Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security

I ended up having the car towed. Since it was only a few miles away, it didn't cost as much as I feared. The Riv is back in the garage and unmolested, other than the wires I cut last night. That parts an easy enough fix.

It's going to wait awhile on this job while I handle another repair project and get caught up with work.

I'll try to give you guys a better description of the problem in a bit. Right now I'm just happy to have it back and safe again. I was having visions of the situation spiraling into disaster. A thief coming along and smashing a window to get in, severe weather that was forecast for this morning raining into the interior or dropping hail. Murphy's Law is not known for kindness. I feel like I got off easy this time.

AA - I agree, the problem could be in the ignition switch, not the pass key II module. I haven't proven cutting the white and black wire doesn't work if it's only the pass key II module malfunctioning.

Glad you got her home safe and sound Jack!

Quote :

Not so, Aaron - the cycle repeats...

The cycle repeats if you use the wrong key, but usually it starts intermittently. People who have this problem usually experience the 3 minute delay.

Quote :

And just to get the information out there:

I've read it - a portion is posted on page 6 of this thread.

I think if it's the security module at fault, clipping the blk/wht wire will fix. If it's the lock cylinder, wiring in the resistor will fix. Or, it could be another problem altogether. Jack, I read your posts. I cannot find where you saw the Security lamp illuminate. Did it?

Is this the same for a 92?

Aaand it appears the correct answer was "battery."

After charging for six hours it started right up, no problem. The security light flashed while the engine was cranking and then went out (the white and black wire is still cut).

I top off the battery every weekend, and I charged it the day before I got stuck. That was good for one start.

I'll give it a few trys tomorrow and see what happens.

Kind of an odd answer, but there it is. The Optima is a few years old, and maybe it was damaged the couple times I let the security system run it down. It seems like the charge has been dropping off too fast lately. I don't know much about how lead acid batteries die, but I had a few LiPo batteries die, and they'd act fully charged, after being fully charged, for about 10-30 seconds before rapidly dropping off.

I bought the delete chip from ebay that wires into the PCM to enable the injectors. I will post results when I install it. I believe I will also have to add a jumper on the starter relay. From the comments ive read this chip works perfect.

BlownRiv wrote:

I bought the delete chip from ebay that wires into the PCM to enable the injectors. I will post results when I install it. I believe I will also have to add a jumper on the starter relay. From the comments ive read this chip works perfect.

A delete chip ??

Yeah VATS is useless and causes annoying problems. There is always a thought its going to break on a long trip and strand you. I opt to get rid of it.

Here is what I bought
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220743509407&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:MOTORS:1123

i'm gettin one.

robotennis61 wrote:

i'm gettin one.

hey robo, if you look way back in this thread you'll find others posting about the "delete chip" - you might sure want to read the old posts before you buy the chip.

hint: when is a chip not a chip... ?

I give up

If you read the feedback that has been left by well over 20 people on the ebay link I posted. It seems to be good to me. Swap guys use the product all the time. Even on fbody forums I have never seen anyone complaining. Unless your getting a PCM programmed to have vates deleted I see it as the perfect option.

albertj wrote:

robotennis61 wrote:

i'm gettin one.

hint: when is a chip not a chip... ?

It's not a resistor "chip". It simply enables the injectors to turn on. You don't need to measure any resistance for this. Some years require you to add a jumper to the starter relay.

So far 3 starts for 3 attempts since charging the battery. I'm scratching my head on this one, because I know I charged that battery the day before the non-start problem happened, and I charged it a week before that. I only got one start out of the car on that charge. Yet now I've gone a week since the last charge, and started the car 3 times. WTF?

Hello,
For the two years I've owned my '97 Riviera, every once in a long while the car would not start, not even crank. I would try at a later time and the engine would start normally. I have replaced the starter and started to think about the neutral safety switch (every time it hasn't started I cycled the shifter through all the gears, but it never made the engine start). I'm wondering if the safety feature in the key might be causing this. Are these known to cause problems?
Thanks,
Mikel

Could be a bad crankshaft position sensor.

Try this: next time it happens, wait 2 minutes and try again. If the car doesn't crank, wait one more minute and try again. If it starts, this is probably an intermittent error in the security system. The security system sets a delay of 3 minutes before resetting.

If it doesn't start after 3 minutes, it could be any number of things, including the ignition lock cylinder, or bad power/ground wiring.

98Riv, wouldn't the engine crank with a bad CPS?

AA, Interesting theory! My alarm does have a mind of its own. Will try it!

Thank you both./

Also, watch for the security lamp when the car decides not to start.

Mikel wrote:

98Riv, wouldn't the engine crank with a bad CPS?

AA, Interesting theory! My alarm does have a mind of its own. Will try it!

Thank you both./

Not necessarily. Here is a thread about it https://rivperformance.editboard.com/t368-faq-crankshaft-position-sensor-dtc-p0336. Sometimes it won't crank at all. I have read that you usually experience other signs such as a crazy rpm gauge and traction control light turning on.

My CPS died last summer and was replaced then. Before that, occasionally the engine would crank and not start at all. It all went away with the new sensor. Thanks.

Mikel wrote:

My CPS died last summer and was replaced then. Before that, occasionally the engine would crank and not start at all. It all went away with the new sensor. Thanks.

GIven the age of the car I am thinking ig switch.

Easiest way to tell is to connect the car to a Tech II or the new factory laptop software and watch what happens during start when key is turned and it won't crank. You would not get the KO signal if the ig switch is punk. Now of course the problem here is it's an intermittent. So the game would be to find a scanner to borrow that lets you see those factory specific data.

Maybe Abaddon or someone else has some thoughts on this.

Could check with a meter too at the harness connector from the column to the main harness and using a voltmeter - would be awkward setting the probes in but do you think it could be done it you pull the driver under-dash trim panel and maybe use IC-style probes (little springloaded hooks in plunger thingies) or probe pins to backprobe the connectors? Need a wiring diagram to be sure you're reading the right wires to check the state of the ig switch during cranking.

Pass key system (wiring/module/key)
If you have a spare ignition key keep it on hand, the next time it doesnt start try the other key. Another thing you might want to try is spraying electrical contact cleaner into the key hole of the ignition. Also spray the key with the cleaner and insert it into the ignition a few times.

It happened again today and what do you know...? The Security light was on and a few minutes later it started. Thank you all.

BlownRiv wrote:

Yeah VATS is useless and causes annoying problems. There is always a thought its going to break on a long trip and strand you. I opt to get rid of it.

Here is what I bought
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220743509407&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:MOTORS:1123

Ok I installed this yesterday and my riv fired right up. It works perfect. I pulled the starter relay completely and jumped the connection. All this considering I bought this car with no keys. So this method is a perfect fix. Again all this does is sends a signal to the PCM to allow the injectors to fire. Then the relay bypass allows you to crank. Only issue is the security light blinks at all times now. Passkey 1-2 is trash and I would get rid of it before your left stranded. These things always fail regardless of what you do.