FAQ: Automatic Leveling Control (ALC) Concerns

I'm willing to be overruled on this, but I would think that even a normal gas shock would have the same problem of shorter life. Its never going to be in its optimum range. A variable rate non-adjustable shock would be even worse because they are designed to work at a certain ride height, any different and it will change the characteristics of the shocks. The solution is to have a custom built shock with a shorter shaft allowing less travel. You'd need to find a company willing to do it (there are some out there, can't think of one off hand) and be able to give them all the info they'd need, ie height, travel lenth, car weight, valve rate, spring rate, ect. Not easy or cheap but doable

J. Chris Davis wrote:

Would going with regular gas shocks be a better choice for this situation?

Probably not. I seriously doubt that resetting the control lever would be a problem at all. I suspect the instructions for your Eibach (if thats what you got) lowering springs probably said you had to do this reset in the fine print somewheres.

The Monroe MA-822 description does not claim that they are position sensitive:

MONROE MAX-AIR SHOCK ABSORBERS, SET OF 2 -- 24.38 in. extended length; 14.5 in. compressed length; With stem upper mount and cross-pin lower mount; Includes air fittings; Does not include air line and air valve kit; These nitrogen gas-charged, twin-tube shocks can maintain ride height when up to 1,200 lbs. of additional weight is loaded, making these ideal for vehicles that haul heavy loads or tow trailers; Features all weather fluid containing special modifiers for reduced friction and smooth rod reaction, full displaced valving for better valving range on both compression and extension for a smooth and comfortable ride, sintered iron piston that is stronger than traditional metals to enhance durability, lubricated air sleeve to reduce friction and provide smoother operation during suspension movement, special air fitting to resist air leakage, 0.5 in. hardened and precision ground piston rod for consistent performance and long service life, and large volume air chamber that can inflate up to 150 psi with loaded vehicle and deflates for normal driving.

(source - http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/performance_sm/monroe~struts~performance.html, today)

If your currently-installed shocks are worn or not holding air if I were you I'd reset the level control to the right height then install the KYB replacements.

The Monroe self-load-adjusting replacements (no air connection at all) **DO** have position-sensitive damping.

The Monroe® Sensa-Trac® load adjusting shock absorber with PSD (position sensitive damping) and the Safe Tech™ system combines our exclusive precision tapered grooves in the pressure tube with application engineered valving and Fluon banded piston to improve the ride, handling, and safety characteristics of the vehicle.

(source - http://www.monroe.com/products/Sensa-Trac, today)

I wonder if they are basically Nivomats with progressive assist springs but I really don't know.

Thinking out loud so to speak, Gabriels with VST ought to work fine in this application, they are intentionally not position sensitive by design.

What I would do (for what it's worth)

- if I have a different vehicle for hauling passengers around or taking family/highway trips, I'd consider converting the Riv to Bilsteins and having a set of progressive springs wound -- get rid of the air ride. Bilstein makes an outstanding monotube gascharged shock. I put them on an Audi I used to own, 2-stepped them from Europe so as to get the ones valved for there rather than for US (too soft IMHO). This would be only if the Riv was strictly a personal recreational car. Ride height then would be defined by the new springs.
- if I want to be able to use the Riv for occasional or even frequent trips with any additional passengers, or 2 passengers and luggage, or to haul occasional loads (bags of water softener salt or what have you) then I'd keep the air-ride and install KYB, OE or Monroe replacement shocks. It is a 45-minute job startup to cleanup. You can reset the ride height but getting the camber right will be a custom-parts-faricatino headache at best, I wouldn't bother.
- what I have on my car: I am on my 3rd set of OE air shocks. First set of replacements came from GMPD, second set from rockauto.com. If/when I need to replace the current set I plan to get KYBs and definitely keep the air ride. If I can find one or disassemble/recharge it I plan to replace/refresh the dryer. I can get the dessicant on eBay but don't know any more.

Has anyone done the Monroe coil conversion for the back shocks to eliminate the air pump?? I was wondering is this would be a viable way to save a little weight and reduce the possibility or future failure of the pump. also, how does one go about lowering these cars? I tried to look in the write-up section and have not found much.

GreenMonster wrote:

Has anyone done the Monroe coil conversion for the back shocks to eliminate the air pump?? I was wondering is this would be a viable way to save a little weight and reduce the possibility or future failure of the pump. also, how does one go about lowering these cars? I tried to look in the write-up section and have not found much.

There is no adjustment for camber at the rear. If you lower the back of the car below the stock ride height, the rear tire camber will go negative.

When I bought my Riviera, the ALC was non functional, and the back of the car was very low. One of my friends who was following me one day, noticed the rear tire camber and told me about it. When I brought it in for an alignment, I was told there was no adjustment. We were able to lift the back of the car while it was on the alignment rack, and see the camber change. I followed the diagnostic in my FSM, and found a broken wire between the back seat relay, and the level sensor. Ran a new wire and the ALC works to this day 7 years later. It's a pretty good system. If yours isn't broken, I wouldn't try to fix it.

The pump is working fine however the suspension is getting extremely soggy, and the air pump seems likes its on alot more than it needs to be so I assume the rear shocks are leaking. I guess I'll just replace the struts and shocks with new units and just call it a day.

New shocks will firm things up, but if the pump is on a lot, there's probably a leak. My pump burned out shortly after I noticed it was on a lot. A $15 air line kit was the option I chose - replaces the pump and lets you manually fill with air to set the level of the rear.

GreenMonster wrote:

The pump is working fine however the suspension is getting extremely soggy, and the air pump seems likes its on alot more than it needs to be so I assume the rear shocks are leaking. I guess I'll just replace the struts and shocks with new units and just call it a day.

Not sure what "soggy" is, but yeah, I would replace the shocks and/or check the lines. If the compressor runs a lot, there is a leak somewhere.

Is there a writeup here for the part Aaron mentioned above and how to set the level of the rear? I might be dabbling in some interesting things soon.

good info here. what about installing the coil conversion to eliminate the pump all together?? I can imagine the pump and system weighs a good amount.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Conversion-Kit-Monroe_10020739-P_2553_R|GRPCHASAMS_1527370456____

Actually you'd be surprised, I just pulled the pump assembly out and its fairly small for what it does and it doesn't weigh very much. I'd estimate between 5-10 lbs. The air shocks are a bit bulky, but I imagine that a shock with a helper spring wound around it wouldn't be much lighter if at all. If you're looking to shave every pound then I understand but a riv isn't exactly a lite weight and likely never will be.

I actually prefer having extra weight in the rear. It keeps the car a bit more neutral in hard cornering situations. Buick obviously thought about this, but still the car ended up front heavy. I decided to keep the faux dual exhaust system & spare tire, added a trailer hitch, installed a subwoofer enclosure in the trunk, and would have retained the ALC pump if it hadn't burned out - all with some consideration for more evenly distributed weight balance.

Some would say adding weight to the car slows it down. I would argue that adding power & torque more than makes up for it. A few strategically placed pounds in the rear isn't going to hurt acceleration that much, and it may help to add a bit of oversteer, something not typically seen in a heavy FWD car.

I have a full front/rear KYB suspension upgrade on order with MOOG springs included. NO ONE has a GM factory air line kit that I've been able to determine so far. Kit has been discontinued by GM, dealers don't have them. Checked a couple of the big GM parts houses, no dice. I know it's just air line, anyone have suggestions for sources, or should I avail myself of the McMaster-Carr catalog? (If you've never seen one, check out their website.)

There's a problem with the rear shocks on my riv I believe. When im going down the road, the back end will kind of bounce up and down, not a lot but it is definitely noticeable and has been pointed out to me before. Also, the motor for the air ride turns on a lot more than it is supposed to it seems. Can someone verify that the problem is the rear shocks? or is it something else?

Definitely sounds like the rear shocks. Either one of both is leaking pretty bad. Since you know your air pump is running a LOT, do yourself a HUGE favor and unplug the fuse for the ELC pump. That way it won't keep running and burn your pump out - then you can get yourself some nice new shocks and plug 'er back in.

yur better off geting rid of the OEM air ride.It's just a failure ready to happen.

http://www.strutmasters.com/Buick-Riviera-Air-Suspension-Rear-Conversion-Kit-p/-cad-r1-br.htm

robotennis61 wrote:

yur better off geting rid of the OEM air ride.It's just a failure ready to happen.

http://www.strutmasters.com/Buick-Riviera-Air-Suspension-Rear-Conversion-Kit-p/-cad-r1-br.htm

if the compressor is working and you have a bum shock, just get a pair of MA-822 shocks or some such and install them. You can find them for well under $100 pair (rockauto.com). If you look using the search function at Robotennis' earlier posts, you will see he does not use his car for variable duty (no passengers/luggage). If you do, you're better off *with* the air ride and fixing it by the way is cheaper than installing the strutmasters kit.

Albertj

Wow, does that Strutmasters deal really cost $277 + shipping? Why? Just buy a pair of MaxAir replacements from Rockauto for $56 (see discount code here: https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t8972-rockauto-introduction-discount-code) and be done with it! Keep the ALC pump, or if you need to bypass the pump, buy a manual air fill kit for $10-15 and keep using the MaxAir shocks. You can add or remove air to adjust he ride height to your needs. These shocks will last you at least 100k miles, probably more.

@ AJ.yeah but theyre so kool!

@ AA.Yeah but theyre so cool!

There are schools of thought and opinion out there that say a coil over set up,not necessarily an adjustable set up,act quicker on the suspension than say a set up where the shocks & springs are independent of each other like the Rivs.I am of that opinion.Whats my opinion? not much.But I can say,if you remove a stress point on a control arm,that has two stress points,and combine shock and spring,making it one unit.your suspension will work better.Is this a proven set up?maybe.But I can feel the difference between the two.And I like the coil over set up much better.An adjustable coil over setup thrice as much.

I see your point robo, but these guys at Strutmasters are selling their product based on an idea that dealerships are out to rip off their customers, and we will save us "thousands" of dollars, and days of rental car fees by using coil-overs, and that's simply not true. They are making the ALC system seem overly complex, using miles of air tubing, and some kind of "computer" - when it's actually very simple, quite reliable, and inexpensive to fix. Maybe Cadi and Lincoln owners would see some savings, but Rivieras use a different set-up. The shocks can be done in about an hour's time, even by a home mechanic, for about 1/4 the price.

AA wrote:

Wow, does that Strutmasters deal really cost $277 + shipping? Why? Just buy a pair of MaxAir replacements from Rockauto for $56 (see discount code here: https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t8972-rockauto-introduction-discount-code) and be done with it! Keep the ALC pump, or if you need to bypass the pump, buy a manual air fill kit for $10-15 and keep using the MaxAir shocks. You can add or remove air to adjust he ride height to your needs. These shocks will last you at least 100k miles, probably more.

Yeah... Strutmasters can get a lot because for some reason I don't get, some GM dealers' standard charge for this job exceeds $1,000. For that kind of money I think it assumes they R&R the compressor, lines and shocks IIRC. Issue is, I don't know of **anyone** with a maintained Riv who has had to do all that. Including me, I am on my third set of OE air shocks.

If you don't let the compressor burn out, you can fix the air ride with a pair of new shocks and hey, if you're so inclined you can replace the shocks in the driveway without even jacking the car up. The only thing is, and this is minor, you might want to get a new pair of Speednuts for the shocks (4 total) because on the older ones the old speednuts tend to rust, and if they are far enough gone they snap in 2 when you disassemble.

Fyi robo that link you provided is for 86-93 rivs. If you thought $277 was bad, the actual price for 95 and up is $289. And yeah the site seems like a bunch of bs. Quoting $500-$1000 for replacement air shocks is a bad joke and is only designed to scare ppl into buying their product.

@ Derek,Yeah but theyre so cool!

if you are hellbent on removing the spring and air ride then rockauto also sells a monroe "conversion kit" for $112.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1022038,parttype,13000


I installed them on a friends 97riv and they work well. A tad bit too high for me but a stock height looks too high to me anymore.

those are cool!

My 2 cents is that the rear springs in my '97 Rivi are waaay stiffer than the one's in my previous Eldorado... The Cad needed the Level Ride to keep up with the cushy springs, while the pump on my Riv seldom does anything if I'm not hauling sacks of concrete.

Having said that, I believe in keeping things stock within reason, and I seem to remember someone (quite possibly AA) listing aftermarket air shocks that had the same quick-snap connectors as the Delco units - for much less money...