FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC)

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:18 pm

AA, I dont know how you got the last one formatted. Here's a WOT throttle scan but I cant get it
straightened out.

Gonna try emailing you a couple CSV files.

Does anyone here use HPTuners that will help me too? I will email you my scan files! Pleeeease! help

Code:: Frame Time Engine RPM (SAE) rpm Vehicle Speed (SAE) mph Air Fuel Ratio Commanded Lo Res afr Throttle Position (SAE) % Ignition Timing Advance (SAE) Â° Knock Retard Â° Mass Air Flow Hz Mass Air Flow (SAE) lb/min Manifold Absolute Pressure (SAE) kPa O2 Voltage B1S1 mV Engine Coolant Temp (SAE) Â°F Intake Air Temp (SAE) Â°F Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 (SAE) % Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 (SAE) % Trans Current Gear Calculated Load (SAE) %
70 00:06.9 2102 77 14.7 41 10 0 6695 9.638 127 747 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
71 00:07.0 2109 77 14.7 41 10 0 6718 9.74 127 204 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
72 00:07.1 2116 78 14.7 41 10 0 6716 9.732 126 773 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
73 00:07.2 2105 78 14.7 41 10 0 6708 9.693 125 534 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
74 00:07.3 2126 78 14.7 41 10.5 0 6729 9.789 127 252 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
75 00:07.4 2105 78 14.7 41 10 0 6716 9.732 124 694 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
76 00:07.5 2122 78 14.7 41 10.5 0 6706 9.684 124 495 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
77 00:07.6 2119 78 14.7 41 10 0 6708 9.693 127 595 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
78 00:07.7 2119 78 14.7 41 9 1.1 6729 9.789 127 586 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
79 00:07.8 2116 78 14.7 41 9 1.1 6738 9.823 124 707 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
80 00:07.9 2126 78 14.7 41 9.5 1 6729 9.789 127 582 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
81 00:08.0 2116 78 14.7 41 9.5 0.9 6729 9.789 126 625 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
82 00:08.1 2129 78 14.7 41 9.5 0.8 6729 9.789 125 451 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
83 00:08.2 2119 78 14.7 41 9.5 0.7 6716 9.732 124 590 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
84 00:08.3 2140 78 14.7 41 10 0.5 6751 9.88 127 286 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
85 00:08.4 2133 78 14.7 41 10 0.4 6740 9.833 125 595 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
86 00:08.5 2150 79 14.7 41 10 0.4 6751 9.88 125 252 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
87 00:08.6 2140 79 14.7 41 10 0.3 6749 9.869 127 621 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
88 00:08.7 2154 79 14.7 41 10 0.2 6784 10.029 125 130 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
89 00:08.8 2133 79 14.7 41 10.5 0.1 6751 9.88 127 664 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
90 00:08.9 2157 79 14.7 41 10.5 0 6762 9.93 128 152 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
91 00:09.0 2136 79 14.7 41 10.5 0 6729 9.789 128 716 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
92 00:09.1 2157 79 14.7 41 10.5 0 6751 9.88 125 74 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
93 00:09.2 2140 79 14.7 41 10.5 0 6762 9.93 126 764 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
94 00:09.3 2150 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6740 9.833 126 100 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
95 00:09.4 2150 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6762 9.93 127 786 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
96 00:09.5 2164 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6765 9.943 128 130 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
97 00:09.6 2154 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6751 9.88 125 686 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
98 00:09.7 2161 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6773 9.98 126 104 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
99 00:09.8 2157 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6784 10.029 126 794 176 48 0 3.1 4 30
100 00:09.9 2179 80 14.7 42 10.5 0 6822 10.197 127 226 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
101 00:10.0 2190 80 12.2 47 12.5 0 6897 10.539 128 694 176 46 0 3.1 4 31
102 00:10.1 2223 80 12 51 11.5 1.4 6950 10.779 130 894 176 46 0 3.1 4 32
103 00:10.2 2238 80 11.9 54 12 1.3 6985 10.943 131 885 176 46 0 3.1 4 33
104 00:10.3 2261 80 11.9 56 12 1.2 6985 10.943 131 885 176 46 0 3.1 4 33
105 00:10.4 2337 80 11.8 57 12.5 1.1 7091 11.446 135 890 176 46 0 3.1 4 33
106 00:10.5 2516 81 11.7 60 13.5 1.1 7283 12.388 134 890 176 46 0 3.1 3 35
107 00:10.6 2812 81 11.6 63 14.5 1 7658 14.369 135 885 176 46 0 3.1 3 39
108 00:10.7 3018 81 11.5 64 14.5 0.9 7962 16.109 142 885 176 46 0 3.1 3 45
109 00:10.8 3068 81 11.5 65 -3 0.8 7994 16.297 144 898 176 46 0 3.1 3 49
110 00:10.9 3315 81 11.4 65 -3 0.7 8266 17.921 142 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 49
111 00:11.0 3348 81 11.4 65 0 0.6 8308 18.18 140 890 176 46 0 3.1 3 55
112 00:11.1 3509 81 11.4 67 14.5 0.6 8446 19.066 142 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 55
113 00:11.2 3557 81 11.3 68 14.5 0.5 8521 19.555 146 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 58
114 00:11.3 3557 81 11.3 69 14.5 0.4 8586 19.988 146 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 59
115 00:11.4 3576 82 11.3 72 14.5 0.4 8586 19.988 144 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 60
116 00:11.5 3586 82 11.3 75 15 0.3 8633 20.307 145 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 60
117 00:11.6 3596 83 11.3 79 15 0.2 8667 20.536 147 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 61
118 00:11.7 3605 83 11.3 85 15 0.1 8667 20.536 146 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 62
119 00:11.8 3625 83 11.3 94 15 0 8729 20.965 146 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 63
120 00:11.9 3625 83 11.3 99 15 0 8746 21.084 149 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 63
121 00:12.0 3635 83 11.3 100 15 0 8744 21.069 148 898 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
122 00:12.1 3655 84 11.3 100 15 1.5 8750 21.117 152 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
123 00:12.2 3645 85 11.3 100 13.5 1.4 8762 21.2 148 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
124 00:12.3 3655 85 11.3 100 14 1.4 8779 21.318 147 898 176 48 0 3.1 3 64
125 00:12.4 3655 85 11.3 100 14 1.3 8779 21.318 148 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
126 00:12.5 3666 85 11.3 100 14 1.2 8762 21.196 150 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 65
127 00:12.6 3666 85 11.3 100 14 1.1 8726 20.947 148 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
128 00:12.7 3676 86 11.3 100 14 1.1 8785 21.359 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 64
129 00:12.8 3686 86 11.3 100 14 1 8773 21.275 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 64
130 00:12.9 3696 86 11.3 100 14 0.9 8796 21.442 148 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
131 00:13.0 3707 86 11.3 100 14 1 8830 21.678 153 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
132 00:13.1 3707 87 11.3 100 14 0.9 8806 21.511 149 890 176 46 0 3.1 3 65
133 00:13.2 3717 87 11.3 100 14.5 0.8 8812 21.552 152 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
134 00:13.3 3717 87 11.3 100 14 0.9 8803 21.487 151 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
135 00:13.4 3717 88 11.3 100 14.5 0.8 8818 21.598 149 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
136 00:13.5 3728 88 11.3 100 14.5 0.8 8823 21.631 150 890 176 46 0 3.1 3 65
137 00:13.6 3738 88 11.3 100 14.5 0.7 8838 21.74 149 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
138 00:13.7 3728 88 11.3 100 14.5 0.6 8848 21.806 154 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
139 00:13.8 3738 89 11.3 100 13.5 1.5 8830 21.678 150 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 66
140 00:13.9 3749 89 11.3 100 13.5 1.5 8837 21.732 149 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
141 00:14.0 3760 89 11.3 100 13.5 1.4 8847 21.798 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
142 00:14.1 3760 89 11.3 100 14 1.3 8843 21.773 149 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
143 00:14.2 3771 89 11.3 100 14 1.2 8885 22.07 152 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
144 00:14.3 3771 89 11.3 100 13 2.1 8878 22.02 154 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
145 00:14.4 3771 90 11.3 100 12 3 8875 22.002 151 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
146 00:14.5 3771 90 11.3 100 12 2.9 8889 22.102 149 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
147 00:14.6 3781 91 11.3 100 12.5 2.8 8861 21.899 152 890 176 46 0 3.1 3 66
148 00:14.7 3781 91 11.3 100 12.5 2.7 8852 21.836 152 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
149 00:14.8 3792 91 11.3 100 12.5 2.6 8884 22.067 151 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
150 00:14.9 3803 91 11.3 100 12.5 2.5 8884 22.067 152 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
151 00:15.0 3803 92 11.3 100 12.5 2.5 8894 22.137 149 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
152 00:15.1 3803 92 11.3 100 12.5 2.5 8910 22.256 149 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
153 00:15.2 3826 93 11.3 100 12.5 2.4 8903 22.205 154 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
154 00:15.3 3814 93 11.3 100 13 2.3 8908 22.237 152 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
155 00:15.4 3826 93 11.3 100 13 2.2 8930 22.401 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
156 00:15.5 3848 93 11.3 100 13 2.1 8919 22.319 150 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
157 00:15.6 3837 93 11.3 100 13 2 8944 22.504 150 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 68
158 00:15.7 3859 94 11.3 100 13 2 8949 22.539 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 68
159 00:15.8 3848 94 11.3 100 13 1.9 8930 22.401 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
160 00:15.9 3859 94 11.3 100 13 1.8 8953 22.568 149 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
161 00:16.0 3871 94 11.3 100 13 1.8 8957 22.596 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 68
162 00:16.1 3871 94 11.3 100 13.5 1.7 8969 22.682 150 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
163 00:16.2 3882 95 11.3 100 13.5 1.6 8964 22.646 151 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 68
164 00:16.3 3882 95 11.3 100 13 1.8 8965 22.652 153 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
165 00:16.4 3893 96 11.3 100 13 1.8 8992 22.848 151 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
166 00:16.5 3905 96 11.3 100 13 1.7 9003 22.93 150 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
167 00:16.6 3905 96 11.3 100 13.5 1.6 9006 22.953 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
168 00:16.7 3917 96 11.3 100 13.5 1.6 9003 22.93 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 70
169 00:16.8 3928 97 11.3 100 13.5 1.5 9038 23.192 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
170 00:16.9 3952 97 11.3 100 13.5 1.4 9006 22.957 154 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
171 00:17.0 3952 96 11.2 100 13 2 9045 23.248 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
172 00:17.1 3964 98 11.2 100 13 1.9 9038 23.188 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 70
173 00:17.2 3952 98 11.2 100 13 1.8 9033 23.153 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 70
174 00:17.3 3964 98 11.2 100 13 1.8 9072 23.446 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 70
175 00:17.4 3988 98 11.2 100 13 1.8 9036 23.178 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
176 00:17.5 3976 98 11.2 100 13.5 1.7 9036 23.178 154 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
177 00:17.6 4000 98 11.2 100 13.5 1.6 9088 23.563 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
178 00:17.7 4012 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.5 9094 23.61 151 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
179 00:17.8 4000 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.4 9084 23.537 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
180 00:17.9 4024 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.3 9107 23.708 154 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
181 00:18.0 4049 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.2 9122 23.813 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
182 00:18.1 4037 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.1 9082 23.515 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
183 00:18.2 4049 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.3 9122 23.817 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
184 00:18.3 4049 100 11.2 100 13 2 9146 23.998 158 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 72
185 00:18.4 4074 101 11.2 100 13 1.9 9119 23.79 153 877 176 48 0 3.1 3 72
186 00:18.5 4074 101 11.2 100 13 1.9 9146 23.998 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 72
187 00:18.6 4074 101 11.2 100 13 1.8 9161 24.114 157 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 73
188 00:18.7 4100 101 11.2 100 13 1.8 9169 24.183 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 72
189 00:18.8 4100 101 11.2 100 13.5 1.7 9185 24.303 159 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 73
190 00:18.9 4125 102 11.2 100 12.5 2.3 9148 24.016 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 73
191 00:19.0 4125 103 11.2 100 12.5 2.3 9183 24.287 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 73
192 00:19.1 4138 103 11.2 100 12.5 2.2 9183 24.287 153 877 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
193 00:19.2 4125 103 11.2 100 13 2.1 9196 24.385 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 73
194 00:19.3 4138 103 11.2 100 13 2 9207 24.47 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
195 00:19.4 4151 103 11.2 100 13 1.9 9196 24.385 154 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
196 00:19.5 4151 103 11.2 100 13 1.8 9218 24.56 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
197 00:19.6 4178 103 11.2 100 13 1.8 9217 24.552 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
198 00:19.7 4178 104 11.2 100 13 1.7 9246 24.772 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
199 00:19.8 4191 104 11.1 100 11.5 3.3 9219 24.564 151 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 75
200 00:19.9 4191 104 11.1 100 11.5 3.2 9245 24.768 158 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 75
201 00:20.0 4218 104 11.1 100 11.5 3.1 9257 24.864 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 75
202 00:20.1 4204 104 11.1 100 12 3 9284 25.074 158 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
203 00:20.2 4204 105 11.1 100 10.5 4.3 9295 25.168 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
204 00:20.3 4231 105 11.1 100 10.5 4.2 9285 25.086 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 75
205 00:20.4 4245 106 11.1 100 10.5 4.1 9308 25.269 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
206 00:20.5 4231 106 11.1 100 10.5 4 9281 25.056 153 877 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
207 00:20.6 4259 106 11.1 100 10.5 4 9310 25.285 152 877 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
208 00:20.7 4245 106 11.1 100 11 3.9 9324 25.395 159 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
209 00:20.8 4287 106 11.1 100 11 3.8 9282 25.063 153 872 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
210 00:20.9 4287 107 11 100 11 3.7 9299 25.199 153 877 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
211 00:21.0 4301 107 10.8 100 11.5 3.6 9332 25.457 154 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 77
212 00:21.1 4301 107 10.6 100 12.5 3.5 9335 25.485 153 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
213 00:21.2 4287 107 10.4 100 13 3.4 9255 24.848 155 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 77
214 00:21.3 4287 107 10.3 100 13 3.4 9094 23.61 143 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
215 00:21.4 4259 107 10.2 100 13.5 3.3 8784 21.355 137 903 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
216 00:21.5 4287 108 10 100 14 3.3 8693 20.723 126 898 176 48 0 3.1 3 64
217 00:21.6 3826 106 10.2 100 14.5 3.2 8305 18.166 126 903 176 48 0 3.1 3 62
218 00:21.7 3717 106 11.1 100 12 3.1 8120 17.048 123 4 176 48 0 3.1 3 53
219 00:21.8 3538 107 10.7 100 13 3 8632 20.298 140 0 176 48 0 3.1 3 52
220 00:21.9 3357 107 10.7 100 13.5 2.9 8465 19.186 153 4 176 48 0 3.1 3 61
221 00:22.0 3194 107 10.7 81 14 2.8 8067 16.733 147 0 176 48 0 3.1 3 56
222 00:22.1 3060 107 12.7 36 11 2.7 6893 10.519 124 0 176 48 0 3.1 3 46

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:09 pm

Charlie I can take a look. 11.0 is on the rich side for WOT commanded A/F ratio. It's the OEM 'safe' values I believe. But without a wideband sensor you don't really know what the actual A/F ratio is. Too much fuel can cause KR as well as too little fuel. 'Safe' but lost power by being too rich.

Overall things in your scan look okay. I was expecting to see higher MAF Hz but it's hard to read it all in this format. Doesn't help that I'm not running the stock MAF anymore so my view is skewed.

What is the issue you are trying to solve? WOT KR? Part throttle KR?

Send me a PM for email contact info.

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:39 pm

I want to increase timing with a 3.6" pulley. At WOT I am only seeing a degree or 2 of KR for a mere second or two. After that I am straight 0 KR WOT.

I noticed that my MAF also looked weak. My only guess at this point is that my filter is caked in salt. It's tucked in my fenderwell and I havent dug in to take a look yet.

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:02 am

I think you need to work with your WOT fueling a bit.

Two things - to find out what your "real" A/F ratio is you need a wideband sensor. A tailpipe probe at a dyno will give you a fair baseline to compare your O2 readings from.

You can do some guesswork without that information, but it's risky guesswork. Basically, if you are too rich you can cause KR. 11.0 A/F and lower is a bit too rich.

What you can do is manually add an eensy bit of timing in the WOT area where there is no KR right now. If you introduce KR, try working with the fuel mixture over the same area. Try a bit richer, see if more or less KR, try a bit leaner, see if more or less KR. Really, it's a LOT of trial and error to get it right.

Have you done the basic tuning so that you are going into WOT without a strong LTFT/STFT? Before you get too much into WOT tuning, your base tune should have you with very small LTFT and STFT amounts.

I find the biggest interference in WOT tuning to be the fuel enrichment over time settings. If everything is tuned right, it should be minimal enrichment. I had a lot of trouble making my called A/F ratio leaner. It's still pig rich on a dyno, but the way my brother is DD'ing the car he's not that interested in fixing it at this point. I know we could make it a bit faster in the 1/4 mile by trimming the WOT mixture. At this stage, more dyno time is required to get it right (or a full time wideband O2 sensor).

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:49 am

Hey, Derek. I am going to install the wideband this spring/summer.

deekster_caddy wrote:: Have you done the basic tuning so that you are going into WOT without a strong LTFT/STFT? Before you get too much into WOT tuning, your base tune should have you with very small LTFT and STFT amounts.

Basic? haha, you already lost me. How do I tune my fuel trims to keep them tight? Can you point me to a resource where I can learn more about it?

Thank you!

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:58 pm

You are jumping right to WOT tuning and skipping all of the tuning basics.

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:23 pm

I dont want to skip the basics. Please forgive me.

How do I get started with the basics? I am a total noob cry

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:51 pm

My understanding is that if you have LTFT or STFT actively and hit the throttle, the fuel compensation holds during WOT. So you want to do your basic idle, part and medium throttle tuning so that you generally have very very small trims before you get to WOT. Then you can adjust WOT fueling and timing.

I'll send you a PM with my dropbox info.

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:01 pm

What are you guys' thoughts on VE tuning? Would you please share what you think about it and how you do it? Especially HPT users.

I've read that some say it's meaningless with a supercharged 3800. I've read that others say it must be done for a proper tune. Disabling the maf to properly tune it is the way to go.

I am trying to find the images to this guide by Gary. Just reading the text now. He says:
http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/faq.php?faq=pcm_garys_tuning
'This guide will address VE tuning, in SD mode. Although some may argue the validity, the VE table is not referenced only in the event of a MAF failure. It is referenced in nearly all airflow, fueling, and calculations. If you choose to pass over this section your tune may not be correct.'

How do you guys do your VE tables?

And then Gary says this. Do you guys go to SD mode to tune for VE?

The first thing we have to do is get the car into Speed Density mode. Again, you should decide whether or not you want to perform the VE tuning in SD mode. This means that a different set of tables take control, leaving the Mass Air Flow Sensor basically out of the loop. The first thing we have to do is make sure that when we go into SD mode. The car will stay running. To do this, we need to copy our High Octane Timing table over to the Low Octane Timing table. The car will fail over to the LOW upon MAF failure. Secondly, we need to disable PE mode.

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:51 pm

AA , how do I format this? How do these numbers look? I think they look pretty good? Not much KR to kill?

Code:: Time Engine RPM (SAE) rpm Vehicle Speed (SAE) mph Air Fuel Ratio Commanded Lo Res afr Throttle Position (SAE) % Ignition Timing Advance (SAE) Â° Knock Retard Â° Mass Air Flow Hz Mass Air Flow (SAE) lb/min Manifold Absolute Pressure (SAE) kPa O2 Voltage B1S1 mV Engine Coolant Temp (SAE) Â°F Intake Air Temp (SAE) Â°F Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 (SAE) % Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 (SAE) %
00:07.0 4125 65 11.2 100 14.5 0 9178 24.246 151 916 172 46 0 3.1
00:07.1 4164 66 11.2 100 14.5 0 9215 24.537 151 911 172 46 0 3.1
00:07.2 4191 66 11.2 100 14.5 0 9226 24.617 152 911 172 46 0 3.1
00:07.3 4218 66 11.2 100 14.5 0 9260 24.883 152 911 172 46 0 3.1
00:07.4 4245 67 11.2 100 14.5 0 9277 25.023 150 911 172 46 0 3.1
00:07.5 4273 68 11.2 100 14.5 0 9315 25.324 149 916 171 46 0 3.1
00:07.6 4301 68 11.2 100 14.5 0 9309 25.274 151 920 172 46 0 3.1
00:07.7 4343 68 11.2 100 14.5 0 9340 25.523 149 907 172 46 0 3.1
00:07.8 4372 70 11.2 100 14.5 0 9388 25.912 149 907 172 46 0 3.1
00:07.9 4372 70 11.2 100 14.5 0 9411 26.102 150 907 172 46 0 3.1
00:08.0 4431 70 11.2 100 14 0 9411 26.102 150 907 172 46 0 3.1
00:08.1 4446 71 11.2 100 14 0 9448 26.408 149 911 172 46 0 3.1
00:08.2 4461 71 11.1 100 14 0 9485 26.715 154 907 172 46 0 3.1
00:08.3 4491 71 11.1 100 13 1 9459 26.498 149 911 172 46 0 3.1
00:08.4 4522 72 11.1 100 13 0.9 9555 27.303 150 916 172 46 0 3.1
00:08.5 4554 73 11.1 100 13 0.8 9532 27.109 150 911 172 46 0 3.1
00:08.6 4569 73 11.1 100 13 0.7 9541 27.179 149 911 172 46 0 3.1
00:08.7 4585 73 11.1 100 13 0.6 9572 27.449 154 916 172 46 0 3.1
00:08.8 4617 74 11.1 100 13 0.5 9577 27.486 153 916 172 46 0 3.1
00:08.9 4667 75 11.1 100 13 0.4 9649 28.112 155 911 172 46 0 3.1
00:09.0 4700 75 11.1 100 13 0.4 9661 28.211 151 916 172 46 0 3.1
00:09.1 4717 76 11.1 100 13 0.4 9642 28.043 157 916 172 46 0 3.1
00:09.2 4734 76 11.1 100 13 0.3 9668 28.28 157 907 172 46 0 3.1
00:09.3 4751 76 11.1 100 13 0.2 9699 28.552 154 911 172 46 0 3.1
00:09.4 4768 76 11.1 100 13 0.1 9755 29.043 153 911 172 46 0 3.1
00:09.5 4803 78 11.1 100 13 0 9734 28.862 155 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:09.6 4856 78 11.1 100 13 0 9782 29.282 155 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:09.7 4856 78 11.1 100 13 0 9761 29.094 154 907 171 46 0 3.1
00:09.8 4892 79 11.1 100 13 0 9827 29.676 157 907 171 46 0 3.1
00:09.9 4892 79 11.1 100 13 0 9798 29.42 156 907 171 46 0 3.1
00:10.0 4947 79 11.1 100 13 0 9822 29.63 157 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:10.1 4966 80 11 100 13 0 9840 29.788 157 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:10.2 4985 81 11 100 13 0 9866 30.014 157 907 171 46 0 3.1
00:10.3 5004 81 11 100 13 0 9874 30.088 159 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:10.4 5023 81 11 100 13.5 0 9899 30.31 157 903 171 46 0 3.1
00:10.5 5062 81 11 100 13.5 0 9893 30.251 155 916 171 46 0 3.1
00:10.6 5081 82 11 100 13.5 0 9903 30.344 157 907 171 46 0 3.1
00:10.7 5101 83 11 100 13.5 0 9920 30.495 157 903 171 46 0 3.1
00:10.8 5141 83 11 100 13.5 0 9941 30.679 163 907 171 46 0 3.1
00:10.9 5181 83 11 100 13.5 0 9964 30.876 159 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:11.0 5181 84 11 100 13.5 0 9991 31.118 158 916 171 46 0 3.1
00:11.1 5202 85 11 100 12.5 0.8 9969 30.924 160 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:11.2 5243 85 11 100 12.5 0.7 10007 31.254 160 916 171 46 0 3.1
00:11.3 5243 85 11 100 13 0.6 10013 31.305 159 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:11.4 5285 86 11 100 13 0.5 10039 31.528 165 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:11.5 5306 86 11 100 13 0.4 10034 31.49 159 903 171 46 0 3.1
00:11.6 5328 86 10.9 100 13 0.4 10025 31.415 160 903 171 46 0 3.1
00:11.7 5350 87 10.9 100 12.5 0.8 10074 31.831 166 920 171 46 0 3.1
00:11.8 5350 87 10.9 100 13 0.8 10116 32.196 160 907 171 46 0 3.1
00:11.9 5328 87 10.9 100 12.5 1.1 10071 31.809 158 907 171 46 0 3.1
00:12.0 5161 88 10.9 100 12.5 1.1 10013 31.305 159 903 171 46 0 3.1
00:12.1 4259 88 11.1 100 -10 0.9 9526 27.06 154 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:12.2 3760 88 11.2 100 8 0.8 8946 22.515 148 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:12.3 3738 88 11.2 100 13.5 1.4 8857 21.873 153 911 171 46 0 3.1
00:12.4 3738 89 11.2 100 12.5 2.1 8840 21.749 149 903 171 46 0 3.1
00:12.5 3749 89 11.2 100 12.5 2 8850 21.819 150 903 171 46 0 3.1
00:12.6 3760 89 11.2 100 13 1.9 8857 21.873 148 903 171 46 0 3.1

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:46 am

The PCM calculates fuel by weighting all of the different parameters and tables. MAF takes a very heavy weight on the scale, so yes you can get away with MAF-only tuning - but only to a point. Once you reach a system that's well removed from stock, the rest of the calculations matter more (because they are further off).

Others say don't bother, but I say why take the chance. Get the base VE/SD tune down first, then you can always refresh it when you make a major modification.

Here's my opinion on the matter - the system is always running a series of corrections off the 'base'. When the base is far from optimized, the system is always correcting. Is this a problem? Well millions of cars on the road are running fine with a non-optimized, base, safe tune.

If you know your VE/SD tune is right, and your MAF tune is right, then later you have a whole bunch of correction (STFT, LTFT or KR), you know something is out of whack. Disconnect the MAF - problem solved? Ahh dirty MAF. Still a problem? Find it...

It's just my preference to have the base tune as close as possible so the system isn't always in correction mode.

One thing I noticed on a few cars - after doing the VE/SD tuning, the MAF tuning portion actually involved very little change. Not all cars, but some. That tells me that some default MAF tables are closer than others.

Interesting point - my 2500 Yukon 8.1. The 8.1 was the optional engine. I did a bit of research and found out that they used the same exact tune as the default 6.0 engine! I had lots of KR on the stock tune, especially towing while using 87 octane (even with 89). I spent a lot of time tuning, with a car on the trailer. I have it set up now so that it runs awesome, KR free on 87 not towing and KR free on 89 while towing. I was able to increase timing in many medium load areas after getting the tune right, with a real increase in performance (MPG).

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:29 pm

I've never tuned for VE. Adjusting only MAFF, and have no troubles keeping fuel trims close to zero. The only time my LTFT goes rich is on decel, and that's fine by me. Probably aids with the crackling post-fire! I almost never see a lean condition, and if it is, it's +1.5 or 2.3 and short-lived. This is because my MAFF table favors a slightly rich condition.

A VE tune might help with the decel, but LTFT is never going to be perfect due to environmental factors (hills, wind, etc). A good friend of mine is a pro 3800 tuner - he told me VE is a back-up for when MAFF isn't working (failed MAF sensor). I don't know if he's right, but it's his opinion and I'll respect it.

Otherwise no good reason not to VE tune. I've just never gotten around to it!

Charlie, here's your scan, adjusted some, not perfect. If there's time later I'll fix your spread sheet and try it again:

Code:: Buick Riviera (V6) 1999 3/8/2014 9:47 PM

FR Time RPM MPH AFR Thr% ADV KR MAFF MAF MAP O2 ECT IAT STFT LTFT Gear
70 00:06.9 2102 77 14.7 41 10 0 6695 9.638 127 747 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
71 00:07.0 2109 77 14.7 41 10 0 6718 9.74 127 204 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
72 00:07.1 2116 78 14.7 41 10 0 6716 9.732 126 773 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
73 00:07.2 2105 78 14.7 41 10 0 6708 9.693 125 534 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
74 00:07.3 2126 78 14.7 41 10.5 0 6729 9.789 127 252 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
75 00:07.4 2105 78 14.7 41 10 0 6716 9.732 124 694 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
76 00:07.5 2122 78 14.7 41 10.5 0 6706 9.684 124 495 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
77 00:07.6 2119 78 14.7 41 10 0 6708 9.693 127 595 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
78 00:07.7 2119 78 14.7 41 9 1.1 6729 9.789 127 586 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
79 00:07.8 2116 78 14.7 41 9 1.1 6738 9.823 124 707 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
80 00:07.9 2126 78 14.7 41 9.5 1 6729 9.789 127 582 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
81 00:08.0 2116 78 14.7 41 9.5 0.9 6729 9.789 126 625 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
82 00:08.1 2129 78 14.7 41 9.5 0.8 6729 9.789 125 451 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
83 00:08.2 2119 78 14.7 41 9.5 0.7 6716 9.732 124 590 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
84 00:08.3 2140 78 14.7 41 10 0.5 6751 9.88 127 286 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
85 00:08.4 2133 78 14.7 41 10 0.4 6740 9.833 125 595 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
86 00:08.5 2150 79 14.7 41 10 0.4 6751 9.88 125 252 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
87 00:08.6 2140 79 14.7 41 10 0.3 6749 9.869 127 621 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
88 00:08.7 2154 79 14.7 41 10 0.2 6784 10.029 125 130 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
89 00:08.8 2133 79 14.7 41 10.5 0.1 6751 9.88 127 664 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
90 00:08.9 2157 79 14.7 41 10.5 0 6762 9.93 128 152 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
91 00:09.0 2136 79 14.7 41 10.5 0 6729 9.789 128 716 176 46 0 3.1 4 29
92 00:09.1 2157 79 14.7 41 10.5 0 6751 9.88 125 74 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
93 00:09.2 2140 79 14.7 41 10.5 0 6762 9.93 126 764 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
94 00:09.3 2150 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6740 9.833 126 100 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
95 00:09.4 2150 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6762 9.93 127 786 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
96 00:09.5 2164 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6765 9.943 128 130 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
97 00:09.6 2154 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6751 9.88 125 686 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
98 00:09.7 2161 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6773 9.98 126 104 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
99 00:09.8 2157 80 14.7 41 10.5 0 6784 10.029 126 794 176 48 0 3.1 4 30
100 00:09.9 2179 80 14.7 42 10.5 0 6822 10.197 127 226 176 46 0 3.1 4 30
101 00:10.0 2190 80 12.2 47 12.5 0 6897 10.539 128 694 176 46 0 3.1 4 31
102 00:10.1 2223 80 12 51 11.5 1.4 6950 10.779 130 894 176 46 0 3.1 4 32
103 00:10.2 2238 80 11.9 54 12 1.3 6985 10.943 131 885 176 46 0 3.1 4 33
104 00:10.3 2261 80 11.9 56 12 1.2 6985 10.943 131 885 176 46 0 3.1 4 33
105 00:10.4 2337 80 11.8 57 12.5 1.1 7091 11.446 135 890 176 46 0 3.1 4 33
106 00:10.5 2516 81 11.7 60 13.5 1.1 7283 12.388 134 890 176 46 0 3.1 3 35
107 00:10.6 2812 81 11.6 63 14.5 1 7658 14.369 135 885 176 46 0 3.1 3 39
108 00:10.7 3018 81 11.5 64 14.5 0.9 7962 16.109 142 885 176 46 0 3.1 3 45
109 00:10.8 3068 81 11.5 65 -3 0.8 7994 16.297 144 898 176 46 0 3.1 3 49
110 00:10.9 3315 81 11.4 65 -3 0.7 8266 17.921 142 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 49
111 00:11.0 3348 81 11.4 65 0 0.6 8308 18.18 140 890 176 46 0 3.1 3 55
112 00:11.1 3509 81 11.4 67 14.5 0.6 8446 19.066 142 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 55
113 00:11.2 3557 81 11.3 68 14.5 0.5 8521 19.555 146 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 58
114 00:11.3 3557 81 11.3 69 14.5 0.4 8586 19.988 146 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 59
115 00:11.4 3576 82 11.3 72 14.5 0.4 8586 19.988 144 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 60
116 00:11.5 3586 82 11.3 75 15 0.3 8633 20.307 145 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 60
117 00:11.6 3596 83 11.3 79 15 0.2 8667 20.536 147 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 61
118 00:11.7 3605 83 11.3 85 15 0.1 8667 20.536 146 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 62
119 00:11.8 3625 83 11.3 94 15 0 8729 20.965 146 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 63
120 00:11.9 3625 83 11.3 99 15 0 8746 21.084 149 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 63
121 00:12.0 3635 83 11.3 100 15 0 8744 21.069 148 898 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
122 00:12.1 3655 84 11.3 100 15 1.5 8750 21.117 152 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
123 00:12.2 3645 85 11.3 100 13.5 1.4 8762 21.2 148 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
124 00:12.3 3655 85 11.3 100 14 1.4 8779 21.318 147 898 176 48 0 3.1 3 64
125 00:12.4 3655 85 11.3 100 14 1.3 8779 21.318 148 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
126 00:12.5 3666 85 11.3 100 14 1.2 8762 21.196 150 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 65
127 00:12.6 3666 85 11.3 100 14 1.1 8726 20.947 148 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
128 00:12.7 3676 86 11.3 100 14 1.1 8785 21.359 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 64
129 00:12.8 3686 86 11.3 100 14 1 8773 21.275 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 64
130 00:12.9 3696 86 11.3 100 14 0.9 8796 21.442 148 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
131 00:13.0 3707 86 11.3 100 14 1 8830 21.678 153 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
132 00:13.1 3707 87 11.3 100 14 0.9 8806 21.511 149 890 176 46 0 3.1 3 65
133 00:13.2 3717 87 11.3 100 14.5 0.8 8812 21.552 152 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
134 00:13.3 3717 87 11.3 100 14 0.9 8803 21.487 151 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 64
135 00:13.4 3717 88 11.3 100 14.5 0.8 8818 21.598 149 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
136 00:13.5 3728 88 11.3 100 14.5 0.8 8823 21.631 150 890 176 46 0 3.1 3 65
137 00:13.6 3738 88 11.3 100 14.5 0.7 8838 21.74 149 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
138 00:13.7 3728 88 11.3 100 14.5 0.6 8848 21.806 154 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
139 00:13.8 3738 89 11.3 100 13.5 1.5 8830 21.678 150 894 176 46 0 3.1 3 66
140 00:13.9 3749 89 11.3 100 13.5 1.5 8837 21.732 149 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
141 00:14.0 3760 89 11.3 100 13.5 1.4 8847 21.798 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
142 00:14.1 3760 89 11.3 100 14 1.3 8843 21.773 149 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
143 00:14.2 3771 89 11.3 100 14 1.2 8885 22.07 152 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 65
144 00:14.3 3771 89 11.3 100 13 2.1 8878 22.02 154 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
145 00:14.4 3771 90 11.3 100 12 3 8875 22.002 151 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
146 00:14.5 3771 90 11.3 100 12 2.9 8889 22.102 149 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
147 00:14.6 3781 91 11.3 100 12.5 2.8 8861 21.899 152 890 176 46 0 3.1 3 66
148 00:14.7 3781 91 11.3 100 12.5 2.7 8852 21.836 152 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
149 00:14.8 3792 91 11.3 100 12.5 2.6 8884 22.067 151 894 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
150 00:14.9 3803 91 11.3 100 12.5 2.5 8884 22.067 152 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
151 00:15.0 3803 92 11.3 100 12.5 2.5 8894 22.137 149 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
152 00:15.1 3803 92 11.3 100 12.5 2.5 8910 22.256 149 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 66
153 00:15.2 3826 93 11.3 100 12.5 2.4 8903 22.205 154 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
154 00:15.3 3814 93 11.3 100 13 2.3 8908 22.237 152 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
155 00:15.4 3826 93 11.3 100 13 2.2 8930 22.401 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
156 00:15.5 3848 93 11.3 100 13 2.1 8919 22.319 150 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
157 00:15.6 3837 93 11.3 100 13 2 8944 22.504 150 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 68
158 00:15.7 3859 94 11.3 100 13 2 8949 22.539 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 68
159 00:15.8 3848 94 11.3 100 13 1.9 8930 22.401 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
160 00:15.9 3859 94 11.3 100 13 1.8 8953 22.568 149 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 67
161 00:16.0 3871 94 11.3 100 13 1.8 8957 22.596 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 68
162 00:16.1 3871 94 11.3 100 13.5 1.7 8969 22.682 150 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
163 00:16.2 3882 95 11.3 100 13.5 1.6 8964 22.646 151 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 68
164 00:16.3 3882 95 11.3 100 13 1.8 8965 22.652 153 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
165 00:16.4 3893 96 11.3 100 13 1.8 8992 22.848 151 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
166 00:16.5 3905 96 11.3 100 13 1.7 9003 22.93 150 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
167 00:16.6 3905 96 11.3 100 13.5 1.6 9006 22.953 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
168 00:16.7 3917 96 11.3 100 13.5 1.6 9003 22.93 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 70
169 00:16.8 3928 97 11.3 100 13.5 1.5 9038 23.192 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
170 00:16.9 3952 97 11.3 100 13.5 1.4 9006 22.957 154 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
171 00:17.0 3952 96 11.2 100 13 2 9045 23.248 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
172 00:17.1 3964 98 11.2 100 13 1.9 9038 23.188 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 70
173 00:17.2 3952 98 11.2 100 13 1.8 9033 23.153 150 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 70
174 00:17.3 3964 98 11.2 100 13 1.8 9072 23.446 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 70
175 00:17.4 3988 98 11.2 100 13 1.8 9036 23.178 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
176 00:17.5 3976 98 11.2 100 13.5 1.7 9036 23.178 154 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
177 00:17.6 4000 98 11.2 100 13.5 1.6 9088 23.563 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
178 00:17.7 4012 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.5 9094 23.61 151 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
179 00:17.8 4000 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.4 9084 23.537 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
180 00:17.9 4024 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.3 9107 23.708 154 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
181 00:18.0 4049 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.2 9122 23.813 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
182 00:18.1 4037 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.1 9082 23.515 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
183 00:18.2 4049 99 11.2 100 13.5 1.3 9122 23.817 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 71
184 00:18.3 4049 100 11.2 100 13 2 9146 23.998 158 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 72
185 00:18.4 4074 101 11.2 100 13 1.9 9119 23.79 153 877 176 48 0 3.1 3 72
186 00:18.5 4074 101 11.2 100 13 1.9 9146 23.998 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 72
187 00:18.6 4074 101 11.2 100 13 1.8 9161 24.114 157 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 73
188 00:18.7 4100 101 11.2 100 13 1.8 9169 24.183 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 72
189 00:18.8 4100 101 11.2 100 13.5 1.7 9185 24.303 159 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 73
190 00:18.9 4125 102 11.2 100 12.5 2.3 9148 24.016 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 73
191 00:19.0 4125 103 11.2 100 12.5 2.3 9183 24.287 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 73
192 00:19.1 4138 103 11.2 100 12.5 2.2 9183 24.287 153 877 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
193 00:19.2 4125 103 11.2 100 13 2.1 9196 24.385 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 73
194 00:19.3 4138 103 11.2 100 13 2 9207 24.47 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
195 00:19.4 4151 103 11.2 100 13 1.9 9196 24.385 154 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
196 00:19.5 4151 103 11.2 100 13 1.8 9218 24.56 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
197 00:19.6 4178 103 11.2 100 13 1.8 9217 24.552 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
198 00:19.7 4178 104 11.2 100 13 1.7 9246 24.772 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
199 00:19.8 4191 104 11.1 100 11.5 3.3 9219 24.564 151 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 75
200 00:19.9 4191 104 11.1 100 11.5 3.2 9245 24.768 158 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 75
201 00:20.0 4218 104 11.1 100 11.5 3.1 9257 24.864 152 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 75
202 00:20.1 4204 104 11.1 100 12 3 9284 25.074 158 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
203 00:20.2 4204 105 11.1 100 10.5 4.3 9295 25.168 153 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
204 00:20.3 4231 105 11.1 100 10.5 4.2 9285 25.086 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 75
205 00:20.4 4245 106 11.1 100 10.5 4.1 9308 25.269 153 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
206 00:20.5 4231 106 11.1 100 10.5 4 9281 25.056 153 877 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
207 00:20.6 4259 106 11.1 100 10.5 4 9310 25.285 152 877 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
208 00:20.7 4245 106 11.1 100 11 3.9 9324 25.395 159 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
209 00:20.8 4287 106 11.1 100 11 3.8 9282 25.063 153 872 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
210 00:20.9 4287 107 11 100 11 3.7 9299 25.199 153 877 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
211 00:21.0 4301 107 10.8 100 11.5 3.6 9332 25.457 154 881 176 48 0 3.1 3 77
212 00:21.1 4301 107 10.6 100 12.5 3.5 9335 25.485 153 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 76
213 00:21.2 4287 107 10.4 100 13 3.4 9255 24.848 155 885 176 48 0 3.1 3 77
214 00:21.3 4287 107 10.3 100 13 3.4 9094 23.61 143 890 176 48 0 3.1 3 74
215 00:21.4 4259 107 10.2 100 13.5 3.3 8784 21.355 137 903 176 48 0 3.1 3 69
216 00:21.5 4287 108 10 100 14 3.3 8693 20.723 126 898 176 48 0 3.1 3 64
217 00:21.6 3826 106 10.2 100 14.5 3.2 8305 18.166 126 903 176 48 0 3.1 3 62
218 00:21.7 3717 106 11.1 100 12 3.1 8120 17.048 123 4 176 48 0 3.1 3 53
219 00:21.8 3538 107 10.7 100 13 3 8632 20.298 140 0 176 48 0 3.1 3 52
220 00:21.9 3357 107 10.7 100 13.5 2.9 8465 19.186 153 4 176 48 0 3.1 3 61
221 00:22.0 3194 107 10.7 81 14 2.8 8067 16.733 147 0 176 48 0 3.1 3 56
222 00:22.1 3060 107 12.7 36 11 2.7 6893 10.519 124 0 176 48 0 3.1 3 46

_________________
'05 GTO 6.0L • 6-spd • 95k miles • 0-60: 4.8s • 16.9 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:26

'95 Celica GT 2.2L • 5-spd • 165k miles • 0-60: yes

'98 SC Riviera • 281k miles • 298 HP/370 TQ • 0-60: 5.79s • ET: 13.97 @ 99.28 • 4087 lb • 20.1 avg MPG • Nelson Ledges Lap: 1:30
3.4" pulley • AL104 plugs • 180º t-stat • FWI w/K&N • 1.9:1 rockers • OR pushrods • LS6 valve springs • SLP headers • ZZP fuel rails
KYB GR2 struts • MaxAir shocks • Addco sway bars • UMI bushings • GM STB • Enkei 18" EV5s w/ Dunlop DZ101s • F-body calipers
EBC bluestuff/Hawk HP plus • SS lines • Brembo slotted discs • DHP tuned • Aeroforce • Hidden Hitch
^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

'70 Ninety-Eight Holiday Coupe 455cid • 116k miles
^^^ SOLD ^^^ frown

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:48 am

ZZP is telling me that if I want a dyno tune, I have to get their 1.0 PCM file first aka pay $115

Because this will give my pcm a blanket update they can then tune from.

What do you guys think about this? Shouldnt they just load the blanket tune on the pcm before dynoing?

It doesnt sound right to pay for their 1.0 pcm just to get a dyno tune???
puzzled

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:09 am

That doesn't sound right. Dyno time is dyno time. What they tune during the session is what you're paying for. I see no reason to buy anything else from them. I haven't been pleased at all with them lately. Last time I emailed them asking what the difference was between the Lucas and Bosch Injectors, all I got was "Bosch is a better Injector". Yeah thanks idiots. That REALLY helps me out. They're customer service is shit IMO.

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:23 pm

I haven't been too happy with them either. I especially hate how the prices they show on their website change when you click the actual product. Here's an example of what I mean. Downpipe shows as $120, but when I click it it gets bumped up to $140 MINIMUM.

FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) - Page 7 Untitl10

FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) - Page 7 Untitl10

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:25 pm

Abaddon wrote:: That doesn't sound right. Dyno time is dyno time. What they tune during the session is what you're paying for. I see no reason to buy anything else from them. I haven't been pleased at all with them lately. Last time I emailed them asking what the difference was between the Lucas and Bosch Injectors, all I got was "Bosch is a better Injector". Yeah thanks idiots. That REALLY helps me out. They're customer service is shit IMO.

wow..

They are telling me that it will cost more in dyno time to get me to a base tune than it would to load the 1.0 PCM.

So I ask them, well, since I am paying for dyno time and for parts and install for the cam, can't you just load the 1.0 for me and we will tune from there?

They said I have to pay for it before we start tuning..... come on..

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:48 pm

You're just paying for their "expertise" on the 3800 platform... The only thing I would even consider letting them do is the cam after reading all of this. There's probably plenty of good dyno shops around you that would do it for way less than what ZZP wants.

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Apr 02, 2014 1:50 pm

Kinda need to get the thing tuned before I drive it home, tho

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:08 pm

Does anyone have the ZZP 1.0 PCM .hpt file or want to split the cost with me?

Curious to open it up and compare it to mine..

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:54 pm

Please help me understand why my KR drops as my RPM and TPS increase. There is only 1 KR spike after I am WOT. Any ideas why? Shouldnt KR increase as RPMs increase?

Does it have to do with the LTFT #?
FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) - Page 7 Captur10

FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) - Page 7 Captur10

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:36 pm

KR is applied immediately when knock is heard. It doesn't immediately go away as soon as the knock is suppressed though, it decays slowly. So you should always see it slope down after you get your KR peak(s). What you have is some reoccurring KR. It's hearing knock, retarding timing, then once the timing starts to come back up as KR decays, it's hearing more knock again and so you get that stair-stepping kinda stuff in your graph. Definitely got some knock there to work on.

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:04 pm

turtleman wrote:: KR is applied immediately when knock is heard. It doesn't immediately go away as soon as the knock is suppressed though, it decays slowly. So you should always see it slope down after you get your KR peak(s). What you have is some reoccurring KR. It's hearing knock, retarding timing, then once the timing starts to come back up as KR decays, it's hearing more knock again and so you get that stair-stepping kinda stuff in your graph. Definitely got some knock there to work on.

But look at the timing graph. it doesnt go back up, it keeps going down as KR decays.

Do I have a lean condition? Is my LTFT a clue?

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:03 pm

Do I have this right? When it comes to tuning, is the name of the game to advance the hot spark timing table as high as you can without causing knock? Up each cell to it's max but keep KR at 0?

Is that what this is all about?

I changed my hot octane spark table by upping timing in each cell by 2%. I FELT an instant power increase across the band. Do I just keep pushing my timing until I see knock and then adjust as needed to keep timing high and KR zilch?

here's my timing table now. I am getting minimal KR with this tune but a definite increase in power and MPGs. I am shocked. I dont know how else to explain my results. I feel the power and I see my gas tank staying fuller.

FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) - Page 7 Captur11

FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) - Page 7 Captur11

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:19 am

You don't want to necessarily go as high as possible. There are theoretical 'optimal' timing settings based on RPM and cylinder pressure to have the explosion happen at just the right time. That's really where you want it to be.

For emissions reasons GM makes their "acceleration pump" action a bit lean. I can't remember the setting, but it's basically fuel enrichment for throttle movement. When you snap the throttle open a blip of extra fuel is added to counter the rush of air. That is off a bit giving you the KR spike on throttle movement. One thing you can easily change is the rate at which KR ramps down. (again, I forget the name of the setting but it's in various tuning guides).

There's a book by Greg Banish - http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Management-Advanced-Greg-Banish/dp/1932494421 I highly recommend it as he covers all of those factors. He doesn't get specific to any particular tuning software. It's worth the $15.

Subject: Re: FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:46 pm

Thanks, Deek. Do you still have that upload URL where I can look through the files and stuff?
Is that a sticky somewhere?

How do I know what is optimum for my setup?

Looking at this scan, does it seem like the shifting of gears caused a false positive KR response?
Why else would KR spike when RPMs drop? Did the transmission trigger the KR microphones?
FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) - Page 7 Captur12

FAQ: How to tune the PCM? (Series II SC) - Page 7 Captur12

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