasket.

Abaddon wrote:

Bowersk wrote:

lol hold back on that 5 hour energy there man. I think your right. I haven't confirmed yet, but after looking closely and noticing all the black rtv sealent peaking out from beneath the LIM, I am 97% sure the guy I got if from just made his own gasket there.

It's Red Bull, and I've only had 2 today (so far)

A little bit of RTV sticking out at the corners (where the LIM goes from the block to the heads) is ok. You're actually supposed to fill those corners because the LIM set is in 4 pieces. If it's RTV'd down the entire block, then yeah, someone "created" a gasket.

I've seen a couple of pictures with this done (rtv'ing" the corners) but this is not whats going on here. I did give the a piece sticking out at the corners a tug and it doesn't look like its sticking to anything and there is water behind it so...

Thanks for checking on the LIM, I can sleep peacefully tonight....

Well that just plain sucks. With all that Oilant (like that?) in the oil pan, an already messed up bearing, and no way to tell how long that engine has been running in that condition, I'd be extremely hesitant to only fix that one bearing.
Coolant and engine internals don't play well together. That coolant will (if not already) eat the bearings and crap 'em back out. IMO, I'd replace/machine the lower end if you're gonna be in there anyway. Or, just take everything apart and inspect before you replace.

Yeah that's what I was just sitting here thinking. If I'm going to do it I may as well do it right.

I may just yank this damn thing all the way out, COMPLETELY disassemble it and do it right. I have nothing but time as I work from home and this Isn't my primary driver anyways.

OK I have a couple of questions since the stuff I'm reading is kinda dated.

I can pretty much just drop and L32 in here, and just need to get an adapter to fit the L67 Throttle body right? Then what? Just have to use a tuner to get rid of the torque management crap? L67 Tranny bolt right up to it?

What about if I were to get this:
http://stlouis.craigslist.org/pts/2157388884.html

What are the major differences between the 96 and 99 engine? Just need the ecu and wiring harness or what?

Nevermind, going on 4 days of reading and stuff is starting to "fall off the table".

https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t3461-faq-what-are-differences-between-96-and-97-99-sc-rivs#41466

If anyone is still around here. Take a look at this and tell me what you think. Prices for everything are coming from ZZ Performance as every other site seems to be around the same prices.

What pulley size you think I could run:

Rod Bearing set / LIM / SC Gasket / LIM o rings $128.00
180 Degree Thermostat $15.00
104 Autolite plugs $12.00
Cold Air Intake 0
Autotap Scanner $150.00
Supercharger Pulley Puller $109.99
Ssautochrome Headers $350.00
HP Tuners License for this car $100.00
3.x modular Pulley system $100.00
Xp cam, springs, retainers, DR TC $665.00
Valve Locks $25.00
Oe-r 875 lifters $170.00
Cam Install Kit $120.00
Machined Oil Pump cover $55.00
Front cover gasket $9.00
ZZP custom pushrods $116.00
Oil & Filter
Transmission Fluid & Filter
Antifreeze



Total $2,124.99

Also, do you think that will be too much for the current Tranny? The guy I got it from says it was rebuilt about 80K ago.

If you are seriously considering that kind of build, yes you will need tranny work. Also please add the year of your car at minimum to your signature (and enable it in your user preferences). It's important to know for decisions like this.

Also, you will want to skip the autotap scanner if you have an HP Tuners. It's got a good scanner in it too (although autotap is a better scanner...)

Buddy of mine has hp tuners, Im getting the scanner so I can actively scan and learn what the hell he is changing. Currently looking for dhp to have for myself.

still waiting on:

EGR Block off
AutoLite 104 plugs (6)
180 Thermostat
Water pump gasket
Oil pump inlet tube gasket
Oil filter extension gasket
6 injector O-rings
Upper coolant elbow
Lower coolant elbow
Head Bolts
2 SS Band Clamps 2-1/4"
2 SS Band Clamps 3"
SSAC Headers w 3.5" dp
O2 extension cable for the rear O2
3.25" Press on Pulley (Modular System)
NorthStar TB (75mm) with LQ4 MAF
SC pulley Remover
Supercharger Belt (5060695) 69.5"

Should be here soon depending on how much the machine shop ends up charging me.

there is probly noplace else to build this much fun for ~3 grand-ish.

Ahhhhh the single days! Way to go Bowers, can't wait to see how it goes.

BMD wrote:

Ahhhhh the single days! Way to go Bowers, can't wait to see how it goes.

Yeah I miss those days. Married with 3 kids here. Only way I get to play with stuff like this is by selling off other toys. Sold a 93 chevy 4x4 that I semi-restored to fund the riv build.

Cheers man!

(This post was moved from another thread so it is kinda out of context here. I was assisting with another users questions about another 96 build)

I am currently in the same process on my 96 so I'll add my own special observations to the above if that's ok.

DHP Powrtuner. - (Clubgp has a couple for sell now - this is a necessity for tuning - Usually around $300 but your not going to get low to mid 13's without one)

built trans- 4t60's are harder to come by. (I'm spending today researching how to swap the 4t65. As of right now I think you need the trans and pcm from of of the newer rivs and then need to rework the vac ports since the 60 is vaccum controlled and the 65 is electronically controlled)

gen V with 3.2 pulley (M90 swaps take a little bit of ingenuity on the 96's) (I've decided that this isn't really worth it for me unless I put the money into intercooling. You'll gain 20+ hp, but you cant find one for under $500 anywhere. IMO $500 for 20hp is not a worthwhile investment unless your going all out trying to squeeze every bit of power out of the 3800)

VS cam w/105lb springs (This is what I went with because it works with stock heads. Would have went with the slightly more aggressive XP cam if I would have known I was upgrading my entire valve train as well at the time of purchase. Have to have the valve seats cut down a little bit or get the modded valve spring retainers to account for the higher lift or else you'll beat the hell out of your valve seals and leak oil)

headers (I went with SS autochrome headers. They come with 3" down pipe. I am also wrapping mine to keep under hood temps down)

stage 3 I/C (I'm currently debating whether or not I'm going to IC. 40-50 hp for $1000? I think I'll wait and see what I get out of the motor with what I'm going with. If I want more, then I'll go there)

you will also need a bunch of little supporting mods to make that list workable.

In addition I am doing the following supporting mods.
-Northstar throttle body Conversion
-Gutted stock air box (current working on a fiberglass enclosure to pull cold air from below, fender side, and headlight side)
-K&N Air Filter
-Ported sc case inlet to 75mm opening and polished inlet.
-mild cleanup/smoothing of lower intake manifold. Gasket matched and smoothed intake runners.
-Gasket matched Intake ports on heads.
-Polished combustion chamber on heads.
-Comp Cams lifters and push rods (For higher RPM safety)
-EGR delete to keep the supercharger clean. You can also keep the EGR valve, just get the exhaust side block off and allow the EGR to only bring in clean air.
-Cat Delete
-ZZP Modular Pulley system with a 3.25 pulley.
-I decided to replace the timing chain and tensioner because of the stiffer 105# valve springs.
-69.5" Supercharger belt. You can also go with 3.5" tensioner pulley and use stock belt.
-.052 Cometic head gaskets. Thinner so compression is raised just a tad.

I got most of my stuff from zzperformance just to keep everything together. Intense and Wbody store are cheaper on a couple of things, but after shipping and everything else is said and done, I saved money getting everything from one place.

I completely rebuilt a motor out of a GTP and I'm SUPPOSED to be getting everything back from them either today or tomorrow. Going to start the build and hopefully have it done by next weekend so I can get it in. (Motor out of the riv will probably get rebuilt too and end up in a fiero or something)

The thing I think is going to pose a problem is the actual tuning. I've been learning how to use the DHP tuner, but I don't really know what all to change for my mods. Still trying to find someone who already has a bin I can start with.

I'm only shooting for mid 13's. If I get the itch to go faster, then it will be Gen V and IC. Of course, have to have that transmission upgraded before that happens.

I also went ahead and bought an Autotap scanner off of Ebay. I got lucky and got mine for under $50. Also came with the expanded parameters needed to scan for Knock Retard. The basic parameters with autotap do not include KR, but if you find one with just basic parameters its only something like $90 to upgrade. (AFAIK)