never heard of this before... any thoughts

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2594693/2

i was looking at rivs on cardomain for ideas and wisdom and I came across this...
I haven't really heard of this type of intercooling. Some of the stuff this guy said is blasphemy so I dunno. Anyone have experience with this?

turtleman wrote:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2594693/2

i was looking at rivs on cardomain for ideas and wisdom and I came across this...
I haven't really heard of this type of intercooling. Some of the stuff this guy said is blasphemy so I dunno. Anyone have experience with this?

When I had a Kenne bell on a 5.0. that was the only way to cool the charge. I sold that car before I tried the kit. I would think that you could activate the injection at 6 lbs and it would cool the charge enought to prevent knock. Nothing works without tuning. Remember that you still need fuel if you are upping the boost so you would still need a way to tune.

This is somewhere in between water injection and N2O, imo. I'm sure the guy means well, but he's got a few of his facts mixed up. Plate ICs do work, and they don't cost $2200. The idea they restrict air is an acceptable loss considering the temperature drop you get (kind of like how it's acceptable to waste 50 hp driving the blower). Nowhere does he mention dropping SC pulley size, so his idea wouldn't get him that much power. Gotta up the boost...

Someone ought to invite him to our site. Seems like he might fit in, and I'd like to learn more about this boost cooler idea, maybe help him on the other stuff.

I did invite him.
Dennis don't you have alky on your TRs? this is essentially what he has.

AA wrote:

This is somewhere in between water injection and N2O, imo. I'm sure the guy means well, but he's got a few of his facts mixed up. Plate ICs do work, and they don't cost $2200. The idea they restrict air is an acceptable loss considering the temperature drop you get (kind of like how it's acceptable to waste 50 hp driving the blower). Nowhere does he mention dropping SC pulley size, so his idea wouldn't get him that much power. Gotta up the boost...

Someone ought to invite him to our site. Seems like he might fit in, and I'd like to learn more about this boost cooler idea, maybe help him on the other stuff.

50hp for our blower? So it soaks 50 but adds 75 then?

That seems high!

From Wikipedia:

"Positive displacement (Roots) superchargers may absorb as much as a third of the total crankshaft power of the engine..."

When you consider how much parasitic loss a blower has, it's not so hard to understand how a turbo can double an engine's horsepower. Much lower loss.

Don't remember where I heard 50, but it's not too far off... takes a lot of power to keep 6-10 PSI on an engine sucking in 30-40 lbs of air per minute!!!

Jason wrote:

I did invite him.
Dennis don't you have alky on your TRs? this is essentially what he has.

No alky, I just use good fuel.

snow performance recently registered over at turbobuicks.com. There are very few people running the kit and the only comment I have heard was negative.

AA wrote:

From Wikipedia:

"Positive displacement (Roots) superchargers may absorb as much as a third of the total crankshaft power of the engine..."

When you consider how much parasitic loss a blower has, it's not so hard to understand how a turbo can double an engine's horsepower. Much lower loss.

Don't remember where I heard 50, but it's not too far off... takes a lot of power to keep 6-10 PSI on an engine sucking in 30-40 lbs of air per minute!!!

I know they soak some power, but my goodness! I guess that makes sense. So what is the gross power output of our s/c around 75hp? The net like 25hp or something?

It all depends on SC pulley size and a few other factors. A 3.8L N/A has 9.4:1 compression ratio and makes 205 hp, so the SC version with 8.5:1 would make less... I'm going to guess 190 hp without the blower.

According to Eaton, the M90 uses 45-50 hp to build 10 PSI. A stock engine builds 6-8 PSI, so we'll say only 40 hp is lost to the blower. The engine would now have 150 hp, so the actual gain from supercharging would need to be about 90 hp. Maybe that's why they call it the M"90", lol!

When you use smaller SC pulley sizes, the parasitic loss gets higher. At 12 PSI you could figure 55-60 hp lost, so your pre-supercharged hp would now be 130-140. Since you can't really run this kind of force through a stock 3800 without other mods, you can't credit the blower for the entire gain, but it plays a large part. Together with the other mods, we can assume it's possible to add at least 200 hp through supercharging.

i heard with the m90 any psi over 15-16 take more hp to run than it gives! due to the heat created, that's why twin screw blowers are so cool!
but the whipple (a twin screw) doesnt make as much power at 6-7psi as the M90. so the m90 is a better choice for the daily driver and stock car.

That's somewhat true. It'll give you lots of knock, but if you could cool that hot air (w/ intercooler), the results would be different. I'd think you'd still see gains up in that range, though not as much.

Btw, at cruising speeds, the M90 requires less than a single hp to spin. It's like it's not even there when you aren't using it!

which is why us s/c guys get almost the same mpg as the na guys, provided we keep out of boost.
it funny how many people go "i bet that sucks gas" when i mention its supercharged. but then again most people thinks it a V8 too