Write-Up: No Start + 3 min delay / Disabling PASS-Key II Security

Does the SECURITY lamp illuminate when you are trying to start the car? Does it help to wait 3 mins and try again?

Yes it's on while I'm cranking, if it's not going to start it blinks and I hear clicking under the rear seat. It does help to wait and try again sometimes I just leave the key on until the lamp goes off

Does it actually try to crank when the light blinks, or just clicking?

Just clicking

Your post has been merged. There has been quite a few who've contributed on this issue. I posted a write-up on page 12 may be of some help. My solution hasn't worked for everyone, but I solved my problem. No harm in trying. Best of luck.

I noticed my security light comes on sometimes while driving... is there a problem ???

dpmeeks wrote:

I noticed my security light comes on sometimes while driving... is there a problem ???

Yes. Search "security light" on the site there are several threads with good answers.

mine was doing that and I saw on here that it can happen if the ignition key is not all the way in. I've been more careful about that and it hasn't done it since I found that out. Hopefully thats your problem too.

There is a really good thread with a writeup by Aaron.

Seems there could be two issues: one stemming from a worn key or lock cylinder (causing an problem with the system reading the correct resistance from the pellet) the other could stem from the security module itself. Aaron figured out which wire to cut so that it, essentially, disabled the module. The security light would remain on but you wouldn't have to worry about the system stranding you somewhere. You can always pull the bulb out of the cluster to now have to look at that pesky light.

hth

cool.. thanks demonte

Phil, there's actually a possibility that's so simple it gets overlooked and never posted:

A few months ago my own Security light started coming on randomly, but it took a while before the car wouldn't start... When that happened, my first inclination was to look at the resistor-pellet in the shaft of the key. Sure enough, the plastic 'module' that holds the resistor had gotten loose enough to move back in forth in the key. That simply moved it off center and made the contacts in the ignition lock lose contact... Check your key pellet to see if it will move side to side and if so, use a little Krazy Glue to hold it back in position.

That's a better idea. Definitely start with the simple solution first. Come to think of it, I should check the resistor pellet in my key to see if it is loose.

My Riv came with two keys. Easy to rule out a bad pellet.

I havent had anymore problems yet, i cleaned out the keyway, im planning on getting another key made..

If i had a slightly bent key,would that present security light to pop up and have starting isues?i noticed my key was slightly bent and i dont know if the problem is fixed but i havent seen security light wince, and iv been havi g issues starting up,like bad the key is perfectly straight now

I'm a new Riviera Performance member. What a great resource this is for Riviera owners!

I've recently experienced a Pass Key ll security system related starting problem on my 1997 Riviera SC3800. I never experienced a "no start" issue with the 151K mile 1995 Riviera SC3800 which I recently sold, so I was surprised to have it occurr repeatedly on my '97 with only 35K miles. The "no start" condition progressed from a once in a great while occurrence to perhaps 1 in every 3 starting attempts. Approximately 3 minutes after each "no start", the car would start normally. The troubleshooting approach I took, my findings and opinions, and a recommended "fix" for this condition follows with my hope that many (probably not all) Riviera Performance members will benefit from same.

I'd read through all 19 pages of this forum related to "no starts" and the Pass Key ll security system, and also consulted my FSM before deciding on my troubleshooting aproach (an approach which I revised as I proceeded). Initially I checked the cleanliness of the key mounted resistor contacts and the mating contacts in the ignition switch cylinder lock (these contacts resemble little pads, and since the key resistor contacts wipe accross these pads, I'll refer to them hereinafter as "wiper pads"). Although the contact surfaces all appeared to be relatively clean, I cleaned them with alcohol as recommended by Albertj. This seemed to have a positive affect at first, but the "no start" malfunctions continued. I cleaned all the contact surfaces a second time and inspected the "wiper pads" with a bright light and a magnifying glass - they were CLEAN! But again, the "no start" condition persisted.

One of the FSM recommendations pertaining to troubleshooting circuits is to check for improperly connected, contaminated, or corroded connectors. This reinforced some past experiences I'd had on other vehicles and trailers. Based on FSM wiring diagrams/schematics I determined there are two connectors in the wiring circuits from the "wiper pads" to the Pass Key ll decoder module, one at the base of the steering column and the second at the decoder module. I decided to take each connector apart, or off as appropriate, and inspect it. I found the connector pair at the base of the steering column has numerous wires connected to them. I judged that the stiffness of the wires would make it very difficult to separate the connector halves so as to be able to perform an inspection. Further, the exterior of this connector pair was pristine. I therefore elected to not disassemble this connector and to replace the "inspection" aspect of my troubleshooting effort with "measurement" of the continuity and resistance of the circuitry from the "wiper pads" to the decoder module.

The decoder module is located at the right hand end of, and under, the dash; just above the kick panel. To access it, and the connection to it, requires removal of the glove box and door, the PCM and PCM bracket, the HVAC programmer module and bracket, and a small air duct. The decoder module is installed on the back side of the HVAC bracket. Upon removal of the decoder module connector I again revised my troubleshooting approach. I inserted my Fluke multimeter probes in the two connector cavities associated with the wire leads from the "wiper pads", i.e., cavity B7 for the purple/white wire and cavity B8 for the white/black wire. With the multimeter on the ohms scale and a key in the ignition switch lock cylinder I reasoned I could, as a first measurement, measure all of the resistance in the circuit. This is the same resistance which the decoder module measures and compares to a reference value internal to the module. My two keys each nominally measures 3000 ohms (one is 3001 ohms, the other 2994 ohms). So ideally I expected to read about 3000 ohms on the multimeter. The initial reading I got was 3650 ohms. AHA!! high resistance somewhere in the circuit! I wriggled the key in the lock cylinder with only negligible change in the measured resistance. Next, I retracted the key, rotated it 1/2 turn and reinserted it. 3400 ohms now showed on the meter. I retracted the key again, reinserted it, retracted it, and reinserted it. The multimeter read 3005 ohms. EUREKA!!!! high resistance at the key resistor to "wiper pads" interface. For good measure I retracted the key and reinserted it a number of times more. I repeated the test using my second key with slightly different resistance values showing on the multimeter but with a final reading of 3000 ohms. I removed my probes from the decoder module connector and reconnected it to the decoder module. I started the car four times without a hiccup.

These findings imply to me that although the key resistor contacts and "wiper pads" appear clean to the eye there is a layer or film on the surface(s) which prevent intimate electrical ("0" resistance) contact. When this layer is scoured away, intimate electrical contact is restored.
I have no knowledge of what metals were used in the fabrication of the key resistor contacts or the "wiper pads". Regardless of the material that was employed and after much thinking about "what, why, how" my supposition is that the surface layer is an oxide of the underlying parent material. Oxides typically have greater resistivity than their parent material; which would explain the high initial resistance values I measured. But whatever it is, its probably happening on a microscopic level (since it required minimal scouring to break through it) and might require lab work to positively identify. OR, I could be "all wet".

Before getting to my recommended "fix", I thought I would first mention what I did immediately following my troubleshooting. I went the OVERKILL route. In lieu of using a normal starting procedure, I was planning to perform the following procedure 50 times: Fully insert the key, retract it 3/8", fully insert it, retract it 3/8", fully insert it, retract it 3/8", fully insert it, rotate the key and lock cylinder to the "start" position. (The 3/8" movement of the key is all that's necessary to move the key resistor contacts completely accross the "wiper pads" and break contact). I ended up performing this procedure 36 times before deciding it was indeed overkill. Nevertheless, the car started 36 times in a row without a malfunction over about a 10 day period. During this time I had convinced myself that, as mentioned earlier, the surface I needed to scour was very shallow, perhaps only molecule(s) deep. Further, it evidently takes a relatively long time to form. So in retrospect all I was probably accomplishing with my 36 procedures is wearing away more parent material. Following these 36 "overkill" procedures, I returned to a normal start procedure. I'm at 27 normal starts and counting without a malfunction.

I wish I had another car that was handy and that was experiencing starting problems associated with the Pass Key ll security system so that I could try my recommended "fix" on it and prove it successful (or not) before publishing it here. This "fix" will probably not work for everyone, because there will be those instances where the connection in a connector has gone bad, the key resistor contacts or the "wiper pads" are worn away, the Pass Key ll decoder module has failed, a wire has been cut or grounded, etc. etc. These and similar failures will require more troubleshooting and alternative corrective actions. One other VERY BIG assumption that I'm making here is that the condition that I've experienced with my Riviera is not unique and that other Rivieras (and other Buicks or GM cars for that matter) which use the Pass Key ll security system have similar, if not identical, conditions. In hopes that my experience will benefit others with this condition, my recommended "fix" is as follows:

1. Clean the key resistor contacts and ignition switch cylinder contacts ("wiper pads") with alcohol as per Albertj's recommendations.
2. Fully insert one of your keys into the ignition switch lock cylinder, retract it 3/8", fully insert it, retract it 3/8", fully insert it, retract it 3/8", fully insert it.
3. Retract the key, rotate it 1/2 turn, and perform the same drill as in step 2.
4. Attempt to start the car using a normal starting procedure, i.e. insert key then rotate key and ignition switch lock cylinder to the "start" position.
5. If car fails to start normally, repeat steps 2 and 3, two more times each. Then repeat step 4.
6. Repeat steps 1 through 5 as necessary using alternative key(s).

Obviously, you may repeat the steps as many times as you like, but the more times you do so in an attempt to get the car to start normally, the less likely it is that you have a condition equivalent to mine. In that case, perhaps the addition of a resistor to the circuit, as discussed earlier in this forum would be a good choice to correct your condition.

I'd very much like to hear back from anyone who trys this "fix" to determine if it worked for you or not. Good luck!

My 95 eventually stopped turning over completely due to security issues. I did the "resistor-bypass method" and now my car with start but dies within 5 seconds. I thought maybe it had to do with fuel injectors and my "quick-fix." Please help!

mkarr wrote:

My 95 eventually stopped turning over completely due to security issues. I did the "resistor-bypass method" and now my car with start but dies within 5 seconds. I thought maybe it had to do with fuel injectors and my "quick-fix." Please help!

car needs fuel, spark and air to run... start with dying usually means fuel issue, sometimes spark issue, rarely air issue... here are some ideas to try:

- check the airway - clean air filter, installed right.
- check the fuel - is the fuel pump running and building pressure? This is easiest to check at a GM dealer with a Tech II or Tech I scanner
- check the spark - actually the wiring harness at the ignition module, check wiring at terminals for a break
- check wiring to the crank sensor - has anyone been working on the car and disturbed the crank sensor wiring?

...any other ideas folks?

the only thing we have done to it is clip the wires and wire in resistor. ive heard that doesn't always solve the problem, but now at least it start up every time, it just won't stay running.

Google newrockies.com. I installed this product because the security system on my 95 Riv created all kinds of headaches for me including no-start and engine cut-out a couple of years ago when I first bought it. I am not good at things electrical. This fix is not for everyone. I do not work for the Newrockies nor did I benefit in any way other than it fixed my problem for good. Alot of people on this forum have the skill, time and tools to fix this security related issue. I didn't. I am simply offering a possible alternative and nothing more. Good luck.

mkarr wrote:

the only thing we have done to it is clip the wires and wire in resistor. ive heard that doesn't always solve the problem, but now at least it start up every time, it just won't stay running.

That is, your problem is not necessarily security, but if it is all you really have to do is read the earlier pages on this thread to see answers with photos and instructions. ...which is why I posted the bit about spark, fuel and air. I assume you read the earlier posts on this thread and tried it, because you posted that you wired in a resistor. So, have you checked spark/fuel/air yet? I can't do it for you, you have to do it yourself or hire it done...

Peace out

Albertj

gee, thanks.......

mkarr wrote:

gee, thanks.......

it's an important part of solving your problem. When it dies/won't start, do you have fuel pressure? Do you have spark? That tells us if the fuel pump is stopped (one direction of troubleshooting) or if there is no spark (a different direction of troubleshooting)

deekster_caddy wrote:

mkarr wrote:

gee, thanks.......

it's an important part of solving your problem. When it dies/won't start, do you have fuel pressure? Do you have spark? That tells us if the fuel pump is stopped (one direction of troubleshooting) or if there is no spark (a different direction of troubleshooting)

thanks Deekster - Melissa, here is a little more detail.

First - is your 'check engine' or 'service engine soon' light on? If so, the stored codes may indicate problem areas, and you should get the codes read (you need to buy or borrow a reader for this) and post what they are.

If there are no codes... for instance it could be that if you normally run the car with the fuel tank fairly empty (less than 1/3 tank), then the fuel pump can overheat somewhat but not immediately to the point of failure. What often happens is that after many hours (not contiguous) of running with the tank nearly empty the fuel pump will work a while at startup (it's cold) then quit/fail when it tries to maintain pressure in the fuel system (it's warm). This is because the Riv's fuel pump depends on the fuel for cooling. You can't continually run it with low fuel levels or the fuel pump will eventually overheat and fail.

In order to get further in the troubleshooting, then, you really do have to check spark/fuel/air yourself or hire it done...

To check air, easiest place to start is to open up the air cleaner and see if it is really dirty or clogged. Sometimes in cars parked a long time, rodents build nests in the air boxes, tending to block them. The reduced air flow causes many cars with Bosch-designed systems (as ours is) to shut down when the mass air flow sensor detects inadequate flow. Then you want to check the throttle body to see if it is terribly dirty. When you open up the air cleaner, you will have to move the air horn (that rubber tube). Since you have to move the air horn anyway, what you can do is pull the air horn away from the throttle body by tugging on the flange. You will then have to remove the screen to look in the throttle body, for this a pair of snap-ring pliers is needed to get the ring that holds the screen out. It will probably look clean in there - but tip the throttle plate in to look behind it. If it has a layer of grime or tar then you'll need to remove the throttle body and clean it. Cleaner is available at auto parts stores (DO NOT use Carburetor cleaner! just coating-safe throttle body cleaner). You may need special Torx bit to take off the throttle body - you will have to look at the screws and check. If someone worked on it before they might have used slot or phillips head screw, or allen-head screws, instead of Torx head. While we are on the subject, maybe check the MAF by swapping in a known good one from a junkyard.

To check fuel, you will need to obtain (borrow/rent/buy) a pressure gauge and check fuel pressure at the fuel rail, or use a scanner (NOT a code reader) that will obtain the readings from the factory sensors.

To check spark, you will need to check all the coil posts for shorts to ground with an ohmmeter first. If you have a coil with secondary shorted to ground you have to replace it. (I doubt this is the problem) Then rent or buy an ignition spark tester (see http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lisle-19380-Spark-Tester/17013379) to see if there is a usable spark.

ok i have been looking long and hard on this vats/passkey issue for my 1997 Riviera. I have been living with the problem for longer than i can remember and i have decided enough is enough. I have got to do something and get rid of this thing. I was going to go the route of the resistor in the harnesses but have decided maybe there is another way to overcome these problems. what i am wanting to do it ground the park/neutral switch in effect stopping the decoder module from keeping the the starter enable relay from working. Please someone who knows about this help guide me in the right direction.