ticking noise, scuffed valve spring retainers

stock rockers



YT roller rockers



valvespring compressor that is way too wide for the LS_ style retainers so I used an antenne tool as a washer since I didnt have any good washers to use for it



that's pretty much the two extremes for the hight. Those are both with the cc105 springs and the new intense retainers. One has the new keepers and the other has the old ones.

Very noticeable difference in valve stem height. Don't even have to measure it to tell.
I'm assuming the OLD ZZP compcams ones are on the left and NEW compcams keepers are on the right.?

Rickw wrote:

I'm assuming the new ones are on the left and OEM on the right.?
Or when you say "OLD" keepers do you mean old ZZP CC keepers.?

old = the first set of zzp-compcams keepers I just took off

And which keepsers did you put back on?

Now I have all the new compcams ones I just got on and they all look level

I wonder why there is such a difference with the same manufacturer.
I'll bet that was my problem. I never considered the keepers to be the problem at the time so I re-used the OEM retainers with the new comp cams HD keepers..
Now I think I'll pull everything apart and install the modded CC retainers with stock OEM keepers and see what the valve stem height looks like, only because I was told the OEM retainers further compress the springs an additional .080" and could break a spring or take out the timing chain dampener prematurely.

Modded or LS retainers do give you additional clearnance. I saw the measured difference at the machine shop. But the locks..hmmm

Turtle,
In the last pic you posted, on this page, your showing the assembled springs with the LS style retainers and the one valve has the old ZZP heavy Duty keepers and the other valve has the same retainer with the New ZZP keepers or locks.(whatever you prefer to call them)
Correct.!!!
1.) I know it's been a while but, do you remember whether the valve on the left has the old or new keepers.?
2..) I'm trying to figure out which one did you end up using.? The set-up that provided the higher valve stem height (the one on the right) or the lower valve stem height on the left of the picture.

The reason I'm asking is that I finally got around to having the OEM retainers replaced with the Manley retainers that are now available from Intense. ( LS Style)
BillBoost did the swap for me (due to my back) and we took some measurements using combination's of everything that is available. Stock, ZZP and Intense, as far as checking valve spring height available with combination's of all 3 retainers as well as stock and HD keepers.
None of the arrangements we could do showed a valve stem height as high as the one on the right in your picture.
The reason I'm curious about that one pic or more precisely that one valve with the stem protruding so high out of the retainer is that it would cause much more spring compression than the one that doesn't have the valve protruding so high.
This was the sole reason for me to change retainers because I was warned that the OEM retainer will cause too much static spring compression and tension causing an early failure of many things including the valve chain tensioner, by putting too much stress on the valve springs.
It will also cause the valve seats to be beat up quickly, etc.
After using a stock head on the bench and doing all the measurements, we did find a measurable difference between the LS Style (Manley) retainer, the ZZP modified retainers and the OEM. So I am glad that we changed retainers and hope that about 6,000 miles hasn't caused any undue problems. I don't hear or feel any problems, engine runs great. But I will be considering to change the timing chain and tensioner the next time I find myself close to that area. Such as a water pump change will get me half way there.
Please let me know if you can remember.
Thanks.

I'm pretty sure the right one, where the stem is sticking up over the retainer, is the after.

I see where you're coming from with the resting height but I don't have any good way of measuring anything to really know what's going on. Frankly, I was happy just to have everything looking about even and not making noise when I was done. When I was compressing the valves to replace the retainers and keepers, I was having problems with the retainers not wanting to compress down past the keepers because the retainers were mushrooming at the inside edges where the keepers had to fit through. This mushrooming was evidently because the retainers were being pushed by the rockers which is NEVER supposed to happen so I was definitely ok with having the stems sticking up past the retainers more.

If anyone's got some reference pics of there's, I'd love to see what they all look like. The other thing is the Intense retainers were a good bit different than the zzp ones. Perhaps my pic on the right is how it is supposed to look with that retainer. I dunno though - I don't have much to go on.

turtleman wrote:

I'm pretty sure the right one, where the stem is sticking up over the retainer, is the after.

I see where you're coming from with the resting height but I don't have any good way of measuring anything to really know what's going on. Frankly, I was happy just to have everything looking about even and not making noise when I was done. When I was compressing the valves to replace the retainers and keepers, I was having problems with the retainers not wanting to compress down past the keepers because the retainers were mushrooming at the inside edges where the keepers had to fit through. This mushrooming was evidently because the retainers were being pushed by the rockers which is NEVER supposed to happen so I was definitely ok with having the stems sticking up past the retainers more.

If anyone's got some reference pics of there's, I'd love to see what they all look like. The other thing is the Intense retainers were a good bit different than the zzp ones. Perhaps my pic on the right is how it is supposed to look with that retainer. I dunno though - I don't have much to go on.

Well, Bill took pictures of all the possible configurations.
Once he has some time, I'll ask him to post them in this thread for future reference by all.

Hey Codith,
Did you know what happened to the photo's of your assembled springs on this page.
They were here yesterday.
Do you think you can try and correct this and I'm going to ask Bill to add the pictures we took this weekend as well.
Thanks

As of this moment, they are back but I didn't do anything. I don't know what's going on with em