Subwoofers, Speakers & Amps

Ok, I see what you're after. My advice: take a serious look at the JL Audio JX500/1 mono block. It's available for $250 new if you look around, or a used ebay sale could be out there. JL knows what's needed to power subs - you even get a built-in variable low pass to set the cut-off. High-level inputs to tap in from the rear 6x9"s. And you'll actually get a true 500W RMS if you create a 2 ohm load with your subs (single DVC sub, or two 4 ohm subs). It makes 340W into the standard 4 ohm load, not too shabby. Link:

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=607

Maybe look around and see if any other brands can match the JX500/1's performance specs for the money. Could be some other options out there.

As for subs, you can't go wrong with two JL 12" W1v2s ($160), or two 10" W3v3s ($260), or a single 12" W6v2 ($300) if you can afford it. Believe it or not, each of these combos will sound very much the same - you are paying for the space-saving that comes with using smaller & fewer drivers to accomplish the same job. I'm really not trying to push JL as the only option, but I've used their products a while back and was very happy. Since then, they have upgraded their line to include items with lots of bang for the buck. Shop around, but you cannot go wrong with this brand. The speakers at least are still produced in the US.

AA wrote:

Ok, I see what you're after. My advice: take a serious look at the JL Audio JX500/1 mono block. It's available for $250 new if you look around, or a used ebay sale could be out there. JL knows what's needed to power subs - you even get a built-in variable low pass to set the cut-off. High-level inputs to tap in from the rear 6x9"s. And you'll actually get a true 500W RMS if you create a 2 ohm load with your subs (single DVC sub, or two 4 ohm subs). It makes 340W into the standard 4 ohm load, not too shabby. Link:

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=607

Maybe look around and see if any other brands can match the JX500/1's performance specs for the money. Could be some other options out there.

As for subs, you can't go wrong with two JL 12" W1v2s ($160), or two 10" W3v3s ($260), or a single 12" W6v2 ($300) if you can afford it. Believe it or not, each of these combos will sound very much the same - you are paying for the space-saving that comes with using smaller & fewer drivers to accomplish the same job. I'm really not trying to push JL as the only option, but I've used their products a while back and was very happy. Since then, they have upgraded their line to include items with lots of bang for the buck. Shop around, but you cannot go wrong with this brand. The speakers at least are still produced in the US.

250 for an amplifier seems like a little to much over the budget if I include box & wiring. Plus I noticed that you said 500 RMS, and that sounds fantastic but the kickers I picked out only have a RMS rating of 400W. Could you give me like a total price range for everything to be JL with the two 10" W3v3s? then on top of that the wiring, I can order a sealed box myself.

You'll be fine running 500W to the kickers. They are 400W each, so their combined RMS rating is 800W total. If you plan to run a JX500/1 amp with two subs, be sure you buy the CompVRs with dual 2 ohm coils (they also make a dual 4 ohm version). If you only plan to use one sub, then get the dual 4 ohm version. This is important to get a full 500W from the amp - remember it's the speakers' coils (ohms) that determines how much power you can get from the amp.

Two 10" W3v3s new + a new JX500/1 should be about $510 + shipping if you dig around. The W3s cost more than the Comp VRs, but they are more robust subs. They're take more power and deeper bass and still keep it together, where the CompVRs will reach their limit earlier. I have not owned either model, but the specs show that the W3s are both more efficient and have a higher power rating than the CompVRs.

Power cables won't be that much. The run is short from the trunk to the rear seat. 4 gauge should do fine ($1/ft). You'll need an inline fuse at the battery ($15). You won't need RCA patch cables. You can run a small remote wire from the antenna for amp turn-on (cheap). Heavier lamp cord ($.20/ft) from a home depot will work great as speaker wire. Total you'll only spent about $20-25 on all this stuff.

That'd be perfect then... can I get link to the 10" JL's? It'd come out to be around $580 for everything including the box, which I'm sure I'll be able to handle.

Now that I've gathered up what I'm going to buy for my system, I want to know about getting a aftermarket head unit, is it worth getting one installed? Or would the difference be little?

Another thing would be is it difficult to take apart the dashboard in order to take out the factory headset already in it?

With your budget, I don't think the head would make that big a difference. Our stock head has a decent sound, and yes it's a PITA to install a new one. A much better investment IMO is a pair of good front door speakers and a small amp. If you search this forum, you'll find threads on installing a head, and one with focus on creating a system using the factory head.

Running two 10" W3v3s, you'll want the 4 ohm single coil versions:

http://www.amazon.com/JL-Audio-10W3v3-4-Single-Subwoofer/dp/B00161382E/ref=pd_cp_e_1

Expect to add some shipping on top. ^^^ Should come out around $300 for the pair.

If you don't want to spend that much, you can buy used on eBay. A quick search shows a pair of 12W3v3 for $275+$30 shipping. I'm sure there are 10"s on there from time to time.

Is it absolutely necessary to have a separate amp for your sub? the guys over at crutchfield say it is. How bad will the sub perform? I'm not a total audiophile,but I am looking for good sound.

You can get by no problem with a good quality 4 channel. Just make sure it has a good 24db crossover. You can run it in a 3 channel mode bridging 2 channels to the woofer and running the other 2 channels in stereo to whatever components you may have.

dude, if your looking for good sound i would go with a mono amp for your sub, this is a class d amp and will draw less power. Then you can choose a kick ass 4 channel amp for your front and rears. Or if you really kick ass sound, go with a 2 channel in the front and some really good speakers up there. this is what you will hear the most is the fronts. Bro if i would do my system over again, i would go with the mono sub amp, component speakers in the front with the best 2 channel amp i could afford and leave the rears alone.

Interesting ideas guy's!

To expand on the 4 channel idea above. You bridge 2 channels to power the sub, use the other two channels to power the front components and then use the amp in the head unit to power the rears. i did this in phase one of my stereo journey.

You might look into to a used 5-channel amp like an Alpine MRV-F450. Current models are an Alpine PDX-5 or JL HD900-5

I would have recomended seperate amps as well, but like your question states "is it absolutely necessary?" The answer is most definately... No, it is not "necessary". To quote Patches Ohulahan "Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine? Of course not! But it's sterile, and I like the taste!" At the end of the day its your call to make.

If you want good sound, just make sure the amp is of good quality. Heck go on ebay there is a Pheonix Gold ZX450 4 channel on there for like $250 (seller Evanb) I have bought from Evan before outside Ebay and he is top notch, so is the equipment he sells. The ZX series by Phoenix Gold were their best class AB amplifiers ever released when it comes to SQ. No corners were cut building those amps. They later went to the Titanium line up, which contained alot less gold circuitry. I'm an AB guy myself, I just pulled a D class out of my Riv and replaced it with an AB class. The RF Power 1100a2 AB amp is hands down better SQ, only issues you have is efficiency/heat which is managable. Alot of D class amps are more made to produce SPL not SQ, so you will find most of the larger D class produce a THD of 10% or more. Where as a good quality AB of the same size chimes in at 0.02-0.05%. Alot believe that you can't hear distortion in your car because of wind and road noise, but guess what your not always going to be driving 70mph down the highway. Sometimes you pop your trunk at the lake with the crew, listen to tunes and enjoy the day. You will hear that extra 9.95% at those times. If you got a budget or even just wanna save the space, buy a 4 channel and be done with it.

Here is the link for the ZX450 (food 4 thought):
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260746047469

Looks like it may have sold...

NOT necessary to have a dedicated sub amp. There are several amps on the market with dedicated sub channels built into multi-channel amplifiers. It's actually preferred by many to use a single amp to power the system, because you'll have fewer connections, fewer grounds, and less chance for interference.

The questions you want to ask, the ones that really makes a difference, are: Should you use passive amplification vs. active amplification?, and: How many channels do you need? These are sometimes confused with the question of having single vs. multiple amps, and may be why the Crutchfield rep told you what he did.

Passive: each amplifier channel feeds a passive filter (dividing) network to power all speakers in the system. The filters are made of capacitors and coils, and send correct frequencies to tweeters, midranges, and (sub)woofers. Passive filters are installed after the amplifier and before speakers. Typically, a 2 or 4 channel amp can power an entire system.

Active: also called "bi-amplifed", each amplifier channel is pre-filtered, and each feeds its own individual speaker. Active filters are low-level, electronically processed before the amplifier stage, so there's a direct link between amplifier channels and speakers. Typically, 5-8 channels are used to power a purely active set-up.



Nowadays, passive filters are only used in home audio cabinets, or in the supplied crossover boxes that come with component and some coaxial speakers for car audio. The sub channel is almost always on a dedicated active channel. This is so you can better tune/blend the bass levels with the rest of the system. Also, newer Class-D amps tend to be more efficient, so some people like combining Class A/B (high quality for highs/mids) with Class-D (more efficient power for subs), resulting in having two amps.

Can you use passive and active together? Yes! Most systems employ this kind of hybrid set-up. It's common to see active filters on front/rear drivers, while active filtering and amplification is used for the sub. This can be achieved by using a separate mono sub amp, or a consolidated 3-channel or 5-channel amp. It makes no difference, accept how you go about planning and installing your system. A single amp ca make the job much easier to tune and install. BTW, you can bridge channels of a 4-channel amp to make a 3-channel, or a 6-channel can be bridged to make a 5-channel.

thought this package looks good.not too expensive . gotta be better than oem.
Name & Description Price Quantity Total
Subtotal: $434.94

065GTA504
Boston Acoustics GTA-504

4-channel car amplifier — 50 watts RMS x 4
$124.99

777B12
Sound Ordnance™ B-12

Ported enclosure with one 12" subwoofer
$89.99



1301200MP
Pioneer DEH-1200MP
CD receiver
$69.99

575R1T Rockford Fosgate Prime R1T-S
1" Mylar balanced dome tweeters
$49.

113KFC1362
Kenwood KFC-1362S
5-1/4" 3-way car speakers


$49.99
113KFC1662 Kenwood KFC-1662S

6-1/2" 3-way car speakers — also fit 6-3/4" openings
$49.99

Only downside I see to that setup is the 12db crossover on the amp. Aside from that Boston Acoustic is a very good audio manufacturer thats been around a long time. I have owned a multitude of Boston Acoustic speakers, but never a BA amp. Some people are fine with the 12db crossovers, its all up to the listener.

I think for my tastes this package will do the trick. I dig my music,but I cant see spending alot more than this. looking into the crutchfield catalogue,man! you can spend a small fortune in no time at all!!

Whatever workz for ya. I was just looking at amp alternatives and they all seem to be about $100 more than the BA. My suggestion would be a Kicker ZX650.4, but like you say if it workz for you, then go with your plan. You only have to please yourself, and the system you chose will be far better than the stock system or anything you may have now.

The 12 dB/oct filters will work. You will need to tune it differently than the steeper filters. First use the high-pass filter to find the lower end limit of your midrange speakers without playing the sub. Then connect the sub and tune the low-pass to a slightly lower frequency, so there's a gap between them. Example, if you set the high-pass to 150Hz-up, try setting the sub at 80Hz-down. That way there will be less overlap, so it won't create a bass hump and sound muddy.

I think that setup will work for you, great price good products. The only thing i can add is, that subs like power, and 100w to a 12'sub is'nt really alot. You can do more damage to the sub by under powering than over powering it. thats a big sub and should see about 250 or so. Not saying you need booming bass and be heard from miles away. but i think you can get better and faster bass sound by going with a bigger amp for the sub, this way you can leave your head unit bass levels down and have tight bass, then you feel it not just hear it. I listen heavy metal and have two 12' subs and a 500w mono amp, this thing does it all, friends cant believe that there 12' subs. anyway have fun with your new stuff cuz you'll love it.

I wouldn't worry about "underpowering" your subwoofer. I've tried to do this before with no luck. If you put a tone generator on a low power amp, cranked up all the gains, and let it play all day, you might create a situation where the high wattage sub got warm, but it would probably never blow. And this really wouldn't happen in practice when listening to music, even loudly.

Underpowering is partly myth, partly an oversimplification, imo. I also believe audio sellers used it to sell bigger, more expensive amplifiers. The theory seems sound: overdriving an amplifier rated lower than your sub will cause signal clipping, a squared wave instead of a smooth one. Problem is, clipping itself cannot magically destroy speakers. If it did, the distortion you hear from electric guitars, which is a distorted, often clipped signal, would hurt your speakers, but it doesn't. So distortion itself isn't dangerous, especially to subs.

In order to do damage, the clipping must allow peak power to exceed the speaker's RMS for an extended period of time. This can happen with tweeters and low-power mids, because they're often rated at lower wattages, but modern subs are built to take serious power. The sub you chose is rated 250W RMS with a 500 Watt peak. You won't hurt that with a 100W amp, but you might hurt it with a 250W or 300W amp if you drove it to clipping and played the sub too long. The 100W amp can distort quite a bit and still not reach the sub's 250W RMS rating. It's peak rating is ~200W max.

To blow a sub, overpower it by using an amp that's too big - then clipping will become dangerous. I think the myth started when people who blew subs knew clipping had something to do with it, and since lower power amps tend to clip earlier, they assumed the clipping killed the sub, and the lower power amp was dangerous. But it's not the clipping distortion that blows the speaker, it's clipping + too much power.

More info: http://audiojunkies.com/forum/blog/4736-overpowering-underpowering-distortion-clipping-everything-between.html

fantastic advice.First-Sqrivi bumper.second-hi-fi system.(do they still call it hi-fi?)

Rockford has decent subs from my experience. I have 2 p2d412's with a 250rms rating, ive had a 300w amp going to each sub for over 2 years with absolutely no problems.

If you are looking for subs.......Dayton audio makes excellent subs for the money. I have done several systems with them, both home and car, and have always had great results.

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=dayton%20audio%20subwoofer

Peerless and sb acoustics also have great products.

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=peerless%20sub%20woofer

http://madisound.com/store/index.php?manufacturers_id=147

I am using the 12" SB Acoustics subs in a home speaker build I posted somewhere on this site. They are fantastic subs.



Just some thoughts.

So basically everything that I said I was going to to do I didn't, I was looking on bestbuy one day and they had a deal going on for all Kicker subwoofers, from 8" to 15", buy one get one free, so I was going to go up their and buy 1 15" and get the second free, (saving 150$), buy a box, and wiring and that was it, but it turned out they didn't carry any 15" subwoofer boxes and they were out of stock, so I went ahead and bought two 12" Kicker subwoofers that came already in a Kicker ported box and the speakers are rated Dual 2-ohm, I've been looking for an amplifier and I've decided I'm going to get the Kicker ZX amp which has 400 RMS @ 2 ohms and 800 peak power @ 2 ohms.

I still don't have a head unit yet, but when I get my speakers and amp installed at best buy my mom is going to go ahead and buy me my head unit and wiring, I still plan on getting Kicker 6x9's and Kicker 5.25's along with Kicker tweeters in the future, which I'm thinking I'll probably just have those wired to my CD player so its getting some amount of wattage.

Hopefully everything works out good, but if anything breaks or gets blown, I got a 2 year warranty put on the package.

AA wrote:

I wouldn't worry about "underpowering" your subwoofer. I've tried to do this before with no luck. If you put a tone generator on a low power amp, cranked up all the gains, and let it play all day, you might create a situation where the high wattage sub got warm, but it would probably never blow. And this really wouldn't happen in practice when listening to music, even loudly.

Underpowering is partly myth, partly an oversimplification, imo. I also believe audio sellers used it to sell bigger, more expensive amplifiers. The theory seems sound: overdriving an amplifier rated lower than your sub will cause signal clipping, a squared wave instead of a smooth one. Problem is, clipping itself cannot magically destroy speakers. If it did, the distortion you hear from electric guitars, which is a distorted, often clipped signal, would hurt your speakers, but it doesn't. So distortion itself isn't dangerous, especially to subs.

In order to do damage, the clipping must allow peak power to exceed the speaker's RMS for an extended period of time. This can happen with tweeters and low-power mids, because they're often rated at lower wattages, but modern subs are built to take serious power. The sub you chose is rated 250W RMS with a 500 Watt peak. You won't hurt that with a 100W amp, but you might hurt it with a 250W or 300W amp if you drove it to clipping and played the sub too long. The 100W amp can distort quite a bit and still not reach the sub's 250W RMS rating. It's peak rating is ~200W max.

To blow a sub, overpower it by using an amp that's too big - then clipping will become dangerous. I think the myth started when people who blew subs knew clipping had something to do with it, and since lower power amps tend to clip earlier, they assumed the clipping killed the sub, and the lower power amp was dangerous. But it's not the clipping distortion that blows the speaker, it's clipping + too much power.

More info: http://audiojunkies.com/forum/blog/4736-overpowering-underpowering-distortion-clipping-everything-between.html

I wondered about that myself. That's something I've head of before too. I thought it had to do with the clipping causing more stress to the motor components of the speaker due to the nature of the wave it's receiving, not so much because it's not getting enough power to it - more like the unusually flat waves coming in are causing the speaker to spend too much time in full excursion which lets it heat up more and so on. But I would agree if you're saying it's all basically myth.

How did you get the seats to fold down? is there a write up?