Rear Body Mounts..CHEAP MOD!!!!

there is no denying that a total suspension package is prefered. of course a stiffening of the front is in the works but my focus is to modify the rear. no doubt the rancho idea is a valid one, but i prefer to go the bilstein way. not because i think the rancho is inferior to bilstein but imo the bilstein mod is a little easyer than the rancho mod. when i post pics of this you will see what i mean.as far as the stb? why not? itl go along well with my plans. but along with the bilstein mod my next order of business is to isolate and secure the r.s.s.a. but if a complete handling package is what one wants, with no compromise,doing away with the soft body mounts,front and rear,is a good place to start. good handling is a progressive thing. if one adds a complete handling mod onto the riv one might find a car that is unbalanced. but from where i stand starting from the back works for me. if the cars back end comes around too quick,after i do all that i plan to do,then i can progressivly work on the front to correct that, i could say...add harder control arm bushings? or a stiffer s.b or harder front cradle mounts. this way I can control the amount of under/oversteer the car has. but i dont believe the front has to be modified before the rear does. the front stb made a big difference allready for me. as far as my kyb,s i think they too are softly damped. when i compare them to bilsteins that ive ridden in the past anyway. so maybe a bilstein for the front is possible? i cant believe that in bilsteins huge inventory they dont have a pair for the front that i cant make fit? maybe with some modification. if i remember correctly my legend had mcpherson struts too. and the design was not far from the rivs, with the exception of the springs being a smaller diameter. also the bilsteins that i plan to instal are only 18.5" long! shorter and lighter than stock!.....but i hear ya buddy...i hear ya..

I'd love to see a Bilstein mod for the front. I agree that the front STB tightens it up a bunch. Keep in mind that I've got front and rear STB's. What I don't have is sway bars and KYB's (not available for 97). If I had a front sway bar and the KYB's maybe I'd feel the need to push the back again, I dunno. With what I've got, with the Rancho's turned up to 6 and the rear STB, the balance of the suspension is changed so much that I'm worried the back end might just come around on me. Maybe I'm being too cautious, but it's a street driven vehicle. "Better safe than kill someone."

I get the feeling we're pushing braking and handling mods to the point where we need to get out on a track with an expert and make sure they're dialed in right and safe.

BTW I don't mean to discourage you at all, but there's lower hanging fruit you could be picking if you know what I mean. With the suspension I've got, and the non-performance tires I've got, most of the time the limit is not the car but public roads with no shoulder, possibility of child/pet/deer popping up at any moment, lack of visibility. The only real reason I'd build my car up further is to keep up with the Joneses around here. Which I'll probably due because I'm stupid

Quote :

I get the feeling we're pushing braking and handling mods to the point where we need to get out on a track with an expert and make sure they're dialed in right and safe.

Agree. I'm trying to get the Riv ready for autocross this year, but don't know if it will happen. Lot of things going on, and I think I'm due for another set of KYBs for the front. Maybe do the springs then, too.

I'd like to hear more about this elevatorish floating rear cradle you are seeing. I was doing my brakes today and played around with the rear cradle a LOT and it doesn't have any vertical movement besides the bushings compressing home, which is pretty slight.

maybe the 98 is different? the r.s.s.a on mine has movement. and there is nothing mechanically wrong with the stock setup. but even if the r.s.s.a moves a centimeter thats too much. did you lift the side of the car and place a jack under the r.s.s.a? road handling cars, have the control arms solidly mounted to the chassis for more control. like double a arms for example. on my acura legend. the rear set up was much like the the rivs , it had 2 panhard bars,gm refers to them as trailing links. on the acura i replaced them with chromemoly bars threaded at both ends with spherical bearings, it was a simple swap out. bilsteins and eibachs lowered 1.5" also replaced the rear bushings with poly,and that did it! there was no need for a stiffer sway bar. but all these links were solidly mounted the the chassis. that was a big advantage to modification. the car was absolutely dialed in. for the front all i did was replace the front control arms with delrin nylon and poly bushings for the radius rod. this is what im attempting to replicate with the riv. the only stumbling block for me is the r.s.s.a. this week im comited to fabricating a set up that will fit the rear bilsteins...... this is also why im taking small steps with my mods so as not end up with a car that wants to spin out in the corners. any mod i do ill make sure to test it throughly to avoid set ups that cant be returned to stock. ive avoided welding for this reason. my riv will be a test bed for suspension mods and ill report back with pics and road test......if any body is interested they can replicate what i did....fair enough?

I have the whole car off the ground, and I've been playing with the jack under the subframe. However, I just realized I have the jack stands under the front of the subframe, so the subframe is not completely free. I will move the jack stands to the body before I put it down and see how much that subframe moves. It's certainly possible that the '95 is different from the '98, but usually they keep the suspension basically the same for a platform...

Keep in mind that this is a 'luxury' car by design, not a sports car. The platform is shared with later Park Avenue, Aurora and STS. You are of course, welcome to try any improvements you may! Even after adding the front STB and Addco sway bar, plus rear Addco sway, I think the body leans too much in the corners. A lot less than it used to, but then again, if I wanted it to handle that much better I would have bought an uncomfortable grand prix or regal instead. I really like the way my car is performing right now, but no it's not an autocross machine.

i hear ya..modifying my acura,designated a luxury sports coupe,i had the same thoughts,how much harsher is this going to make the ride? i studied the problem and began to modify slowly,a mod here,a mod there, what i wound up with was a car that blew my mind every time i climbed in her. being from n.y i found tons of lonlely spots to push the car,no way i could keep up with a true sports car like a porsch or a vette,but i did give souped up integras and a couple audis and saabs even stangs a lesson or 2 in the corners. my legend topped out at 140mph and the mods went right along with that speed and never once did i feel that the car might bite me! and much to my surprise these mods did not add a level of harshness that was in any way unaceptable. the feeling was close to maybe 5 to 10 extra lbs in the tires. granted, im riding on kumho solus tires and they are way more mushy than this class of car deserves,but was all i could afford at the time. performance meats are in the plans too.....

deekster_caddy wrote:

I have the whole car off the ground, and I've been playing with the jack under the subframe. However, I just realized I have the jack stands under the front of the subframe, so the subframe is not completely free. I will move the jack stands to the body before I put it down and see how much that subframe moves. It's certainly possible that the '95 is different from the '98, but usually they keep the suspension basically the same for a platform...

Keep in mind that this is a 'luxury' car by design, not a sports car. The platform is shared with later Park Avenue, Aurora and STS. You are of course, welcome to try any improvements you may! Even after adding the front STB and Addco sway bar, plus rear Addco sway, I think the body leans too much in the corners. A lot less than it used to, but then again, if I wanted it to handle that much better I would have bought an uncomfortable grand prix or regal instead. I really like the way my car is performing right now, but no it's not an autocross machine.

I don't believe the rear STB on its own will make a huge difference. It made a difference in combination with the ranchos.

deekster_caddy wrote:

I have the whole car off the ground, and I've been playing with the jack under the subframe. However, I just realized I have the jack stands under the front of the subframe, so the subframe is not completely free. I will move the jack stands to the body before I put it down and see how much that subframe moves.

So Derek,
What did you find, anything????

Rickw wrote:

deekster_caddy wrote:

I have the whole car off the ground, and I've been playing with the jack under the subframe. However, I just realized I have the jack stands under the front of the subframe, so the subframe is not completely free. I will move the jack stands to the body before I put it down and see how much that subframe moves.

So Derek,
What did you find, anything????

haven't got home from work yet. Will be on it tonight!

Okay, so I had the body supported and moved the jack around under the rear subframe. The front portion definitely moves a surprising amount vertically, but the rear doesn't move very much, maybe 1/2 inch at most. The front is supported by large rubber bushings near the outside of the car, and the bushings do move up and down quite a bit. This explains why when I put the rear sway bar in, the handling improved quite a bit, but the body still rolls noticeably.

Well, start with the rear sway bar, and see what you can do about the body movement. I'm curious what you come up with, now that I've seen it firsthand.

i honestly dont believe that gm had any idea that a bunch of enthusiasts would adopt this car and make her more than what she was created for. a pleasant ride in the country..a slow cruise along a quiet beach front..stowing $500 worth of groceries in the trunk with room to spare....an isolated luxurious ride through city streets..ok for my mom and dad..but not for me! ill be damned if gm dictates what i can buy and for what purpose..sure they will say...buy a vette man! well.. bring the price down on that flexy can ..and maybe i will? im going to turn old bessy into a corner carving horny latina! you wait and see! and when she,s ready for the streets..ill find a gm exec hog tie his ass ..and trow im in da trunk..and say " we are going for a ride buddy..hang on to your buster browns" it could happen?

LOL This is what you coulda made dirtbag!!!

We need pics of exactly what you guys are seeing. I can't visualize what's going on.

I can not only visualize it but I've been experiencing a banging from the drivers side rear when the car shifts harshly (Shift Kit) under heavy acceleration.
I could swear it was the exhaust banging under the left rear of the car, but after inspecting and trying to move the exhaust through its range I couldn't make it hit anything.
Let me regress a bit and say that it felt like a rear wheel drive car making a harsh banging noise in the driveline. Sometimes noises and the feeling you get from something banging on the undercarriage isn't always where you think it's coming from.
So after looking closely at everything in the rear i moved my attention to front/rear engine mounts thinking a bad one could be the culprit, but could not find a bad enough one to to cause a metal to metal bang.
I've been waiting to get my trans shift pressures adjusted, but now know to also look at the rear subframe more closely and figure out a way to limit movement before installing a rear sway bar. I'll await input on what others have found on the subframe issue also, be curious to see what you all come up. In the mean time I'll try to come with my own plan to limit the movement and maybe we can share ideas on how to correct or change the original design.

I believe the discussion is regarding #18 and #19...

yup that be the little bugger. # 20 is the r.s.s.a #18 is the forward body mounts #19 are the rear body mounts. the r.s.s.a free floats. and the body mounts are along for the ride,the astonishingly horrible little squishy thingies... # 20 is a heavy piece of steel and moves up and down like a seesaw,except that the rear portion of the r.s.s.a is held in place to the chassis by the # 19 mounts through which the trailing links ( #8) are connected. less than a seesaw that point acts more like a fulcrum ...its a weird design that survives for no other reason than to makes things comfy for the passengers. r.s.s.a = squirely handling... and will make anyone crap theire pants at the autocross.... say, ewolfe, what do make of this design?

well.. I don't think a die hard autocrosser would like the Riv's suspension let alone it being a front wheel drive but it does very well for me. As a daily driver I do not know if I would want it any firmer than what I have. I would like to make up some poly mounts to see what that would do. I have an entire back section of a Riv in my garage and have been thinking about improvements I could make. #8 needs to be stronger ( solid tubing ), #18 and #19 could be mady from poly with no problems, and the rubber bushings for the control arm and #8 could probably be found in Energy Suspension catalog under another application.

If the banks finally start lending again, I could sell a couple of my aircraft and start on my independent Corvette rearend, swap in a stick, and finally get the motor facing the right way... then she will be a good autocrosser!

How are you going to route the exhaust if you have a driveshaft going down the center of the car?

If you're that adventuresome why not bolt up an electric motor to the Vette rear and run it off some lithium batteries? Then you've got an AWD car.

I'm serious! I've been flying electric R/C helicopters and the way the cost of Chinese LiPo batteries is dropping is unbelievable.

a properly set up front drive car can have very good succes if set up properly. the front drive SCCA class of acuras have done very well in the past. im not up to date on whats going on now but with honda backing the program podiums are not foreign to them.....

ive just swaped the front frame assembly stock mounts for the pucks. it was a fairly easy swap. there is no complicated system for the front so no problems encountered with the transplant. only had time to do the front of the frame assembly,will do the rear portion of the same tomorow. took it for a small test drive and all is well. no rattles. no squeking,no funky up and down of anything. take the doughnuts out,put pucks in,tighen down. simple. makes a tight difference. i took pics but i cant figure out how to down load them here. any body out there wanna teach a amateur how to?

You must post pic's. Try reading in the FAQ section, I think it is in there.
I've only done it once before. Had to upload elsewhere and transfer to here.
Not difficult, just don't remember.

anyway..ive replaced the mounts. the 2 pucks weigh 14 oz with washers. each stock mount weighs 1.3/4 lb..big difference. ive signed into flicker and cant seem to upload these pics...any ideas guys?

Try: www.photobucket.com?

If you can't get either to work, send 'em to me and I'll host them.