Parking heaters, Webasto/Eberspächer etc.

Do you guys and gals have some kind of fuel powered parking heater on your cars?

Even though those are quite expensive, they're great help if you, like me, doesn't have possibilities to use electric heaters.
Installation seems to be time consuming, because those require independent fuel line from fuel tank to engine bay. It cannot suck through fuel pump, I think.

Still -15°C here, true Winter Wonderland!

In general, it doesn't get that cold here in the US, with some exceptions (North Dakota, Minnesota). I had no problem starting my car in -20F temps, but if I had to do it all the time I'd look into a heater system.

-15C is only 5deg F, that's not very cold in winter, and certainly not found only in ND/MN... Jari, if you're using a synthetic oil, preferably something like 5W30 or 0W30, you really don't need to be plugged in to start easily in those temps. Our winter temps "can" reach into the -20's F, but it doesn't happen very often. Last week we did hit -30F overnight once. But that's pretty uncommon. It is more common in the MN great lakes region though.

Reminds me of a news blurb on TV this morning. The MN dept of tourism had someone call them regarding a trip to MN in July. They asked if they could rent a snowmobile...

BTW, I've never heard of such a heater system before. I don't even have plug-in heaters on the Riv or our van.

The only place I've seen them used are on small aircraft, to be used either as a cabin heater during flight or pre-heater for the cabin on the ground. They aren't cheap and in my opinion they aren't safe.
They have been the source of many fires.
Have also seen them on 1940's vintage DC-3's,
Also prone to cabin fires.

Takes my car like 45 seconds of turning over to start.. than it dies... than i try again... it was only -10 out yesterday too....

Dangerous? Not in my opinion. I've hardly ever heard about car fires caused by heaters.
These are quite common in Europe and Webasto and Eberspächer are big (german) names on the market.

The system is simple: heater is used to heat coolant and it uses its own water pump to run it through engine. When coolant is warm enough, heater starts to use car's own heater/climate system to blow warm air into cabin.
There are of course air warmers but those are used in minivans and buses.

Car owners here have been told to use parking heater or heater plugs every time temperature drops below +5°C. It helps to save engine, because every cold start corresponds to driving 300 miles, and of course warm engine gives better gas mileage (and helps to reduce CO2, if you're interested in those things).

I am not marketing any of those names, but you can check about those systems.

http://www.parkingheater.com/
http://www.eberspacher.com/products/water-heating/

I'm an airplane fanatic, and those systems are not like on older planes.

Eberspächer even made heaters for aircooled VW Beetles and Buses. Those simply blew warm air into cabin and did'nt use water as carrier for obvious reasons.

98riviera98 wrote:

Takes my car like 45 seconds of turning over to start.. than it dies... than i try again... it was only -10 out yesterday too....

Was there ever anything leading up to this? Check things that are easy like fuel filter, spark plugs then look at maybe IAC, CP sensor, or even worst case fuel pump. I would lean towards fuel delivery on this 1. No injected car should take 45 seconds to start if the pump is activating and fuel system is clean.

Yeah, the temp isn't Travis' problem. 20 below zero my Riv starts on 1-2 seconds cranking.

JT Newman wrote:

Dangerous? Not in my opinion. I've hardly ever heard about car fires caused by heaters.
These are quite common in Europe and Webasto and Eberspächer are big (german) names on the market.

The system is simple: heater is used to heat coolant and it uses its own water pump to run it through engine. When coolant is warm enough, heater starts to use car's own heater/climate system to blow warm air into cabin.
There are of course air warmers but those are used in minivans and buses.

Car owners here have been told to use parking heater or heater plugs every time temperature drops below +5°C. It helps to save engine, because every cold start corresponds to driving 300 miles, and of course warm engine gives better gas mileage (and helps to reduce CO2, if you're interested in those things).

I am not marketing any of those names, but you can check about those systems.

http://www.parkingheater.com/
http://www.eberspacher.com/products/water-heating/

I'm an airplane fanatic, and those systems are not like on older planes.

Eberspächer even made heaters for aircooled VW Beetles and Buses. Those simply blew warm air into cabin and did'nt use water as carrier for obvious reasons.

I wasn't suggesting any of those systems were dangerous, only the older ones that I have had experience with.
I haven't looked at these yet, but I am interested to do so.
I guess to answer your original question, I would have to say no, I have never seen these on American cars only the electric block heaters. But what you have linked to is very interesting.

BTW, Are you using Synthetic oil in the winter to help with cold starts.???/

I've started my Riv at -4°F / -20°C at worst, started quite easily. I just changed to 5W40 synthetic.

Couple of weeks ago I asked how much would it cost to install heater on a near shop:

$2400, including work. Bigger engine, bigger heater.

The heater itself costs around $1200 and it takes a weekend if fitted without any hurry.

Hmm, if there aren't anyone from European region with such heater I'll make photo report of installation if I'm buying it.
It would be nice to add GSM receiver to it and start that heater simply by calling.

If you do decide to buy a system and install it, please document and post your results on here.
It would be most interesting. Something new to the American market.

That would be cost-prohibitive in the US, I'm sure, if priced similarly.

I've sometimes used semi-synthetic on my -64 Beetle in the winter to help cold starting, but in this case I just took what I saw on the shelf.
5W40 was only available fully synthetic and I think that engine construction doesn't need mineral oils, or are there reported engine failures when running synthetic?

I was surprised that fuel powered heaters aren't common in the US. What about big rigs?

EDIT: Some car manufacturers add heater already at factory, especially to modern power diesels, because those don't give enough excess heat which is used to heat cabin.
I've seen it on modern diesel Volkswagens, BMW:s and Volvos: temperature starts to drop at idle very fast on cold climate and when driving short distances those cars never reach optimal engine temperature!

When buying $30-50 000 new car that extra $2000-2500 isn't so much if heater isn't already installed.

Jari, the Riv should be running 5w30 oil in the winters. Is there a reason you use 5w40?

My mom had a gasoline powered interior heater in her VW Microbus in the '60's. She could leave it on when she made stops (she was a social worker),..and the van would be nice and toasty when she got back in it.


The units that pre-heat the engine are a great idea. Even a 5W30 oil is really more like a 80 weight when it's -15 F outside. Extremely poor lubrication for the first minute or two.

With a heater like that and an engine pre-oiler installed,...there's no reason for any engine to go less than a miliion miles between rebuilds.

Pre-oilers pump oil into the engine when you turn on the ignition. You just wait until you see the oil pressure light go off or the guage start to move before starting the engine. Should only be a couple seconds.

Like this one for $180.
http://www.engineprelube.com/

If you use one of those,... and make the oil change guy pre fill the oil filter when you go for an oil change,...and engine should WAY outlast the car it's in.

But then there's the question,....do you want that to happen? Is there any value in sending worn-out cars to the junkyard with a great engines in them?

wow duckstu! thats way cheaper than accusump oilers. this is an item that i have plans to buy...

JT Newman wrote:

Car owners here have been told to use parking heater or heater plugs every time temperature drops below +5°C. It helps to save engine, because every cold start corresponds to driving 300 miles, and of course warm engine gives better gas mileage (and helps to reduce CO2, if you're interested in those things).

CAA Quebec also just amended their recommendation of plugging in your car at temps of -15C or colder (IIRC) to 0C. Finland probably uses a lot of hydroelectricity, but I think in general the emissions created by the energy generation it takes to plug in a block heater would offset the benefits at that high a temperature.

If your car has K05 on the SPID you have a block heater. Use a timer to have it turn on about 3h before using. The riviera does not require XW40 weight oil. I run german castrol syntec 0W30 in the winter and have been very satisfied. The "30" of this oil is closer to actual 30, whereas other almost all other XW30 weight oils in North America are closer to XW20. If you have a LOT of time to spare, you can check out bob is the oil guy (BITOG) for more info.

1998 Riv wrote:

Yeah, the temp isn't Travis' problem. 20 below zero my Riv starts on 1-2 seconds cranking.

yea same here starts right up. travis's car is just a pile

I like the concept of the Pre Lube System.
I've got a friend who owns a twin turbo Audi and is anal about allowing the engine to idle for a certain amount of time before turning it off to allow the Turbo's and Bearings to cool down. One of the major ways to extend the life of a Turbocharger.
I printed out the kit for the Turbo set up that has 2 accumulators, one for start up and other that pumps it's cooler oil after shut down.
I'll bet he'll like this idea.

Heck, the guy that lets me use his shop + lift from time to time works on mostly Audi's, VW, BMW's, Mercedes's, etc. ( He loves the Riv.. Told me he was very impressed after the first time he had a good look at it from underneath, under the hood and test driving it. From all the technology that is in a 98 American Car and so on. He told me if I mention that he said that to anyone local he'd have to kill me. Being a foreign car guy and all.)
I'll bet some of his Turbocharged customers would be interested. I'll have to see if I can get him to be signed as a Dealer/Distributor and get one myself at dealer cost.

Besides the cost, I should think that fitting it under the Riviera's hood and connecting it to the heater hoses would be a [ahem] challenge...
For the price, and size, I'd look into a remote starter. They have a timer that shuts them down after X minutes, so you could fire it once when you go to bed, to keep the engine from getting too cold, and again when you get up for your comfort when you get in the car. It also has the advantage of pre-cooling the car in summer with the A/C...

JT Newman wrote:

I've started my Riv at -4°F / -20°C at worst, started quite easily. I just changed to 5W40 synthetic.

Couple of weeks ago I asked how much would it cost to install heater on a near shop:

$2400, including work. Bigger engine, bigger heater.

The heater itself costs around $1200 and it takes a weekend if fitted without any hurry.

Hmm, if there aren't anyone from European region with such heater I'll make photo report of installation if I'm buying it.
It would be nice to add GSM receiver to it and start that heater simply by calling.

Jari get ur car ower here and i install it on weekend.

usa cars do not have it? strange...uno's dodge ram 3500 had one on it from factory...but it broke down and whe changed it whit a brand new webasto.

i would want one on my car tho.
They are great..you can remotly just start the heater or program it to start on 3 diferent times.


i have started the riv whit -22C..(i have used on all my cars TM magazine test winner oil whti 5 stars. Deboil Diamond Full syntetic 5w/40 and change after every 10k km)
whit the heater i can just sit into a warm car on morning, no worryes about cleanign the car of snow and ice.
saves alot fuel/engine.

hmmm the plug in heaters like jari sayd are very common in finland. allmost every car has them and on every work place there are those plug posts where you connect the cars heater wire.

luckly i have a garage at my appartment whit 22C in it

palermocorey90 wrote:

1998 Riv wrote:

Yeah, the temp isn't Travis' problem. 20 below zero my Riv starts on 1-2 seconds cranking.

yea same here starts right up. travis's car is just a pile

E85 is tough to ignite