FAQ: Aftermarket Lowering Springs

oy vey

Every week we go over the suspension issues of the Riv. And every week no one is any closer to having a suitable perforrmance suspension set up.Am I missing something?

robotennis61 wrote:

Every week we go over the suspension issues of the Riv. And every week no one is any closer to having a suitable perforrmance suspension set up.Am I missing something?

You might not be, but I am! $$$

charlieRobinson wrote:

robotennis61 wrote:

Every week we go over the suspension issues of the Riv. And every week no one is any closer to having a suitable perforrmance suspension set up.Am I missing something?

You might not be, but I am! $$$

Not for nothing but,i skimped and save at the expense of pissing off my gf.Believe me,that costs alot more than $$$
just sock away the duckets.before ya know it youll have enough to put some nice shoes on the old girl.
Engine & ancilarries, primero
suspension, segundo
Rubber, tercero
Paint & body, cuarto
Unforseen,what happens will happen.

Mines more like
Rent
Food
Bills
Riv
Me
Girls

Seldom post but this thread turned funny.
My expenses:
Rent (urban high rise close to work because I am lame driving in Canada snow)
Cats (three older cats = massive vet bills)
Booze (massive due to Canadian taxes)
Cigs (massive due to Canadian taxes)
Cars (Riviera when it comes out of winter storage; Camaro warrenty finished Aug. 2013 so will be eating less).
Food (must eat less due to all the above)
Girl friends / Boy friends (not a factor at my old age)

2 Questions:

If one were to get custom lowering springs made, would it be wise to say that only front springs are needed because the rear can be adjusted if one has air shocks? Or is a full set mandatory?

Next, if a custom front spring set were made to enhance the performance and style of your Riv, would you been interested in a group buy? This would be somewhat of a resurrection of the attempted group buy on the first page of this thread.

I know there is a difference in front springs between the models/years of our Rivs, at least the part number is different, I dont know if anyones confirmed if theyre compatible. This would be for '98+ Rivs. Maybe 97s are good to?

I guarantee they are compatible. they have different part numbers because the shock part numbers are different. call CSS,ask them.they are identicle in every respect except the number. it doesnt matter if you have air shocks or not.a soft spring is still a soft spring.
MY SPRINGS ARE STILL FOR SALE! BUY THEM AND BE HAPPY!!!

and btw as you know, no one showed any interest in the group buy I put together with CSS.
when my set came in I was certain CSS did not take the 1 inch that I asked them to.They did in fact manufacture the springs minus 1 inch. but still,no body showed interest in buying springs. Or shocks or struts let alone coil-overs.except Karma.if you doubt me,go and measure your springs or go to the store and measure,send me the measurements,and ill take a pic of my CSS springs with a nice little ruler rite beside it.and the diameter.
if you want better suspension you just have to go my route or figure something out for yourself.no body is going to play ball with you. forget it! going the custom route is way beyond the average tinkerer.it involves welding and fabricating and most wont go there. Its a learning curve and no doubt about it. save your breath Charlie. If you really want super suspension all the part numbers and absolutely everything you need minus the welder is found in my coil-over thread.

Robo, what springs are you selling?

im just trying to drop my car an inch and firm it up a bit for ~$250. Not looking to drop $1.2k on the coilover rig.

69GSColorado wrote:

Robo, what springs are you selling?

Im selling a set F/R, springs custom made for the Riv.they will fit all years from 95 to 99.
199 spring rate for the front 250 spring rate for the rear.much stiffer. vs 148 front 195 rear for OEM.
$150 + shipping.

charlieRobinson wrote:

im just trying to drop my car an inch and firm it up a bit for ~$250. Not looking to drop $1.2k on the coilover rig.

the problem with trying to drop the Riv is,you cannot cut the OEM springs.the pig tail style spring in the rear cannot be modified.the front cannot be modified either because of how it sits in the upper strut mount.

robotennis61 wrote:

charlieRobinson wrote:

im just trying to drop my car an inch and firm it up a bit for ~$250. Not looking to drop $1.2k on the coilover rig.

the problem with trying to drop the Riv is,you cannot cut the OEM springs.the pig tail style spring in the rear cannot be modified.the front cannot be modified either because of how it sits in the upper strut mount.

No intention of cutting anything, bro. Either waiting for a pair of Eibachs to magically appear or I'm ordering a custom set. It's gonna be one or the other before I do a coilover set up. I just got in the game, robo. You're always giving me a hard time and I'm like a 1 year noob. Pick on AA or something, ok?

charlieRobinson wrote:

robotennis61 wrote:

charlieRobinson wrote:

im just trying to drop my car an inch and firm it up a bit for ~$250. Not looking to drop $1.2k on the coilover rig.

the problem with trying to drop the Riv is,you cannot cut the OEM springs.the pig tail style spring in the rear cannot be modified.the front cannot be modified either because of how it sits in the upper strut mount.

No intention of cutting anything, bro. Either waiting for a pair of Eibachs to magically appear or I'm ordering a custom set. It's gonna be one or the other before I do a coilover set up. I just got in the game, robo. You're always giving me a hard time and I'm like a 1 year noob. Pick on AA or something, ok?

Its just that you rehash the same question every other week worded differently but are no closer to getting a set of springs?! Im amazed! But I love you Charlie,you da man!

ps,my springs will fit your Riv just fine! really..

Just out if curiosity, how do your custom made spring rates compare to the STS specs? Is that what you used as a basis?

robotennis61 wrote:

69GSColorado wrote:

Robo, what springs are you selling?

Im selling a set F/R, springs custom made for the Riv.they will fit all years from 95 to 99.
199 spring rate for the front 250 spring rate for the rear.much stiffer. vs 148 front 195 rear for OEM.
$150 + shipping.

I know things like this are hard to quantify, especially descriptively, but how would you describe the ride with these new springs? Is it bouncy and harsh like a lot of the lowering/spring kits one sees on the small imports, or is the ride quality still preserved but just handles firmer to some degree?

For example, I changed out the soft "Dynaride" suspension on my 95 Roadmaster to Impala SS sway bars, Monroe Severe Service (police/cab) shocks, and HD/Police springs. I was a bit worried that the ride would be harsh. It really didn't change the cruising or minor bump feel of the car at all though, but you could definitely tell it firmed it up and stabilized the car in the corners. It was a definite positive.

Is the set you have for sale the set you were testing from CSS that were 1" higher in the front, or is this something else?

Thanks,
Al

To a Moog tech:
Hi there, can you please confirm whether the front coild spring you make for the 95 Riviera will fit the 99 Riviera? You list the fronts as different part numbers and the rears the same. Thank you!

Front for '99
MOOG Part # 60230
Rear
MOOG Part # 80659

Front for '95
MOOG Part # 81038
Rear
MOOG Part # 80659

From a Moog tech:
Hello,

According to the manufacturer, the Rear coil springs are the same for the 95 and the 99. However the front springs are different. The part numbers you have are correct.

Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with.
-Drew Taylor

Sorry, Robo! I gotta get my own made!
Now back to my question, who is up for a group buy for 98+ lowering springs?

If/when I get new springs, this will likely be what I get. I'm in the CharlieRobinson camp, looking for a slight drop with firmer rate, but still lets me keep the KYBs.

Hello Aaron,
1998 Buick Riviera
Front – coil springs - -.500” trim height & +30% rate increase
Pricing: $ 198.60 pair
Rear – coil springs - -.500” trim height & +20% rate increase & +100# trailer tongue weight
Pricing: $ 192.40 pair
Thank you and I await your response to proceed.
Kevin
Coil Spring Specialties

You only want to drop half an inch? I am thinking 1-1.5 inches for my set up. Mainly in the front. I might do a 1" in the front and a half in the back. Why did you decide on those rate increases?

Robo, did you not increase your rate by like 4000%? or something huge?

charlieRobinson wrote:

You only want to drop half an inch? I am thinking 1-1.5 inches for my set up. Mainly in the front. I might do a 1" in the front and a half in the back. Why did you decide on those rate increases?

Robo, did you not increase your rate by like 4000%? or something huge?

I'm in an entirely different league now. It's not even the "better sprung league" now,it's like "Holy shit Batman!My shit is f./.,.n super sprung!" league.like that.
but to calculate % rates,I dont know? I'm running 450 lbs in the front and 250lbs in the rear.how do you calculate that? I'm sorry,hadta drop outa school...impregnation of the GF and what not...

...just a word to those who are talking to Kevin(nice guy) over at CSS regarding spring rates.You MUST match spring rates to a set of shocks/struts that can handle the extra rates of the spring.what that means is,a performance spring will over power a stock style strut/shock.Especially in Rebound.the weight of the car will compress the spring as it wants to do by the sheer mass,Riviera heavy car,and will jackhammer up!every time! The front end will shoot up like a soda pop rocket! whoosh! according to the experts anyway. If one wants to find out about shock/strut selection and spring rates,Call Bo over at PSI performance.com. this guy no's his stuff.He'll advise you on suspension matters.dont take my word for it.

al_roethlisberger wrote:

robotennis61 wrote:

69GSColorado wrote:

Robo, what springs are you selling?

Im selling a set F/R, springs custom made for the Riv.they will fit all years from 95 to 99.
199 spring rate for the front 250 spring rate for the rear.much stiffer. vs 148 front 195 rear for OEM.
$150 + shipping.

I know things like this are hard to quantify, especially descriptively, but how would you describe the ride with these new springs? Is it bouncy and harsh like a lot of the lowering/spring kits one sees on the small imports, or is the ride quality still preserved but just handles firmer to some degree?

For example, I changed out the soft "Dynaride" suspension on my 95 Roadmaster to Impala SS sway bars, Monroe Severe Service (police/cab) shocks, and HD/Police springs. I was a bit worried that the ride would be harsh. It really didn't change the cruising or minor bump feel of the car at all though, but you could definitely tell it firmed it up and stabilized the car in the corners. It was a definite positive.

Is the set you have for sale the set you were testing from CSS that were 1" higher in the front, or is this something else?

Thanks,
Al

I originally thought they were higher! It looked that way anyway.I called Kevin at CSS and he explained that they needed to settle.I did not understand this at the time.They did settle but not before my confusion set in.Im like that.Any way they ride great.A little harsher but not far from OEM in terms of comfort.

Quote :

You only want to drop half an inch? I am thinking 1-1.5 inches for my set up. Mainly in the front. I might do a 1" in the front and a half in the back. Why did you decide on those rate increases?

.50" is close to my current 14-yr-old OEM ride height (I drive in the city, up steep drives, ramps in garages); it's perfect right now. Also, I detest the look of uneven wheel openings. 1"+ starts to make the tops of the wheels closer to the fender than the front & rear edges.

I described my goals to Keven at CSS and let him pick the spring rates. I had in mind a 50% increase, but that was purely based on gut - a dangerous way to pick springs. I think his recommended 30% is more in line with what I want. If much higher, the KYBs won't handle the added movement (higher rates = faster compress/rebound oscillation). In short, the struts can wear out or blow. We've seen this happen on one Riv with the Eibach STS lowered springs.

The other reason I don't want to drop more than .50" is because the CV axles were designed to drive the wheels at OEM ride height, not 1-2" lower than OEM. I learned from a 3800 parts supplier that GTPs with lowered suspensions tend to eat through CV joints, because they weren't engineered to transmit torque at the resulting angle.

Archive this info for our records..

Here are the rates for the STS Eibach set:

3872.140:

3872.001 11.8 Free Length 6.06 Inside Diameter 171-217 lbs./in Progressive (Front)

3872.002 10.45 Free Length 5.5 Inside Diameter 137-228 lbs./in Progressive (Rear)

I am sure custom coil springs can duplicate this.