FAQ: Aftermarket Lowering Springs

I'm in the camp that believes springs don't need to be replaced from old age, unless they break, sag, or otherwise don't perform (ie. sag or break). What springs do are mainly 2 things: support the car and assist with rebound. Although it's conceivable that as springs age, their spring rate can go down, which affects rebound, this would also affect ride height, so if there's a problem, it should be visible as a sagging front end.

I have another car (1970 Olds Ninety Eight) that is very front heavy. After 35 years, the front end was starting to show sagging, so I replaced the springs. Problem solved. My Riv's ride height on the other hand is still within spec after 14 years, so I'm not worried about it yet. They still support the car, still rebound, and the struts are what actually control the behavior of compression and rebound. With fresh struts, the car rides like new, actually better than new ("like new" really isn't a compliment when it comes to Riv handling. At 25k miles, my Riv porpoised and rolled, and at the time I felt it was completely normal).

From Springworks.com:

There is no standard life expectancy of springs. In general, coil springs on heavier full-sized vehicles tend to last longer than those on smaller light weight applications. To determine when coil springs need to be replaced, have the springs inspected and the vehicle ride height checked by a trained professional.

The most common method of coil spring inspection is checking the vehicle ride height. Measure! Don't rely on eyesight alone! This method will only catch the extreme cases of spring sag or leaning. In addition to checking ride height, look for these signs, which also indicate the coil spring requires attention:

Examine each spring for stress cracks, missing coils, or shiny spots between coils.

Damaged bushings, bump stops, or MacPherson Struts.

Front end of vehicle nose dives when braking or vehicle sway. Spongy ride.

Vehicle that commonly carry extra weight, resulting in unlevel condition most of the time (family transportation, work trucks, and sales fleets).

What this really says to me: replace the struts, shocks and stabilizer links and bushings first. If the car still exhibits bad handling, or sags, it may be time for fresh springs.

Moog on the left Monroe on the right. Moog's radius is slightly shorter. ID? the thickness of the coil is a mm or 2 smaller than the Monroe.

Putting these bad boys on now and then doing the backs with Moogs.

What are the chances of these being Riv compatible?
http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/1109-SSC-Lowering-Springs-3800.aspx

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/211-ZZP-Lowering-Springs.aspx

charlieRobinson wrote:

What are the chances of these being Riv compatible?
http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/1109-SSC-Lowering-Springs-3800.aspx

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/211-ZZP-Lowering-Springs.aspx

Last i checked the W-body suspension was VERY different than the riv's. They have struts in the rear, a much lighter chassis/body and smaller springs in general.

Look for lowering springs that will work on the older STS, park aves, and aurora's.

Quote :

Look for lowering springs that will work on the older STS, park aves, and aurora's.

I can't find anything Those Eibachs are extinct! I am beginning to believe the best solution may be to cut OEM springs or have custom ones made.

Thought I found a set of Eibachs. Gave 360tuners.com $368.81 to ship me a set. 2 weeks later they cancel my order. They have yet to refund my money.

Been talking to a dude over at coilsprings.com and he says he can do:
Front – coil springs - -1.50” trim height & +30% increase in rate
Pricing: $ 218.10 pair
Rear – coil springs - -1.50” trim height & +30% increase in rate
Pricing: $ 205.80 pair

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought I saw on here that these might work? Can someone say for sure if they will work or not?

http://www.rsaperformance.com/cadillac-98-99-seville-stssls-eibach-pro-kit-springs-3872-140.html

Yes, they will. But you wont find them. Any 'e-shop' that says they have them, doesn't.

Custom coil overs may be the ultimate solution. See Robo's thread.

I'm finding that out. I will have to look into that then.

robotennis61 wrote:

@ AA, the Afco chart is a suggested spring rate chart based on vehicle weight(according to them) and performance driving.I've long considered upping the spring rates even before finding the Afco chart.I really have nothing to complain about regarding the stiffness or lack of.Bo over at PSI performance did a double take when i asked him to send me the 450pounders.I have not looked back or doubted once my choice.I love them.If I lived in NYC for example,450pounders might be a little high.But out west they just make sense to me driving on mostly super good infastructure.As far as dividing the Afco suggested spring rate in 2? ya might be rite.I'm keeping my 450pounders.

Stock is 190lbs. Right?

no way! its something stupid like 90 or 130lbs! ridiculo!

OEM front springs are:
free height 14.506" and 5.762" ID, bar diameter is 0.609" with a weight rating of 160lbs per inch.

Robo, if you are so happy about the 450 pounders, I will probably go 350-400ish. Toledo has it's fair share of holes and dips. Although they repaved a good chunk of I-475 with this material i've never seen before. It's amazing to drive on and it ALWAYS looks wet. Reflections everywhere. I really enjoy that part of the highway.


Anyway, yeah, your coilovers are sick, dude. I will do this someday.

"Robo, if you are so gay about the 450 pounders" wait,what?
160lb for front springs is gay.190 or so for the rears is really gay. jus sayin..
btw,OEM springs are the same height and dia for all years.spoke to Moog.only difference between the years is the bolt spacing on the struts.97 and up have their steering knuckle bolt spacing closer together.

I would at least keep the same front to rear spring rate ratio of 160:194 (1:1.21)

What I've been told is high spring rates + weaker sway bars are for smooth track surfaces, lower spring rates + stiffer sway bars are for bumpier tracks. Considering the bumpiest tracks are like the best public roads, and then there is the cratered, cracked surface that we drive on in the midwest.

Very high spring rates = stiffer ride with less grip when it gets bumpy.

Stiffer sway bar set-up = more compliant suspension with less roll in the corners.

It's all about what you want to do. One thing I like about softer springs is knowing the car won't skip off the road as easily in a tight corner over a bumps. I think a little stiffer is fine. Eibach had the right idea with the kit for STS.

all i have to say to anyone who throughout their entire driving history,if they havnt ridden anything but OEM,when they finally get to a ride in a car with race suspension,get ready for a WTF! moment!
even with my suspension spherical race bushings not yet installed,on the basis of just the stiffer springs and Koni race shocks and my adjustable rear RSSA,my car is on the other side of tomorow in terms of its handling.night and day.
i go into freeway corners behind Vettes and hypo Audis and BMWs ,and they all get nervous because the last thing theyre expecting is a 3500 pound Riviera jamming up their ass! yeah yeah,yeah,they dust me in the straights but so fukin what!? if yer crappin in yer pants at the seat of your $80 thousand dollar sports car because yer showin off got you going too hot into a corner and a big fat Riv is cruisin right behind you,so what ya do? ya hit the gas on the straight! big pussy! ill take my Riv anyday over a hot euro or american sports car.why? its all about suspension.if you lose your balls and time in the corners no amount of HP is going to make your day any better.haha!

Would Pontiac Grand Prix GXP springs work on our cars? They came 1-1.5" lowered from the factory and maybe they would give us the ride height we're searching for.

What if Intense or ZZP could come up a spring /coil over solution for our Rivs. Would alls yalls be interested?

Yes

Maybe I'm missing something here... but there is a coil-over solution for the Riv. And at 1200$ its even priced the same as whatever INTENSE(who wouldn't make one, they stopped innovating in the 3800 market ages ago) or ZZP(I also think they wouln't bother for something as obscure and small community as the riv.) could make.

Perhaps I'm the only one who has actually priced out Robo's front and rear coil-over kits, but they are built for the Riv and Robo even has offered to weld up whatever is needed to have something that can just drop in. I mean, I have added cost since I need to convert the front end with new control arms, spindles, and brake hardware...since I'm a 95... but anyone with a 97+ could just drop in the coilovers...

The only reason I haven't pulled the trigger yet on the hardware is its winter, and the car is stored. But come on guys! There IS a kit, and its actually amazing value!

I am underway at the moment, and I message robo regarding his kit. I was going to to the springs he had figured I should go all out. Once he replies on whether or not he has time to do it I'm all in ( surprisingly we have Internet out here lol)

yup.my shit works.ive been riding my coilover set up since sept 12,no problems. i was a little conservative in cutting the new coilover body's down,so i removed them and re-welded new brackets to lower the car a little more.much better.i could still drop the car a little more but i think she's ok considering she's a fat girl.the car corners REALLY flat now.its uncanny.there is NO body roll.The Eibach springs are incredible,or should i say the spring rates are incredible.
But yes,my set up is pretty cheap. and no,no one will offer ANYTHING for the Riv.No electronics.No suspension. No NOTHING. with the exception of Sinister Performance for the Eprom chip on the 95,and some engine parts like Yella Terra & the odd cam.for everything else everyone is S.O.L. gotta make yer own stuff or get the fuck out the way so the big boys can ride on thru! dont go cryin to mommy & daddy come X-mas time for go fast goodies.no no.yuz gotsta makes 'em yer self precious.

Robo do you know the part number for our stock springs by chance?

Rockauto.com will give you every part you need for your car.

I am really looking forward to the next person who converts to coilovers. I will for sure do it someday but it's pretty far out on my mod list right now.

highwaywarrior wrote:

Robo do you know the part number for our stock springs by chance?

nope.

Quote :

Rockauto.com will give you every part you need for your car.

Sometimes. In this case, they show a different part number than OEM. Possibly the old springs were replaced by a new unit, or one that's "close enough".

OEM Front Springs (L/R): 22132791 (95-96)
OEM Front Springs (L/R): 22197216 (97-99)

OEM Rear Springs (L/R): 22078069 (95-99)