ZZP 1.9:1 Ratio Modified Rockers

Has anyone installed ZZP's 1.9:1 modified rockers on there car with stock cam?
The reason I ask is i did yesterday and installed 105# springs along with new Viton valve seals and attempted to install ZZP's steel modified spring retainers.
I thought these retainers were necessary with the rocker and spring combination.
But I found after installing the first pair and when rotating crank to next cylinder the modified rockers contacted / hit the modified retainers.
So I removed the modified retainers and installed the OEM retainers and finished the job.
My question is, Am I going to have a problem using stock retainers on the 105# springs or has someone already done this without any issues.
Any feedback will be greatly appreciated as I am a bit apprehensive about running the car this way.
Already emailed Zooomer @ ZZP and am waiting a reply.

post on clubgp ASAP.. they will answer your question in minutes

Better yet, someone find the info and post it here so we have it for future reference. The stock retainers won't hurt to run for a little while. Zoomer will answer your question soon. Let us know what he has to say.

Curious, why did you go with the 105# springs? Planning to rev to 6500 RPM?

As long as you have clearance to the retainers, you should be fine. I thought the point of the modified retainers was to increase clearance. You should just call ZZP with your question, forget posting on clubgp.

ZZP's answer:
The mod'd retainers should not be hitting. We've sold probalby 500 sets.
The stock retainers will preload the springs .080 which will drastically reduce spring life and most likely break the stock timing chain dampener quickly.

Zooomer

ZZPerformance.com

I know they are hitting so what the F..K do I do now.
I don't want drive it this way and don't want to go thru all the labor of putting stock springs back in.?

AA wrote:

Curious, why did you go with the 105# springs? Planning to rev to 6500 RPM?

I was able to buy the set off one the other boards with other parts, New for about 50% off and after researching and asking questions i was told they would be fine to use.
Also from ZZP's site:
90# springs are GM LS6 yellow springs*. The LS6 comes from the factory with .550" of lift and spins to 6500 RPM to give an idea of what the springs were made for. Seat pressure is lower than the Comp Cams springs but spring rate is higher so they do work well for aggressive ramp rates. There springs work well with the VS, NIC, or XP cam. Because of the higher spring rate, timing chain dampener life is lower than with the 105's.

Didn't you install the LS6 90# springs? The above statement amongst others led me to believe I was buying the correct spring rate for this application.

The 90# or 105# springs will be fine for you Rick, no worries. It's been discussed before. AA and I are running 90# springs and have been for a loooong time with no noticeable problems. If you are doing anything besides 1.9s or a mild cam, go with the spring recommended by the cam maker.

Derek,
Did your new engine come with roller rockers or did you have to swap?
The reason I ask is if I'm going back in to try and change these retainers, That I Know Are Hitting, I'd rather put in a set of rollers and sell the 1.9 Modified ones. Do you have a set of used rollers I could buy?

Yes, mine were the blue ones, not yellow. There is some difference as I recall. No one really knows which is better for use with 1.9:1 rockers. I think the above statements from ZZP reflect their opinions regarding cams operating above 6k RPM. They say you can run modded rockers with stock springs. I've been using the 90# LS6 springs for 107k miles. I'll take some pics of the timing chain/dampener when I swap it out later this year.

From rocker install write-up:

"Hey guys, I came across something this weekend that is good to know information.

ZZP modified 1.9 rockers. The pedistals are modded for the increased travel as well as the rockers. The issue was the front bank had misfires on all three cylinders. Come to find out before my buddy got the rockers someone mistakenly swapped a pedistal with a stocker. The difference is small, but visible to the eye.

If you install modded rockers and have a full bank issue, check the peds."

I know you read this, but did you double check the pedestals?

So at this point my options are to put the stock springs back in or buy roller rockers.
What a headache I have, not to mention my back needs a couple of days to recover from the work already done.

All I wanted to do was SAFELY lower the SC pulley size.!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, Have read that and double checked Pedestals. No misfires, engine runs smooth with everything the way it is.
But now after reading what Zooomer said i don't want to drive it until I figure out what to do.

I installed zzp 1.9 modifed rockers with stock retainers + 105 springs on my 96. It worked just fine.

Rickw wrote:

Derek,
Did your new engine come with roller rockers or did you have to swap?
The reason I ask is if I'm going back in to try and change these retainers, That I Know Are Hitting, I'd rather put in a set of rollers and sell the 1.9 Modified ones. Do you have a set of used rollers I could buy?

I am getting ready to sell my 1.9 rollers - my new motor has a cam and I'll be sticking with the stock rockers for now. But you should be fine with the stock retainers as long as you don't have any binding or contact.

Zooomer knows his stuff, but I think it is exaggeration to say the .080" preload will cause "drastic" issues to the drivetrain that quickly - I just wonder if he has any proof of this. It's not the best situation, but far better than interference between parts. Maybe take some pictures of the condition you are seeing.

FYI, Zooomer also claims that 90# springs are bad, and that INTENSE doesn't know what they are doing. Also, several of ZZP's products have failed because of negligence on his part. Just saying, ZZP didn't write the gospel on 3800 powered vehicles.

How much for the Rollers?
Did you read Zooomers response above about the stock retainers causing premature failure of the chain tensioner as well as an additional .080 preload on the springs that are already about 1/4" taller than stock unsprung.

You can drive it, it's a longevity issue he's talking about with the extra spring load. I would put the issue on ZZP at this point - it's their rockers and springs, and their retainers should work... Do their modified retainers come with a special keeper?

No special keepers, but I bought new ones and used them for the heck of it. They are cheap enough.
What about your Rockers? Do you want to sell them to me.?

Rickw wrote:

How much for the Rollers?

I haven't decided yet. Unfortunately I can't give them away, I need the money these days...

I have Money. Didn't expect them for free.

Rickw wrote:

No special keepers, but I bought new ones and used them for the heck of it. They are cheap enough.

interesting. When I did my rockers and springs I used comp cams retainers and keepers, and they were slightly different than stock.

Rickw wrote:

I have Money. Didn't expect them for free.

I know I know, it's not just you either. A lot of people on the local boards want them too. I just want to make sure my new engine is solid before I sell anything...

Well I bought the keepers from him and they were a Comp Cam product but didn't really look closely at any differences.
They fit just fine and had no problem installing them.

I used my stock keepers with the LS6 90# valve spring retainers.

I'm going to take short break from this job and then remove the front valve cover and start taking some exact measurements. Such as the thickness and profile of the stock retainer compared to the so called Modified ones and see what i come up with.
If I have to grind the tops of the modified ones by X # of thousandths then I'll bring them to a machine shop in NH where I have access to all the necessary precision grinding machines and lathes.

Quote :

I was able to buy the set off one the other boards with other parts, New for about 50% off and after researching and asking questions i was told they would be fine to use.

Are you absolutely sure these are in fact 105# CC Springs?