FAQ: Rust Areas & Concerns

OK. Not knowing an engine cradle from a baby cradle, can someone explain to me where to look? And what tilt wheel issue? This car has sat on this lot since spring, based on the lack of foliage on the trees in the pics. it is a small lot in a small town, so it might just be lack of buyers, but it may be something others see that I don't. So I want to be sure. Any help is appreciated.

Lay down on your back, crawl under the front of the car and look for a metal frame. Tap it with a wrench or something to check to make sure its solid. As for the tilt wheel thing, Grab the wheel, try to shake it from top right to bottom left. If it feels tight, youre good. If there is excessive movement, its really not that hard of a fix.

With the car on a lift it will be obvious.  The engine in bolted into something like a sub-frame and that sub-frame is bolted to the chassis.  On a lift it's easy to see.  Look for rust around anyplace that can trap dirt, sand, salt, or other crud that will allow rust to form if not kept clean especially where pieces are bolted together.  You'll see the rust, flaked paint, corroded metal, etc.  

This link is to an ebay listing showing an engine cradle.  It's not for a Riviera, but it is for a Buick; you'll get the idea.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/00-BUICK-LESABRE-Engine-Crossmember-Front-cradle-/390414925830?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5ae68b0006&vxp=mtr

Yardley wrote:

So, the whole cradle goes bad? The metal frame area? Or just the mounts? And is it a rust issue?

It is a rust issue Yards, and if it is that bad, it will be very obvious if you take a good look at the car. Make sure you inspect the rear brake lines. My cradle was fine, but the rear 4 mounts were a bit corroded. I replaced them up at Readers Digest when we installed the sway bars. My back brake lines were scary, replaced them at the same time.

Anyone who will buying a Riv from the states who use salt, please check your fuel tank lock ring area for the fuel pump. I live in the midwest-Minnesota (Salt).
Pull back the trunk carpet on the passenger side, remove a small access panel to see the top of the fuel pump. you will see a lock-ring holding the fuel pump down sealing it on the fuel tank. It sits on top, but in a depression which can hold water and salt. Not good. If your fuel pump never goes out - no worry then, but if it does....
The car stalled and quit an hour away one morning the wife was going to work. The mechanic scanned, checked, and said the fuel pump went out, and surprise, in looking the lock ring was very, very rusty. The huge problem was the lock tabs on the plastic/nylon fuel tank were very bad. If I remember right, there were 5, and 3 were rusted out. The gas tank was worthless without good tabs. Besides a fuel pump, the big issue then was finding a fuel tank w/o the lock tabs rusted out. Guess what, the tank is discontinued from GM, and no one makes a replacement. Have fun finding a good one! Finally found one in Utah. We found water in my gas tank, rust, the fuel filter was shot. its really amazing the car even ran. It was the fuel pump that finally died. Also dropping the tank is not an easy job as some say. Wow, If I had only checked that area, I would have walked away from this car, and have an extra thousand in my pocket today, and a few less gray hairs. Just beware my friends, it hides quietly under the carpet.

Volume 47, Number 7 "BUICK Bugle" November 2012, page 13, LETTERS to the editor,  reads:

"Pete,
I read with great interest the warning about rusted subframes on Riviera, laSabre and Park Avenue models. I'm surprised the Buick Regal was not included. Two years ago our 1998 Regal with 98,000 miles began making strange sounds when backing out the driveway and turning the wheels. It also felt strange when driving. When the car was put on a lift to check things out it was discovered the subframe behind the engine had totally rusted through as was a wreck waiting to happen. We were told it would cost thousands of dollars to fix, so within a week we had a new car. We were told it was the air conditioner drain water that caused the problem, probably aided by the sald on Wisconsin roads. Please alert "Bugle" readers that Regals also face this serious and dangerous problem.
Thanks Eric M. Bloc, BCA  #1373"
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Does anyone here (RP) have access to the referenced "Bugle" editors warning article about subframe rust? Original notice warning may have been in the September or October 2012 edition?? (I'm not a BCA subscriber and the Nov 2012 copy was just a chance find on a used mag rack)
I'd be most interested in what it says and I might add I've noticed considerable water condensation puddles following air conditioning use. Is there a preventative measure or mod that can eliminate or minimize this apparent issue?

Imo, water itself isn't really dangerous to the undersides of a car. Salt and saltwater is the issue. I spray underneath my Riviera with a high pressure hose after driving over salted roads and there is very little rust after 10 winters. I won't say zero rust, but when I pulled the subframe a couple years ago it was solid. I don't buy into the air conditioning drip water causing the subframe to rust out. All cars drip water from AC. It can't be any more dangerous than driving in the rain.

One thing that can cause rust is dragging the underside of the car over terrain, such as curbs, parking stops or other debris. Also gravel, salt and rocks on the roads. When these types of objects hit and scrape off the undercoating, the exposed metal can be attacked by salt, water, and dirt.

AA wrote:

Imo, water itself isn't really dangerous to the undersides of a car. Salt and saltwater is the issue". ..... "All cars drip water from AC. It can't be any more dangerous than driving in the rain".

Thanks Aaron and I share your opinion and practice of spraying the undercarriage frequently. I am not experiencing any subframe rust or for that matter, rust of any nature on my 95. I remain curious as to what Pete Phillips, the editor of "The Buick Bugle" put to writing and his basis for it.

Was hoping someone here @ RP, belonging to the BCA could review their retained 2012 copies and quote the original content, context, and basis or bias of said "warning". Maybe I'll route a PM to Brian (Centurion) asking him if he could find it himself or know just the person to ask. Thanks again AA for the response and admining this site.

Been looking for a mysterious clunk and after major surgery on the strut towers, the frame where the cradle bolts to was completely rotted away! Wow. After almost two years of mechanics looking at this car no one saw this until now. In any case, part of a 1981 Gravely mower deck is now part of my new frame! My neighbor, mechanic is an artist! Welded and rebuilt the entire section. I know anyone who buys this car is getting a TANK! We're going to weld a few more pieces in the back as well. In the meantime this car drives amazing now. Forgot how awesome this thing drives.


Subframe Bolt floppin around!

Tower work!

Gravely Orange!

Right in front of RSSA

All Better now!

OK guys I just found some rust on the passenger side rear jack point, right in front of the rear wheel. I pulled up on the plastic panel and all this sand and rust poured out..now I'm scared big chunks too. What can I do to stop this process?? Where else should I look for rust I know engine cradle also

Pics please

2nd pic is my jack point it's a little dark I just took it, I think I'll have to por-15 all these areas

I decided I should probably pull the plastic cover off in the left rear wheel well and see what it looked like inside.  I'm glad I did this, because holy crap was it filled with junk.  I ended up using a screw driver to scrape it up and then sucked it out with a shop vac little by little because it was so packed in.  I'm guessing this had never been done before and what I sucked up had been collecting since 1997.  I'm sure after driving in the rain this would stay wet for days afterward.












So if you haven't ever looked behind the cover in your left rear wheel well, you might want to take a peak and see what it looks like inside.

Yup, mine is a lot worse than that. Northeast road salt winters. I wire brushed it and hit it with rust converter. Just trying to limit the future damage. It is why the top of the fuel tank rots (locking tabs for the fuel pump)

I'd say keep an eye on your subframe and rear shock area where the shocks mount to the car

chitown_riv98 wrote:

I'd say keep an eye on your subframe and rear shock area where the shocks mount to the car

I just replaced my rear subframe and rebuilt the spring perches.

WHile looking for other things on the net this morning I came across this link

http://www.saltawayproducts.com/How%20Salt-Away%20Works.htm

It has what seems to be a good report on how salt works in causing corrosion and how a water-borne cleaner/inhibitor works to solve that problem.

I'd like to know what those of you who are knowledgeable think of this -- looks like analytical chemistry to me -- and would you mind posting comments? I mean, it sounds sensible to me. Might give it a try.

Albertj

Interesting. Hope someone here has personal experience with Salt-Away. I did a quick research and I found out that this product is quite popular among boat owners.